Will the AFL cooperate with FFA for World Cup bid?

[finders]

Like the MCG and how it was renovated with tax payer money? Or SCG? etc?

A pissy $77 million out of $500 million was offered by Howard but was knocked back by the State Govt.

The renovations are being paid for by MCC members and the AFL via gate levies.If it wasnt for the 40 odd games AFL and Finals played at the MCG every YEAR and the money it generates the G would be a very ordinary stadium so why should a rival code get to use OUR ground whenever they want to?
Australian Football not cricket has made the MCG what it is today and without much in the way of government handouts unlike soccer that always seems to be crying poor mouth..

Get your facts right!

 

[Alistair]

The renovations are being paid for by MCC members and the AFL via gate levies.If it wasnt for the 40 odd games AFL and Finals played at the MCG every YEAR and the money it generates the G would be a very ordinary stadium so why should a rival code get to use OUR ground whenever they want to?
Australian Football not cricket has made the MCG what it is today and without much in the way of government handouts unlike soccer that always seems to be crying poor mouth..

Get your facts right!

I'm one of those MCC Members that pays their levies each year and I would LOVE to see more codes using the ground. Don't go assuming that those who have paid to make the MCG what it is, only want to see "foody" played on the hallowed turf.

 

[Fromtheimpossibleangle]

I think China might be slightly smarter than us - they can see the best chance for an asian-based world cup is 2022, so why would they worry about bidding for 2018? The AFC are allowing us to have our moment pretending we're playing with the big boys, but they'll drop us cold when there's a serious chance to win available.

I'm suprised no-one's really picked up on the far more realistic scenario of Australia hosting the Asian Cup in 2015. Watch that for a bigger brawl between AFL, NRL and FFA - I can't see the AFL abandoning any grounds to allow group matches between Qatar and Thailand being played in front of minscule crowds.

 

[BLPC08]

I dont see a reason why not, the game would be seen by thousands of sport-loving spectators, and considering the crowds are as high as ever in the AFL, I can't see any threat to Aussie Rules popularity in favour of soccer.

 

[davey_magik]

The AFL should cooperate as much as possible.
If the AFL have a clue they should be laughing, FIFA won't allow 3 WC's in a row to be held outside Europe.
England will host 2018, if not them then another European country. We wouldn't get close to hosting it in 2018.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

If they were to build a stadium in Tasmania, or upgrade Aurora, they would do it in a way that it could be used in the future. Upgrading Aurora, as it is an AFL ground, they would do it in a way that it will become a 40k seat stadium for a future Tasmanian team, or for the Hawks to use. Also if they build a new stadium, it would be in the back of the mind that the A-League is expanding, and there may be demand for an A-League team in the future. All stadium upgrades would be mindful of expansion from different leagues.

In terms of accomodation and transport, I assume FIFA provide massive amounts of money for things like stadiums, training facilities, accomodation, extra transportation. There could be temporary facilities in towns that may not be able to cope.

I would think, with the decision coming in about 3 years, that that leaves them about 8 years to prepare. They would be able to organise transportation, accomodation and stadium facilities in that time. Also, a number of cities/stadiums will need to be upgraded in preparation for the 2015 Cricket World Cup, to be held in Aus/NZ, and this could coincide with the 2018/2022 FIFA World Cup

The cricket world cup is a very different beast, pulling far smaller crowds when minnows play. There's no such thing in FIFA world cup. Only four or five decent stadiums are really needed.

As for FIFA putting up money. No. They won't. Any nation has to fund its own bid.

There will never be a Tas AFL or A-League side. And if there was, there would never be the call for a 40k stadium, so any expansion would be for one or two matches, and then have to be scaled back immediately to what Tas already has. (In many ways, despite being a northerner, I'd like that to be North Hobart; its certainly the best sized ground for soccer and the condition of the south's home of footy is getting rather sad.)

 

[mcgarnacle]

I'm suprised no-one's really picked up on the far more realistic scenario of Australia hosting the Asian Cup in 2015.

you havent read the thread.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

The cricket world cup is a very different beast, pulling far smaller crowds when minnows play. There's no such thing in FIFA world cup. Only four or five decent stadiums are really needed.

