Will Soccer ever take over AFL?

[Dont be a lemon]

I think the popularity of soccer, particularly the national team, will continue to grow here and that's certainly a good thing. I can't foresee a point in my lifetime though where soccer overtakes Australian rules, at least on a head-to-head level (club comp v club comp run in the same seasons).

What kinds of crowds to they get at the soccer? Collingwood gets more at training.

Trust a Collingwood bogan to talk some absolute shit

 

[Copernicus]

You can argue all you like, but until they are playing more than 3rd tier soccer over here, it will never overtake Aussie Rules. People want to have direct access to a fantastic sport played at its highest level, and in Melbourne we get it in droves with AFL.

But it's the world game - the world game.

Just keep on repeating that mantra and eventually soccer will take over Aussie Rules

 

[realfootball]

This foreign game will never gain a soccerhold in this country. Too pansy and boring.

This 'foreign' game will never get a foothold in NSW or QLD, too much scoring = boring and 4 goalposts

 

[harmesy 37]

The more I travel to America and see how sport operates over there the more I am confident that Australian Rules Football position in this country is unassailable - there are definite parallels to USA and American Football.


If anything - the other sports should fear the growth of Australian Rules.



There are a lot of people in the US that play soccer, as there probably will be here in Australia, but the game that captures the imagination in both countries is their national game. The AFL grand final is the equivalent of the Superbowl.


We are following the American model in many ways.

 

[Copernicus]

This 'foreign' game will never get a foothold in NSW or QLD, too much scoring = boring and 4 goalposts

What the hell does four goalposts have to do with anything?

The scoring thing is a bit of a furphy for mine- who cares how much gets scored, it hardly makes it boring whether it's low-scoring soccer or high-scoring footy. Different games score differently, I can appreciate either type.

 

[realfootball]

What the hell does four goalposts have to do with anything?

The scoring thing is a bit of a furphy for mine- who cares how much gets scored, it hardly makes it boring whether it's low-scoring soccer or high-scoring footy. Different games score differently, I can appreciate either type.

It's exactly my point. 4 goalposts doesn't mean anything, and it's the same for soccer being 'boring'. Anyone can come up with an idea, no matter how silly and subjective it is, as to why a game is 'no good'

 

[Fino]

Fcuk this debate to hell. It's the same crap over and over and over and over. It's boring.

If you don't like it, cool, don't watch it. But don't come up with unsophisticated and puerile arguments as to why one is more superior than the other.

And FWIW, if you think investing $45 million into the biggest sporting event in the world is a bad idea, then you're an idiot.

 

[3kzisfootball]

I am a bit wary of comparing us with the USA.

My understanding (and I am happy to be corrected) is that Americans are a bit more insular than Australians. And they can be as the most powerful western nation on earth. I mean, how can they name a domestic baseball competition (OK Canada as well...) 'World Series'?

So they don't really care about being noticed overseas because they are already all the time (too much sometimes).

While for us is different. Australia has always used sport as a way to make ourselves noticed in the world. That is why we always 'punch above our weight' at Olympics.

My understanding was that when Team USA reached the quarterfinals of the 2002 World Cup there was not much of a reaction overall in the USA. Imagine if Australia reached the quarterfinals of a World Cup. There would be a huge interest.

Can I say that while I can understand some AFL fans believing that Association Football is boring (I find cricket excruciating) I would like to disagree strongly to the assertion that Association Football is a 'foreign game'

Of course it is. But then so is Rugby League and Cricket. Are we dismissing those games because they were developed or codified in the UK as well? Why Association Football gets special treatment?

I find it mildly offensive that Association Football is described as 'foreign' because many of the people playing it may come from Non English Speaking Backgrounds.

So is Marco Bresciano less of an Australian than let's say a 'Ricky Ponting' or a 'Matthew Hayden' because his name is not anglo?

Association Football is as Australian as any sport that was not developed in Australia. As far as I know the only two sports that can claim to be indigenous to our country are Australian Rules Football and Trugo.

