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AFLW 2024 - Round 4 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Why is Cyril Rioli so highly rated?
- Thread starter HappyChappy35
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Alright, I agree with the haters that it would be great if he got more possessions. I cannot imagine the damage he would do if he got it 30 times a week, week in week out. It would not be fair.
Cyril is one of the most dangerous players in the AFL, and unlike a lot of others he is massively dangerous both defensively and offensively, and specialises in doing his best work in congested spaces.
People who say he doesn't get it enough are really saying he doesn't run to space to receive it enough. That is not Cyril's game. I much prefer Cyril being in the thick of it when the guy who did run to space kicks it to a contest, because that guy cannot do what Cyril does.
Cyril is one of the most dangerous players in the AFL, and unlike a lot of others he is massively dangerous both defensively and offensively, and specialises in doing his best work in congested spaces.
People who say he doesn't get it enough are really saying he doesn't run to space to receive it enough. That is not Cyril's game. I much prefer Cyril being in the thick of it when the guy who did run to space kicks it to a contest, because that guy cannot do what Cyril does.
DapperDon
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This subject has officially gone past the "top 10 players" threads.
Along with Nic Nat the most underrated player by fans in the AFL.
People on here should also read the AFL methodology for their rankings it will explain a lot and you might stop embarrassing yourselves.
People on here should also read the AFL methodology for their rankings it will explain a lot and you might stop embarrassing yourselves.
- Banned
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If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
Huge overstatement with Selwood, Cotchin, Pendlebury, Murphy, Watson and others established gun mids.
Don't think you'd find many sides who would take Rioli the full time mid ahead of Franklin.
Upgrayedd
A Vote for Clive is a Vote for Justice
Pretty much, Untill he can develop the aerobic ability he'll stay up forward.
Rioli is a very unique player.
His extreme athleticism/agility allows him to do things that I've not seen anyone else do. Specifically, it is his explosive, short twitch muscles that see him change direction, spring off the ground and go from stationary to full speed almost instaneously. This makes him incredibly hard to beat 1 on 1 and sees many opponents hang onto him when the ball is in the vicinity (usually unpenalised) to curb his ability to get away (Rioli now paddles the ball to advantage a lot to counter this). It makes him a very good contested player and develops a good highlight reel that unfortunately, commentators can go overboard with.
The downside of these types of muscles are they are not built for sustained exertion or endurance. As such, Rioli will do a few highlights, go quiet, do a few more and so on. Hawthorn staff became aware of this and tried to adjust his composition, even altering his running style. It was ineffective. Now, he gets called to the bench anytime he has exerted himself repeatedly in a short space and after most of his goals. The instances where he has been left on, he rests deep or he gets injured (usually his hamstring). This makes him inconsistent.
As to why he is rated so highly (in the player ratings) - they have said it is highly correlatted to score involvements. Aside from the goals Rioli kicks, he gets a lot of assists and his defensive pressure and tackling lead to many goals that aren't traditionally credited to him in any statistical measure. Whilst many players apply defensive pressure, you have to attend Hawthorn games to fully appreciate how much opposition play is broken down through the pressure (implied or otherwise) that Rioli applies. Otherwise, I have no idea.
Do I think he is top 5 or top 10? No - his inconsistency does not allow him to be.
Top 20-30? Absolutely, his brilliance with and without the ball is too damaging not to be around this mark.
For those suggesting he is not the best small forward - I think he is and many others would agree.
His extreme athleticism/agility allows him to do things that I've not seen anyone else do. Specifically, it is his explosive, short twitch muscles that see him change direction, spring off the ground and go from stationary to full speed almost instaneously. This makes him incredibly hard to beat 1 on 1 and sees many opponents hang onto him when the ball is in the vicinity (usually unpenalised) to curb his ability to get away (Rioli now paddles the ball to advantage a lot to counter this). It makes him a very good contested player and develops a good highlight reel that unfortunately, commentators can go overboard with.