As for FIFA putting up money. No. They won't. Any nation has to fund its own bid.

There will never be a Tas AFL or A-League side. And if there was, there would never be the call for a 40k stadium, so any expansion would be for one or two matches, and then have to be scaled back immediately to what Tas already has. (In many ways, despite being a northerner, I'd like that to be North Hobart; its certainly the best sized ground for soccer and the condition of the south's home of footy is getting rather sad.)

The last cricket WC in Aus/NZ had matches in small towns between minnows. I'd presume the same would happen again. Therefore kenya could play Bangladesh in bendigo or Zimbabwe play Holland in Lismore. The cricket WC could have as many as 15-20 stadiums used (in Aus and NZ, last time they used 18), as the MCG/SCG/Gabba etc won't hold minnow games. Australia will however play all their games at big grounds.

To me, it is not the stadium funding that is the problem, it is the overall infrastructure upgrades (i.e. the non-sport (soccer) issues). Considering the amound of time it takes to build railways, roads etc, plus the fact that people are becoming more anti-development, Australia should bid for the 2050 WC as maybe then things will have been done.

The MCG could become a rectangle by lowering the ground and adding in seats to make it 115,000. This has been talked about and presume it could happen if the WC came here.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

I think China might be slightly smarter than us - they can see the best chance for an asian-based world cup is 2022, so why would they worry about bidding for 2018? The AFC are allowing us to have our moment pretending we're playing with the big boys, but they'll drop us cold when there's a serious chance to win available.

I'm suprised no-one's really picked up on the far more realistic scenario of Australia hosting the Asian Cup in 2015. Watch that for a bigger brawl between AFL, NRL and FFA - I can't see the AFL abandoning any grounds to allow group matches between Qatar and Thailand being played in front of minscule crowds.

is 2015 a certainty.

The AFL/NRL/ARU wouldn't have to vacate grounds during that tournament would they.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

No

We make our application to bid now, which is what happened last week. Over the next 4 years we work to show FIFA and other member nations, who vote on who hosts the tournament, that we are capable of hosting the cup. In 2011, the world decides who hosts the event. Then from 2011 to 2018 work goes on to ready stadiums, infrastrucutre etc...

We are bidding for the 2018 World Cup, not the 2022

Do you have to pay another $30-100m to bid again next time.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

The last cricket WC in Aus/NZ had matches in small towns between minnows. I'd presume the same would happen again. Therefore kenya could play Bangladesh in bendigo or Zimbabwe play Holland in Lismore. The cricket WC could have as many as 15-20 stadiums used (in Aus and NZ, last time they used 18), as the MCG/SCG/Gabba etc won't hold minnow games. Australia will however play all their games at big grounds.

Precisely. The cricket world cup can play games at venues that don't hold more than 10,000 (the fact that the oldest first class ground in Australia was overlooked last time - and will be again - is a disgrace), and only needs four or five decent venues.
A soccer world cup can't have grounds like that. The venues are a big issue, but in many cases its the other things that are even bigger. Accommodation and infrastructure being the most obvious in regional cities.

 

[Tigger Please!]

Assuming Australia did get it, I reckon this'd be the go:

Dairy Farmers, Townsville - currently 26 000, upgraded to 40 000
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane - 52 000, good to go
Carrara Stadium, Gold Coast - currently 20 000-odd, upgraded to 40 000
Energy Australia Stadium, Newcastle - currently 26 000, upgraded to 40 000
WIN Stadium, Wollongong - currently 20 000, upgraded to 40 000
ANZ Stadium, Sydney - 82 000, good to go
Canberra Stadium - currently 30 000, upgraded to 40 000
Telstra Dome, Melbourne - 55 000, good to go
New Rectangular Stadium, Melbourne - upgrade to 40 000 pretty easily
Aurora Stadium, Launceston - currently 23 000, upgrade to 40 000
Skilled Stadium, Geelong - currently 27 000, upgrade to 40 000
New Rectangular Stadium, Adelaide - 45 000
Stadium WA, Perth - 70 000

Grounds still available to AFL: Gabba, SCG, Manuka, MCG, AAMI, Subiaco
Grounds still avaliable to NRL: Ballymore (?), Skilled (GC), Central Coast, SFS, 7 x Sydney Suburban Grounds, Olympic Park (?), Mt Smart.