 

[realfootball]

crowds down a little for Sydney A-league games? they're barely pulling more than the old NSL clubs. and why is the fourth year of a comp "always a tougth one". Other countries do not have the same problem as the a-league in terms of players leaving: australia has three other football codes where punters can watch the cream of those sports, most countries simply don't have the choice (and when they do, soccer is a poor cousin).
i'm more than happy for soccer to have high participation rates: it's unlikely to translate to professional soccer's dominance, and might teach those who swap to footy to kick off both feet. my kids all play soccer and pay no attention at all to the a-league.
i reckon the sporting landscape won't change all that much: afl, then league, the union and soccer, no matter how much its boosters keep claiming it "has arrived".

Crowds are down for Sydney in comparsion to the club's previous first 3 years.
Other countries clearly have a problem with players leaving, it dilutes the talent pool all over the world with high quality players moving to the UK.Spain etc. Fans do have have choice what they watch in these countires. They don't have to attend a soccer match at all, and can watch the EPL on a TV, or watch another sport. Does the competing sport necessarily have to be 'a football code?' I don't think so. But instead, they LIKE soccer, and the game and it's culture flourishes despite a poorer standard.

the 4th year of thre A-league is tough because of the 'wear off' effect and the need and desire for sustainable future growth. The comparison with the J-league is remarkable. That league professionalised form the amateur league (like the NSL) and in the first 3 years enjoyed a fair amount of hype and success, the next couple of years were lean in terms of crowd and money bleeding. However, the infrastructure continiued to be developed, more teams were entered, and the youth league was nurtured. All very similar to what's happening here. Now, that league is booming.

The question asked was. "will soccer take over AFL"? But you seem to be focusing on just one aspect of this, 'professional standard and attendance at the first grade level'. Soccer to date has higher participation rates across the board, marginally is behind AFL on the level of interest amongst the public, has a well recognised and supported national team and is played nationally.
I really don't know where you get that soccer is behind league and union. The last few sweeney reports if I rmember rightly put it way ahead in level of interest to those two codes. Even the a-leagues attendance average now just sits marginally behind that of R league. In terms of union crowds, domestically those crowds are non-existant. The super 14, the elite union comp, is really an international event, and if we want to talk international crowds, then we can compare the super 14 to the socceroo crowds.

Your kids might play soccer and not pay attention to the a-league. However, with all due respect, do you know for sure that every kid is like this? Will the kids who play soccer in the future also be not interetsed in the a-league in the future? See I reckon most kids who will play soccer in the future will eventually take an interest in the future a-league. Nearly every kid now recognises (and adores) the socceroos, and they are also part of this sport called 'soccer', and yes it has arrived.

 

[kaypee]

Crowds are down for Sydney in comparsion to the club's previous first 3 years.
Other countries clearly have a problem with players leaving, it dilutes the talent pool all over the world with high quality players moving to the UK.Spain etc. Fans do have have choice what they watch in these countires. They don't have to attend a soccer match at all, and can watch the EPL on a TV, or watch another sport. Does the competing sport necessarily have to be 'a football code?' I don't think so. But instead, they LIKE soccer, and the game and it's culture flourishes despite a poorer standard.

the 4th year of thre A-league is tough because of the 'wear off' effect and the need and desire for sustainable future growth. The comparison with the J-league is remarkable. That league professionalised form the amateur league (like the NSL) and in the first 3 years enjoyed a fair amount of hype and success, the next couple of years were lean in terms of crowd and money bleeding. However, the infrastructure continiued to be developed, more teams were entered, and the youth league was nurtured. All very similar to what's happening here. Now, that league is booming.

The question asked was. "will soccer take over AFL"? But you seem to be focusing on just one aspect of this, 'professional standard and attendance at the first grade level'. Soccer to date has higher participation rates across the board, marginally is behind AFL on the level of interest amongst the public, has a well recognised and supported national team and is played nationally.
I really don't know where you get that soccer is behind league and union. The last few sweeney reports if I rmember rightly put it way ahead in level of interest to those two codes. Even the a-leagues attendance average now just sits marginally behind that of R league. In terms of union crowds, domestically those crowds are non-existant. The super 14, the elite union comp, is really an international event, and if we want to talk international crowds, then we can compare the super 14 to the socceroo crowds.

