Will the AFL cooperate with FFA for World Cup bid?

[Alistair]

Remember, most of the worlds stars play in England, Spain or Italy, and therefore arent used to the constant travel that say WCE or Freo do

Please

Unlike the AFL where there are 10 teams for one city, 'away games' in European leagues actually mean more than traveling 30 minutes to an hour. Not to mention trips across continental Europe, often playing three games in a week. These guys have been on the road every week since they started playing and would be well used to it by now. Combine it with the fact that games for each team are usually spaced four or five days apart, so travel is not an excuse for these guys.

 

[royaldave]

Don't forget that all the travel "problems" that would occur in Australia would have occurred in USA, a country of similar size.

Stadiums used included Pasadena and Palo Alto in California in the West to Washington and many others in the East.

I've just looked at few group matches from back then and indeed teams were flying from east to west at group stage.

 

[Chuq]

Don't forget that all the travel "problems" that would occur in Australia would have occurred in USA, a country of similar size.

Stadiums used included Pasadena and Palo Alto in California in the West to Washington and many others in the East.

I've just looked at few group matches from back then and indeed teams were flying from east to west at group stage.

Didn't you just refute the statement in your first sentence with your third sentence?

And as I posted a few posts back, it doesn't have to be arranged in that way.

 

[Valve Bounce]

Not only has it already been mentioned, in fact it was already debunked.

The games at the world cup in Germany were played at 3pm, 6pm and 9pm. If they were played on the east coast of Australia they would be shown into England at 6am, 9am and midday and an hour later in places like France/Germany/Italy.

If you have a game in Perth starting at say 9pm, it would be shown into England at 2pm.

OK, maybe I am setting my targets incorrectly. I cannot imagine many people getting up at 5 am in Europe to watch the soccer World Cup as they probably have to go to work.

However, having said that, maybe the focus should be shifted to vieewers in India, Pakistan, China and Indonesia, where there would be huge interest in soccer and where the population is mega. The TV viewing there would far surpass anything in Europe.

 

[royaldave]

Didn't you just refute the statement in your first sentence with your third sentence?

And as I posted a few posts back, it doesn't have to be arranged in that way.

Chug, I'm not disagreeing with you. My point is that FIFA have not been concerned with the distance between venues in the past and I used USA as an example. I say this to refute views about the distance between Perth and the East Coast being any sort of problem for the World Cup being hosted in Australia (due to travel required during tournament) and also Perth missing out on some action.

Yes, they could organise things better but have chosen not to in the past. At the end of the day I think big stadiums for big games has been their priority.

 

[Hornet]

I've seen the same list but with SFS instead of the MCG. Apparently more than x % of seats are more than y metres from the field, which means it doesn't pass the FIFA test.

Berlin's Olympiastadion just hosted the WC final...

...Berlin's Olympiastadion is 25m longer than the MCG.

 

[tigerdan]

Berlin's Olympiastadion just hosted the WC final...

...Berlin's Olympiastadion is 25m longer than the MCG.

Yeah, but there's more to it than that - you'd have to take the width into account.

 

[Hornet]

Yeah, but there's more to it than that - you'd have to take the width into account.

Account towards what? the 190m guideline?

The width has no bearing on that. The only section any stadium could fail will be the seating behind the goals.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

To set the record straight

FIFA require 50k capacity as a WC venue
Shape of the stadium is not relevant.
There is a limit of 2 stadia per city that can host the game.

Is it 2 now? I thought it was still one venue per city.
That makes a big difference, and almost make sit possible in terms of venues.

MCG, Docklands, Stadium Australia, SFS, Lang Park, Robina, Knights Stadium, the new Perth stadium, whatever gets built/upgraded in Adelaide. And there's nine. Add Geelong and/or Woolongong (separate cities, but in reality a cheat's way of getting a third venue in the Melbourne and/or Sydney areas) and its just about done. Canberra and Townsville might also be in the mix, but would be very doubtful.
And impossibilities such as Tassie (personally, I think that would be a shame, but the reality is Tas couldn't cope with it in terms of infrastructure, accommodation or the cost of building and then tearing down most of a venue) and Darwin aren't required.

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

It's not a certainty but its 99.9%.

It depends what time of year it is held. The Asian cup can be held in either January or July. Qatar is holding the next one on January 2011, since July 2011 would be the middle of the hot season in the middle easy - January would be their winter, when temperatures are mid 20s.

I presume Australia would have the same choice and would go for January.

The last Asian Cup went for 3 weeks. During January, Australia's rectangular stadiums would only be in use by the A-League, and clearly they wouldn't mind having a break for 3 weeks!

The 2007 Asian Cup used 8 stadiums which ranged in size from 25k to 100k.