With this system, Melbourne would get to host more games, Sydney would host the final. Several of the stadiums requiring upgrades, already have them in the works somewhat anyway - Townsville, Carrara, Newcastle, Wollongong, Geelong.
It's quite possible to continue both leagues alongside the WC, clearly it'd be more difficult for the NRL than the AFL. The benefits for both codes is that they'd get several of their stadiums (AFL - Carrara, Aurora and Skilled; NRL - DFS, EAS, WIN and Canberra) upgraded to world class standard and the potential to expose themselves to an international audience.

 

[Valve Bounce]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but if they have, my apologies.

We won't get the Soccer World Cup simply because we are in the wrong time zone, apart from anything else. The same reason that Melbourne will lose the Grand Prix when the contract runs out after 2010.

The television rights for games scheduled for Europe will far outweigh anything that we can offer.

 

[Bouvet_Island]

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but if they have, my apologies.

We won't get the Soccer World Cup simply because we are in the wrong time zone, apart from anything else. The same reason that Melbourne will lose the Grand Prix when the contract runs out after 2010.

The television rights for games scheduled for Europe will far outweigh anything that we can offer.

Not only has it already been mentioned, in fact it was already debunked.

The games at the world cup in Germany were played at 3pm, 6pm and 9pm. If they were played on the east coast of Australia they would be shown into England at 6am, 9am and midday and an hour later in places like France/Germany/Italy.

If you have a game in Perth starting at say 9pm, it would be shown into England at 2pm.

 

[Adz]

Not only has it already been mentioned, in fact it was already debunked.

The games at the world cup in Germany were played at 3pm, 6pm and 9pm. If they were played on the east coast of Australia they would be shown into England at 6am, 9am and midday and an hour later in places like France/Germany/Italy.

If you have a game in Perth starting at say 9pm, it would be shown into England at 2pm.

Because the big matches would be in Perth

 

[Seanason]

To set the record straight

FIFA require 50k capacity as a WC venue
Shape of the stadium is not relevant.
There is a limit of 2 stadia per city that can host the game.

whoever the idiot is that made the comparison about NFL and cricket WC, get funked, thats the worst example ive ever heard, so biased im surprised you havent been laughed out of here.

Magpie man has done well, but not enough research. Adelaide rectangle stadium wont be 45k and wont be used in the WC, and they will upgrade AAMI for use in the WC. This leaves Adelaide Oval for AFL. with the 2 venue per city limit, drop the melbourne rectangle stadium and add the SFS. Ill post my list in a minute.

And the AFL will back any bid, as per this link: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23279724-19742,00.html

 

[mattdavies_03]

To set the record straight

FIFA require 50k capacity as a WC venue
Shape of the stadium is not relevant.
There is a limit of 2 stadia per city that can host the game.

whoever the idiot is that made the comparison about NFL and cricket WC, get funked, thats the worst example ive ever heard, so biased im surprised you havent been laughed out of here.

Magpie man has done well, but not enough research. Adelaide rectangle stadium wont be 45k and wont be used in the WC, and they will upgrade AAMI for use in the WC. This leaves Adelaide Oval for AFL. with the 2 venue per city limit, drop the melbourne rectangle stadium and add the SFS. Ill post my list in a minute.

And the AFL will back any bid, as per this link: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23279724-19742,00.html

I'm not 100%, but I think FIFA require only 40K capacity for a WC venue
6 of the 12 stadiums used in Germany had a capacity of under 50k
12 of the 20 stadiums used in Korea/Japan had a capacity of under 50k
5 of the 10 stadiums to be used in South Africa have a capacity of under 50k
9 of the proposed 18 stadiums to be used in Brazil have a capacity of under 50k

 

[Seanason]

i was going by the advertiser article a few weeks back that listed the Aus venues that were currently able to host a WC - they were Suncorp, MCG, TD and ANZ.

Was a good article, had a lot of potential venues.