Your kids might play soccer and not pay attention to the a-league. However, with all due respect, do you know for sure that every kid is like this? Will the kids who play soccer in the future also be not interetsed in the a-league in the future? See I reckon most kids who will play soccer in the future will eventually take an interest in the future a-league. Nearly every kid now recognises (and adores) the socceroos, and they are also part of this sport called 'soccer', and yes it has arrived.

i have no idea what other kids do. my point is that kids playing soccer doesn't mean the a-league will be a success and swamp the afl, the point of the thread. american kids play soccer in droves, yet the nfl is by far their most popular sport. i played basketaball in my youth, and have absolutely no interest in the nbl (which was also once claimed to be a sleping giant). the a-league has not arrived. most games pull around 10k, despite absolutely no competition for eyeballs, andd most of their "relentless" expansion appears to trying to get a foothold in provincial centres (much like the NBL). frankly i wish the a-league all the best, but its boosters on foxtel and at fairfax should stop midnlessly carrying on about what a success the league has been - with the exception of mlbourne victory and adelaide, i reckon the whole thing's been fairly disappointing. that's a shame, but that's the fact.
socceroos are great, and they usually watch their games, but their success is entirely independent of the a-league

 

[LightTower4]

I am a bit wary of comparing us with the USA.

My understanding (and I am happy to be corrected) is that Americans are a bit more insular than Australians. And they can be as the most powerful western nation on earth. I mean, how can they name a domestic baseball competition (OK Canada as well...) 'World Series'?

As I understand it, the Seppo domestic baseball comp was originally sponsored by a Newspaper called 'The World' and the name stuck.

 

[The Fireman]

You are the greatest flog on this thread.

Hmmm Abuse...yes you are a sokah fan alright.

AFL will take over the world...Sokkah would have never existed if they had known of Aussie Rules...AFL will expand internationally.

AFL will expand internationally , If you don't think that to be possible then you are not as smart as you say you are.

You may have guessed that I am a fan of both -if you look at my profile anyway- but apart from that, I have the benefit of being reasonably intelligent.

.

hmmm, self recommendation is no commendation.
You are a Sokah fan for sure...would you like to throw a flare at me?

 

[tugga]

Perhaps the thread should be renamed: Will soccer ever OVERTAKE the AFL?

 

[Chuq]

Hmmm Abuse...yes you are a sokah fan alright.

AFL will expand internationally , If you don't think that to be possible then you are not as smart as you say you are.


hmmm, self recommendation is no commendation.
You are a Sokah fan for sure...would you like to throw a flare at me?

With comments like this I expect most of the dual-code fans on this forum will be on eldorado's side.

If you are trying to show that you are intelligent, then sorry to tell you, you are really really bad at it.

 

[mustapha]

AFL will expand internationally , If you don't think that to be possible then you are not as smart as you say you are.

Is it true the Demetriou is organising an Aussie Rules game in Zimbabwe in an attempt to restore order in the region? It could be like the Israel Palestine peace time game that was organised at the Aussie Rules World Cup.

A lot of the conflicts that occur in the world occur because people are bored from watching too much sokah. If they had an exciting spectacle to watch like AFL, there would be no more problems. Look at many wars have happened in Europe. They don't play AFL there.

 

[The Fireman]

With comments like this I expect most of the dual-code fans on this forum will be on eldorado's side.

If you are trying to show that you are intelligent, then sorry to tell you, you are really really bad at it.

If I was trying to show my intelligence would I bother debating with someone like Eldorado?
Maybe you should lighten up, maybe light up a flare

PS Do you try to show that you are intelligent on here?

 

[The Fireman]

Is it true the Demetriou is organising an Aussie Rules game in Zimbabwe in an attempt to restore order in the region? It could be like the Israel Palestine peace time game that was organised at the Aussie Rules World Cup.

A lot of the conflicts that occur in the world occur because people are bored from watching too much sokah. If they had an exciting spectacle to watch like AFL, there would be no more problems. Look at many wars have happened in Europe. They don't play AFL there.

You maybe onto something there, Mustapha, nil all draws will do that.

 

[jerry_did]

football or soccer is the most popular sport in the world. it will keep on growing here in australia imo. i dont think we will get the 2018 wc because the big bucks in europe will get them over the line

Australia is spending more than the european countries on the bid.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

I try and differentiate between participation and specator.

With participation, I have no doubts that soccer will make huge inroads into the AFL, especially at junior level and schools. Many reasons for this, globalisation of sport, single mum families, success of the A league, soccer with good PR, fear of litigation in schools etc etc.