In each group, there was one stadium that was used for 5 games, and one stadium (a smaller one) which was used for 1 game - as the last two games in each group were played simultaneously. If Australia did the same thing (big if), using the large stadium / small stadium pairings, they would probably use:

Group A - Lang Park (52k) / Robina Stadium (27k)
Group B - Stadium Australia (80k) / SFS (45k) OR SFS (45k) / Newcastle Stadium (26k)
Group C - Swan St Stadium (31k) / Olympic Park (20k) OR Docklands Stadium (55k) / Swan St Stadium (31k)
Group D - New Adelaide stadium (45k?) / Hindmarsh Stadium (16k)

Stadium Australia / Stadium WA / Lang Park / Docklands for finals.

You're probably right, but I thought that the FFA would prefer to have more football, i.e. their own league in summer and a major international tournament in july. The cricket WC is also on around feb/march/april (as it has been for the last few times, so I presume it will be then) so that may also come into consideration.

Then again 3 straight months of major international tournaments could be big for the country especially if say India are good at soccer then, heaps of their supporters will stay here for months.

Assuming there is no capacity limit on stadiums for the Asian Cup, i'd presume they would use mainly probably as you said so long as the new stadiums are finished.

As all those stadiums tend to be rectangle that will help both football and cricket in the prepartions of their cups.

Playing in winter could also help the FFA if attention is taken off the AFL and NRL. If they are concerned about crowds, then maybe some games could be played in smaller cities like Launceston, Townsville or Gosford (like the Rugby WC). People would go to see internationals as it would be rare for them to be played even if it was say Japan vs Uzbekistan.

 

[Chuq]

You're probably right, but I thought that the FFA would prefer to have more football, i.e. their own league in summer and a major international tournament in july. The cricket WC is also on around feb/march/april (as it has been for the last few times, so I presume it will be then) so that may also come into consideration.

That's a good point. With Qatar the games would be unplayable in July, whereas in Australia, games are playable in either season - it would just be nicer during the summer.

The problem with a July Asian Cup in Australia would be with getting the NRL to shift. (neither the MCG or Docklands are a necessity so AFL wouldn't be affected - all they would be requested of them is to not schedule any of the Swans' Homebush matches during the finals - 1-2 weeks max.)

Unlike a World Cup, where AFL and NRL not going on hold for a few weeks would be viewed as arrogant, it would be the opposite - expecting them to shut down for an Asian Cup would be completely unnecessary.

 

[Guido]

Is it 2 now? I thought it was still one venue per city.

The guide is 10 stadiums across 9 cities. These are minimums, not maximums. You could have 11 cities and 11 stadiums. For instance, 2002 was played across 20 stadiums.

But for Australia, the problem is in finding 9 cities rather than 9 stadiums. Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth are the only definites. Adelaide and Canberra more likely than not should the bid succeed. Leaves 3 more "regional" centres that would have to be found and be willing to invest millions in order to get their areas amongst the action.

And impossibilities such as Tassie (personally, I think that would be a shame, but the reality is Tas couldn't cope with it in terms of infrastructure, accommodation or the cost of building and then tearing down most of a venue)

Kaiserslauten had a population of less than 100K (even hosted knock out matches). Hobart has 200K, and could possibly have anywhere up to 250K by 2018.

Hobart would be considered a thriving tourist metropolis compared to Kaiserslautern. At the 2006 WC, all accomodation was booked out weeks in advance - did Aussie/Italian/Japanese fans give a f***? No. Everyone worked ways of getting around it, just as they would in Hobart. For the fans travelling half way across the world to see a tournament, it's about the sport, logistics are secondary. If they have to get a room 50Kms out at a bed and breakfast, they'll do it. If they have to stay in Launceston and plane,bus, drive it in, they'll do it.

What also gets forgotten is that fans travelling to the country won't buy tix until they know they're playing there - a lot of the ticket selling stages are sold prior to knowing who's in the groups, which naturally attracts primarily locals, meaning half the games could be well be filled with Tassie people. This would leave the state with the need to accomodate an influx of maybe 20,000-30,000 tourists (who have tickets) per match. It'll be hard, but they would cope.

And Hobart could build a rectangular 45K stadium, reconfigurable to a downsized capacity (~37K) oval after the tournament to house international cricket/footy (and possibly be a platform to launch another AFL license bid).

 

[royaldave]

I'd think the FFA would be keen to push the game where it has A-League teams located (or will be located) which means Gold Coast, Central Coast, Townsville and Newcastle are the likely choices for them to encourage efforts towards stadium upgrades.

However there has been interest from Hobart, as well as Wollongong and Geelong towards future A-League inclusion which would throw them all into the mix should there be any serious movement in those regions.

 

[Kahn]

What also gets forgotten is that fans travelling to the country won't buy tix until they know they're playing there - a lot of the ticket selling stages are sold prior to knowing who's in the groups, which naturally attracts primarily locals, meaning half the games could be well be filled with Tassie people. This would leave the state with the need to accomodate an influx of maybe 20,000-30,000 tourists (who have tickets) per match. It'll be hard, but they would cope.

Tickets do go on sale before people know which countries have qualified.

But to ensure people watch the country that they want to watch, they sell tickets to watch a particular country, not a venue. So for example I'll buy tickets to watch all of Germay games or all of Soloman Island's games before they have qualified. If they don't qualify, i get my money back. If they do, then I have a ticket to each of their games.