 

[ashley12]

Yep only need 40000

Kaiserslautern, Nuremberg, Leipzig and a few others all had <50000 capacity.

The final stadium, Berlin, had a 76000 capacity IIRC

 

[Chuq]

i was going by the advertiser article a few weeks back that listed the Aus venues that were currently able to host a WC - they were Suncorp, MCG, TD and ANZ.

Was a good article, had a lot of potential venues.

I've seen the same list but with SFS instead of the MCG. Apparently more than x % of seats are more than y metres from the field, which means it doesn't pass the FIFA test.

The MCC/Vic Government is not going to want to see a World Cup final slip through their fingers so I can't wait to see what they're going to do to it to make it acceptable. Possibly cover the lower tier with temporary seating in a rectangular pattern. Higher capacity, check. Rectangular, check. Closer to field, check.

And before you say "they'd never do that" - they installed an athletics track in the stadium for the Commonwealth Games.

 

[Chuq]

Because the big matches would be in Perth

With a brand new 60k stadium - yes, they might.

 

[ashley12]

With a brand new 60k stadium - yes, they might.

Wont happen.

Imagine England having their first game in Brisbane, backed up by a match in Perth 5 days later then the group decider in Sydney 4 days after that. Wont happen due to travel factor. Remember, most of the worlds stars play in England, Spain or Italy, and therefore arent used to the constant travel that say WCE or Freo do

 

[Chuq]

is 2015 a certainty.

The AFL/NRL/ARU wouldn't have to vacate grounds during that tournament would they.

It's not a certainty but its 99.9%.

It depends what time of year it is held. The Asian cup can be held in either January or July. Qatar is holding the next one on January 2011, since July 2011 would be the middle of the hot season in the middle easy - January would be their winter, when temperatures are mid 20s.

I presume Australia would have the same choice and would go for January.

The last Asian Cup went for 3 weeks. During January, Australia's rectangular stadiums would only be in use by the A-League, and clearly they wouldn't mind having a break for 3 weeks!

The 2007 Asian Cup used 8 stadiums which ranged in size from 25k to 100k.

In each group, there was one stadium that was used for 5 games, and one stadium (a smaller one) which was used for 1 game - as the last two games in each group were played simultaneously. If Australia did the same thing (big if), using the large stadium / small stadium pairings, they would probably use:

Group A - Lang Park (52k) / Robina Stadium (27k)
Group B - Stadium Australia (80k) / SFS (45k) OR SFS (45k) / Newcastle Stadium (26k)
Group C - Swan St Stadium (31k) / Olympic Park (20k) OR Docklands Stadium (55k) / Swan St Stadium (31k)
Group D - New Adelaide stadium (45k?) / Hindmarsh Stadium (16k)

Stadium Australia / Stadium WA / Lang Park / Docklands for finals.

 

[ashley12]

I think WA is a bit of a problem given the distance.

What I think they will do will put the first four games of a group (not Australia's) in Perth all at Stadium WA on different days. For the last matches of the group the group moves to the Eastern Seaboard, on Adelaide to complete the group.

This is similer to what they did with the Rugby World Cup in 2003 (5 games, 2 of England, South Africa, Samoa, Georgia and Uruaguay including the big game between Sth Africa and England)

Best option in regards to excessive travel, distance etc...

 

[Chuq]

Wont happen.

Imagine England having their first game in Brisbane, backed up by a match in Perth 5 days later then the group decider in Sydney 4 days after that. Wont happen due to travel factor. Remember, most of the worlds stars play in England, Spain or Italy, and therefore arent used to the constant travel that say WCE or Freo do

It would be crazy to schedule games like that. In reality, Perth would probably get 1 group to itself, with 1 game (the two last games need to be played simultaneously) in Adelaide. Adelaide may get a group to itself, again, with one of the last matches of the group in Perth.

Others groups could be shared between cities, such as Townsville/Brisbane, Bris/Newcastle/Syd, Syd/Canberra/Melbourne, Melb/Tas, and so on.

The benefits of a 60k capacity stadium and the time zone being just that much closer to Europe would be too great to prevent Perth from missing out.