As a spectator sport though, no way will soccer go close to knocking off the AFL. And to be honest, I don't think it wants to or needs to. I am not sure that the two are mutually exclusive. Most people can enjoy both sports. IMO the two codes are not really competing against each other. Well maybe for sponsorship, but not for spectators. Many people will watch both the A league and the AFL.

One of the most boring debates I find is which is the better game. The correct answer is that it is a matter of taste. Some people prefer soccer, some people prefer AFL, there is no right or wrong answer. The only wrong answer is people who say that because so many countries play it, soccer must be the best. Mc Donalds has the most stores in the world, is Mc Donalds the best product?

I am glad that soccer is thriving in Australia. The more choice we can give people with sports watching and sports participation, the better it is IMO. AFL will always be around because it is such a great product. The two can always co exist.

 

[DoggieStyle07]

Each to their own. This is a perpetual arguement. It seems that the unconvertable will sling the same shit arguements around the room until the cows come home. You can tell me that i'm wrong for following the boring evil juggernaut soccer, but really i couldn't care.

I love nearly all sport. The contest, the passion of the crowd, the action, the thrill of victory, the pain of defeat. I like that I could sit down with anyone from anywhere in the world with a beer and discuss either a game of footy, cricket, american football, baseball, basketball, rugby.. hell pretty much any sport.

But personally, soccer is the one that i have recently discovered and from which i derive the most pleasure. The game might be a little less action packed from second to second, but the contest is always absorbing. The result is never guaranteed, it only takes one moment for the game to turn, it can be cruel, it can be exhilarating, it can be frustrating, it can be brilliant. Add to this the beers with mates, the passion, the noise from the fans, the colour and the odd occasion when things feel a little dangerous and i couldn't ask for a better occasion.

Soccer has bought me some of my greatest recent life experinces: the November 05 qualifier, travelling to the world cup in Germany, Victory's 06-07 season and recent trips to Brisbane and Sydney watching Socceroos qualifiers in packed stadiums have all been amazing times.

Hopefully the near future of following MVFC and the National team will take me to games in Japan, Korea, South East Asia, the Middle East and (hopefully) world cups in South Africa and Brazil.

My future following Melbourne Victory is also bright. Melbourne will soon have an amazing boutique stadium where fans will sit on the touchline and the atmosphere from Melbournes amazing north and south ends will be amplified to rival the best of europe. The standard of the A League can only improve with increased competition from new teams and more money flowing into the game.

I am having a great time following the game in this country. At the end of the day it is your choice and Australia's choice to enjoy it with me, or miss out on the fun.

 

[bush_tucker77]

I am a bit wary of comparing us with the USA.

My understanding (and I am happy to be corrected) is that Americans are a bit more insular than Australians. And they can be as the most powerful western nation on earth. I mean, how can they name a domestic baseball competition (OK Canada as well...) 'World Series'?

I thought it was named the world series becuase the worlds best players play in the competition, an thus named the world series, as the team that wins, is in essence the world champions?

I guess that theory would also apply to the winners of the AFL Grand Final. The AFL is the top league in the world and the team that wins would technically be the world champion of australian football, would they not?

 

[DoggieStyle07]

I thought it was named the world series becuase the worlds best players play in the competition, an thus named the world series, as the team that wins, is in essence the world champions?

I guess that theory would also apply to the winners of the AFL Grand Final. The AFL is the top elague in the world and the team that wins would technically be the world champion of australian football, would they not?

The world series was originally named after a new paper called 'the world' that sponsored the series, and the name stuck.

The world series is a best of 7 game playoff between the champions of the American League and the champions of the National League of Major League Baseball (They are acually seperate leagues distinguised by a couple of different rules).

Amercian sports leagues do like to claim that their national champions are world champions, but that is a different matter.