Thats why when you watch the world cup in Germany, 80% of the crowd are from either country. for example, the Australia vs Japan game was packed with people from these two nations.

the majority of tickets get sold this way. Those that are left get sold on an indvidual basis.

 

[A Living God]

Existings venue
MCG
TD
Suncorp
ANZ Stadium

Additional venue's already planned.
New Perth Stadium
Eden Park (Auckland)

Thats 6 stadiums meaning another 4 would be needed.

1. New Stadium for Adelaide, multi - purpose with capacity 50,000 - 60,000 as a replacement for Football Park, Adelaide oval and Hindmarsh Stadium
2. Redeveloped Sydney Football Stadium
3. Redeveloped Gabba

The Location of the 10th stadium would have to be either the Gold Coast or New Castle. Neither need a stadium that large but the Gold Coast would probably be the better option as it could be used by AFL, NRL and A - League teams.

 

[gotheflag]

The only thing going against Australia putting up a bid, is with alot of oval stadiums where as other countries could / would have rectangular stadiums in their plans would put Australia at a disadvantage.

For a comparison on sizes, a rectangular stadium ala the san siro in milan italy would have at least 40,000 people inside the fence line at the mcg.

 

[Alistair]

The only thing going against Australia putting up a bid, is with alot of oval stadiums where as other countries could / would have rectangular stadiums in their plans would put Australia at a disadvantage.

For a comparison on sizes, a rectangular stadium ala the san siro in milan italy would have at least 40,000 people inside the fence line at the mcg.

Welcome to the thread.

Glad you could join us and repeat the 293 posts before yours

 

[VikingSven]

I don't think there is much to be concerned about. I can't see the FFA/Federal government playing the sort of cloke and dagger games to win the bidding process. If you think the sports administrations operate mysteriously, check out the murky world in which FIFA operate in here.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

The guide is 10 stadiums across 9 cities. These are minimums, not maximums. You could have 11 cities and 11 stadiums. For instance, 2002 was played across 20 stadiums.

But for Australia, the problem is in finding 9 cities rather than 9 stadiums. Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth are the only definites. Adelaide and Canberra more likely than not should the bid succeed. Leaves 3 more "regional" centres that would have to be found and be willing to invest millions in order to get their areas amongst the action.

Kaiserslauten had a population of less than 100K (even hosted knock out matches). Hobart has 200K, and could possibly have anywhere up to 250K by 2018.

Hobart would be considered a thriving tourist metropolis compared to Kaiserslautern. At the 2006 WC, all accomodation was booked out weeks in advance - did Aussie/Italian/Japanese fans give a f***? No. Everyone worked ways of getting around it, just as they would in Hobart. For the fans travelling half way across the world to see a tournament, it's about the sport, logistics are secondary. If they have to get a room 50Kms out at a bed and breakfast, they'll do it. If they have to stay in Launceston and plane,bus, drive it in, they'll do it.

What also gets forgotten is that fans travelling to the country won't buy tix until they know they're playing there - a lot of the ticket selling stages are sold prior to knowing who's in the groups, which naturally attracts primarily locals, meaning half the games could be well be filled with Tassie people. This would leave the state with the need to accomodate an influx of maybe 20,000-30,000 tourists (who have tickets) per match. It'll be hard, but they would cope.

And Hobart could build a rectangular 45K stadium, reconfigurable to a downsized capacity (~37K) oval after the tournament to house international cricket/footy (and possibly be a platform to launch another AFL license bid).

Kaiserslauten is also only about 100km from Stuttgart and Frankfurt. Unlike Tassie, there wouldn't be any need for a solid chunk of the crowd to fly in-fly out on the day.

As for Hobart EVER (well, any time in the 21st century) requiring a 37k stadium, absolutely no chance. There won't ever be an AFL team in Tassie, and its highly unlikely there would be an A-League team. If there was, an A-League side wouldn't draw more than 10k very often.
It would be a massive investment to build and almost equally massive to tear most of it down again.

Greater Hobart won't have anything like 250k in ten years. The ABS' mid-range projection for 2021 is 220k, low 207k and high 235k.

The regional cities would have to be those close enough to major cities to benefit from the population and infrastructure, Woolongong, Geelong, Gold Coast; those large enough in their own right, Newcastle and again Gold Coast; and those who have massive tourist infrastructure in place already or have a strong likelihood of such demand, possibly Townsville (which could well have overtaken Hobart in population by 2018 if it hasn't already).

Canberra is possible because it is over-quota in hotels, serviced apartments and stuff due to the massive number of fly-in, fly-out workers - not just those attached to parliament, a large chunk of contractors to government and the private sector live in Melbourne or Sydney (and some in Adelaide) and fly home every weekend. Whether Canberra has the on-going demand for a larger stadium (given the current stadium is rarely near capacity) is another question. It could certainly do with a makeover though, and unlike Hobart Canberra is actually growing at a decent rate - as well as being 50% larger to begin with and being drivable from Sydney.