The downside of these types of muscles are they are not built for sustained exertion or endurance. As such, Rioli will do a few highlights, go quiet, do a few more and so on. Hawthorn staff became aware of this and tried to adjust his composition, even altering his running style. It was ineffective. Now, he gets called to the bench anytime he has exerted himself repeatedly in a short space and after most of his goals. The instances where he has been left on, he rests deep or he gets injured (usually his hamstring). This makes him inconsistent.
As to why he is rated so highly (in the player ratings) - they have said it is highly correlatted to score involvements. Aside from the goals Rioli kicks, he gets a lot of assists and his defensive pressure and tackling lead to many goals that aren't traditionally credited to him in any statistical measure. Whilst many players apply defensive pressure, you have to attend Hawthorn games to fully appreciate how much opposition play is broken down through the pressure (implied or otherwise) that Rioli applies. Otherwise, I have no idea.
Do I think he is top 5 or top 10? No - his inconsistency does not allow him to be.
Top 20-30? Absolutely, his brilliance with and without the ball is too damaging not to be around this mark.
For those suggesting he is not the best small forward - I think he is and many others would agree.
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- #60
Rioli has been the best small forward in the comp for a while now.
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romeoh
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Not top 5 but really fun to watch and can be a game winner. It's not Rioli's fault that the commentators are stupid about him eg 'only Cyril could do that' type of comment. Sometime they have a point, but often it is something quite a few other players can do.
This is the thing though - all we do is place midfielders on this massive pedestal as though they are clearly the best players in the league and unless you get 30 touches a week you have no right to be considered even close to their level.
If I asked you to name your best 5 midfielders, I could name another 5 that are so close to their equal we would be splitting hairs to separate them (except maybe Ablett). I reckon I could even do a pretty good job if I let you have the first 10.
This whole notion that unless you get the right number in the stats box is ridiculous.
And when was the last time a small forward was top 5 in the whole competition?
He's a small forward because he doesn't have the engine to play midfield.
Of course the stuff he does in bursts are awesome. But playing in bursts just aint going to get you into the top 5 players in the comp in my book.
Very good post, the bit about fast twitch fibres etc is quite relevant. People see extraordinary billiance, they raise expectations, then sometimes get disappointed. Extraordinary brilliance doesn't work that way.
In reference to the quoted part, I think his 'wide bell curve of performance' (nicer word than inconsistency
) is why his ranking in the game is so hotly debated.I mentioned earlier he would be among the first picked each week for the Hawks. I dare say he's also among the first that plans are made for by opposition each week too.
- Sep 22, 2000
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Doesn't have a B'n'F so under your theory it makes him highly overrated
Fair call.
Rioli 5th ranked and you face palm.
He's not in Hawthorns top 5. Fair thread, good thread.
Agree with this.
Maybe question the webpage you linked to. I cant think of anywhere else he si rated top 5
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- #70
Has the engine, just not the hamstrings. It's similar to what Adam Cooney has experienced with his knee. He had/has a chronic knee condition which wouldn't allow him to play in the middle. Rioli has a similar problem, but with hamstrings.
It's just the whole vibe of his game.....
I think that if they're going to publish a midfielder's ranking system, then just order it by Brownlow votes...... Umpires at least know what a defender and a forward are, even they can't judge free kicks when they come together...
Last I looked, forwards kick goals that win games, and defenders prevent goals to win games. WHy they are so under-rated in these ranking systems beggars belief.
Last I looked, forwards kick goals that win games, and defenders prevent goals to win games. WHy they are so under-rated in these ranking systems beggars belief.
heh
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I must admit to knowing jack about stats or that, but Cyril can be a match winner, often, I think that would be just as important as consistently getting the stats.
- Banned
- #74
No, just impacted by injury. Will miss another 8 games at least this season, hard to win a BnF from that far back. I guess if you're referring to Bartel, who rarely misses games or is often 1st or equal second in most games played in various seasons in his prime, well it's obvious that Bartel should've won at least one by now under those conditions.
Brent harvey and nicnat are also in the list. Cyrils now injured
What iS the list ?
What iS the list ?
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