 

[realfootball]

i have no idea what other kids do. my point is that kids playing soccer doesn't mean the a-league will be a success and swamp the afl, the point of the thread. american kids play soccer in droves, yet the nfl is by far their most popular sport. i played basketaball in my youth, and have absolutely no interest in the nbl (which was also once claimed to be a sleping giant). the a-league has not arrived. most games pull around 10k, despite absolutely no competition for eyeballs, andd most of their "relentless" expansion appears to trying to get a foothold in provincial centres (much like the NBL). frankly i wish the a-league all the best, but its boosters on foxtel and at fairfax should stop midnlessly carrying on about what a success the league has been - with the exception of mlbourne victory and adelaide, i reckon the whole thing's been fairly disappointing. that's a shame, but that's the fact.
socceroos are great, and they usually watch their games, but their success is entirely independent of the a-league

I think you'll find that the success is measured by the benchmarks they, the FFA have set themselves. Do you think Lowy and co. are not wise enough to develop sound business plans? In that regard, I think it has been successful.

I really do understand your point with the dichotomy between participating and a successful professional league, and your example with basketball is a good one. However, soccer is a very different kettle of fish surely. The game has a much, much bigger rate of participation than basketball, and has astute business backing. There also is the globalisation aspect to the game, which basketball, although global, is no match for soccer. The FFA board are a formidable business outfit, and no how to win. This may not instantaneously translate into a successful A-league, but the market is there to be developed.
The other thing is just the sheer level of interest in the game, something which basketball never had. Remember there is no FTA TV like basketball had, and a rediculouly obvious FTA media shunning of the game.

Remember alot of people seem to be comparing the two games now, but the future is a very different prospect. We will be living in a far more global world, with global events and that's what people will want. I think the ACL will be a big bonus for th A-league. When people use the words like 'never' and no chance' etc, then it's a bit of a laugh. I think that's a bit short-sighted.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

Won't happen. As much as it looks like happening, it just won't. The AFL is expanding, growing, and most of the population has been brought up with Aussie Rules on their doorstep. It will continue to be the dominant sport in Australia for a very, very long time IMO.

Asked Andrew Demetriou about this last year during an interview, for a school project, and he doesn't feel overly threatened by soccer at all. Sure soccer will get its supporters, many suporters, but AFL will remain the number one sport in Australia unless something drastic happens.

 

[kaypee]

I think you'll find that the success is measured by the benchmarks they, the FFA have set themselves. Do you think Lowy and co. are not wise enough to develop sound business plans? In that regard, I think it has been successful.

I really do understand your point with the dichotomy between participating and a successful professional league, and your example with basketball is a good one. However, soccer is a very different kettle of fish surely. The game has a much, much bigger rate of participation than basketball, and has astute business backing. There also is the globalisation aspect to the game, which basketball, although global, is no match for soccer. The FFA board are a formidable business outfit, and no how to win. This may not instantaneously translate into a successful A-league, but the market is there to be developed.
The other thing is just the sheer level of interest in the game, something which basketball never had. Remember there is no FTA TV like basketball had, and a rediculouly obvious FTA media shunning of the game.

Remember alot of people seem to be comparing the two games now, but the future is a very different prospect. We will be living in a far more global world, with global events and that's what people will want. I think the ACL will be a big bonus for th A-league. When people use the words like 'never' and no chance' etc, then it's a bit of a laugh. I think that's a bit short-sighted.

succes being about meeting "benchmarks" is ludicrous. the fact is the a-league is sliding this year, and even the most loyal soccer people should see that for what it is: a problem. i disagree that basketball has never held a candle to soccer - basketball was huge with the yoof in the days of jordan and had massive participation rates. it too has been backed by supposedly savvy businessmen (many of whom remind me of clive palmer). we've always lived in a global world, and if globalisation is on the increase, whatever thatg means, that is just as likely to wind up being an AFL strength. Globalisation, is, after all, sometimes about more choice, not less.
as for FTA: that's FFA fault. FTA will show whatever makes them money, that's why they don't show the AFL in Queensland (as much as i would like them to). i reckon the FFA gets a dream run in the media given the interest, and that's because the cynically chose to have their season in the dead early summer months
If the FFA were such a "formidable business outfit" they'd be making money. incidentally, businessmen running clubs in the a-league will always be an achilles heal, as i believe will become obvious over the next couple of years.
the nascent soccer market has been there to be developed for years. the afl has developed there market. could it be because the game, whether it be only in the australian context, is simply a great spectacle that is great to play. i know a bloke who recruits for the afl in queensland who reckons he's never had a convert turn their back on the game once they've been convinced to have a run