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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
WRFL Division 1 - 2012
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Zinc
Senior List
Altona Seniors going on a spending spree to recruit players whilst the Juniors can't afford jumpers (HeraldSun p2 today). Great club !!!!
FOOTYONTHENOSE
Debutant
Top Call Zinc, DISGRACEFUL !
I am interested to hear what people’s thoughts are on where the league (as a whole) is at the moment and how the WRFL may look in 10 years time?
In my view the WRFL is going nowhere. Speak to people that are not involved in our comp and you will find out that we are pretty much an insignificant competition. 10 Years ago there was always a debate about who was better... WRFL (may have even been FDFL back then) or the EDFL? Well that debate has been well and truly put to bed particularly in the last 5 years. The EDFL got their act together and they are now miles ahead of us (in terms of standard and the quality of players they are attracting).
My view is that the WRFL are now trying to play “catch up football”. There seems to be a push to catch up to and compete with the EDFL (by both the league and individual clubs). I am not sure why. In my view the league would be much better trying to position itself as an alternative to the EDFL rather than a competitor. We are better of positioning ourselves as a competitor to the VAFA in the western suburbs. The EDFL clubs are now paying players so much $$ that it is an absolute joke. How long can it last... well only time will tell but in my mind local clubs paying $150- $300K is not sustainable.
2 years ago at a league run planning day the number 1 issue raised by clubs was the unevenness of the competitions. There were a few suggestions made but nothing has come of it. The suggestion of a “points system salary cap” was raised but howled down very quickly because “ it would weaken our comp and the EDFL would get stronger with top players going there”. I think that this needs to be re visited. The strengthening of the VAFA in the western suburbs shows that there is a demand for a competition that is not ruled by the almighty dollar.
The WRFL should bite the bullet and introduce a points salary cap system asap. In the short term the standard of footy may drop as clubs would not be able to BUY IN the big guns but it would certainly level up the playing field across the board more than we have now. Right now we are in “No Man’s land”. On one side is the EDFL (we are chasing them but unlikely to catch or pass them) and on the other is the Ammos. When I look at local footy I know what both of these comps offer and stand for. I am not sure what the WRFL offers. If we don’t change the direction of the comp soon we will get swallowed up by the EDFL and the VAFA
In my view the WRFL is going nowhere. Speak to people that are not involved in our comp and you will find out that we are pretty much an insignificant competition. 10 Years ago there was always a debate about who was better... WRFL (may have even been FDFL back then) or the EDFL? Well that debate has been well and truly put to bed particularly in the last 5 years. The EDFL got their act together and they are now miles ahead of us (in terms of standard and the quality of players they are attracting).
My view is that the WRFL are now trying to play “catch up football”. There seems to be a push to catch up to and compete with the EDFL (by both the league and individual clubs). I am not sure why. In my view the league would be much better trying to position itself as an alternative to the EDFL rather than a competitor. We are better of positioning ourselves as a competitor to the VAFA in the western suburbs. The EDFL clubs are now paying players so much $$ that it is an absolute joke. How long can it last... well only time will tell but in my mind local clubs paying $150- $300K is not sustainable.
2 years ago at a league run planning day the number 1 issue raised by clubs was the unevenness of the competitions. There were a few suggestions made but nothing has come of it. The suggestion of a “points system salary cap” was raised but howled down very quickly because “ it would weaken our comp and the EDFL would get stronger with top players going there”. I think that this needs to be re visited. The strengthening of the VAFA in the western suburbs shows that there is a demand for a competition that is not ruled by the almighty dollar.
The WRFL should bite the bullet and introduce a points salary cap system asap. In the short term the standard of footy may drop as clubs would not be able to BUY IN the big guns but it would certainly level up the playing field across the board more than we have now. Right now we are in “No Man’s land”. On one side is the EDFL (we are chasing them but unlikely to catch or pass them) and on the other is the Ammos. When I look at local footy I know what both of these comps offer and stand for. I am not sure what the WRFL offers. If we don’t change the direction of the comp soon we will get swallowed up by the EDFL and the VAFA
Time to relax
Team Captain
GB50 - As I have previously stated the opportunity to close the gap from division 1 & division 2 needs to be explored. As suggested a while ago;
Divvy 2 Premiers receive 20K from the WRFL on the provisions they meet set criterias, and 10K in 2nd season of division 1. Can not be relegated for two seasons. (Obviously a lot more detail required)
Is this financially achievable? YES
The WRFL's operating expenses went up 160K from 2009 to 2010 (yes in one year)
Key Expenses;
Divvy 2 Premiers receive 20K from the WRFL on the provisions they meet set criterias, and 10K in 2nd season of division 1. Can not be relegated for two seasons. (Obviously a lot more detail required)
Is this financially achievable? YES
The WRFL's operating expenses went up 160K from 2009 to 2010 (yes in one year)
Key Expenses;
- Additional 52K on finals?
- 16K on salaries yet clubs do more work on behalf of the association
- 35K accounting services, not spent in 2009
GB50 - As I have previously stated the opportunity to close the gap from division 1 & division 2 needs to be explored. As suggested a while ago;
Divvy 2 Premiers receive 20K from the WRFL on the provisions they meet set criterias, and 10K in 2nd season of division 1. Can not be relegated for two seasons. (Obviously a lot more detail required)
Is this financially achievable? YES
The WRFL's operating expenses went up 160K from 2009 to 2010 (yes in one year)
Key Expenses;
Put simple the league needs to become more attractive and to do so, division 1 needs to be more competitive so teams coming up must be more competitive. I am sure Rock could use an extra 30K over two seasons on player expenses
- Additional 52K on finals?
- 16K on salaries yet clubs do more work on behalf of the association
- 35K accounting services, not spent in 2009
I am sure that it would not hurt but I doubt that would be the answer. In the current player market what is $20K going to get you? The idea means that the answer is getting everyone to spend more.
Also it is one thing to have the money but recruiting players is a different story. Lets say the team coming up offers 2 blokes $500 a game... there goes the $20K and guess what.... Albion, Spotty, St Albans, Deer Park, hoppers will all be offering the same players more than $500 as well as a proven track record of playing finals and potential success.
To be fair, I note the league changed to a 31 October year end in the 2010 year so those 2010 numbers are 13 months, compared to 12 months for the 2009 year.
Even so, the points regarding waste at administration level are warranted.
GB50 - As I have previously stated the opportunity to close the gap from division 1 & division 2 needs to be explored. As suggested a while ago;
Divvy 2 Premiers receive 20K from the WRFL on the provisions they meet set criterias, and 10K in 2nd season of division 1. Can not be relegated for two seasons. (Obviously a lot more detail required)
Is this financially achievable? YES
The WRFL's operating expenses went up 160K from 2009 to 2010 (yes in one year)
Key Expenses;
Put simple the league needs to become more attractive and to do so, division 1 needs to be more competitive so teams coming up must be more competitive. I am sure Rock could use an extra 30K over two seasons on player expenses
- Additional 52K on finals?
- 16K on salaries yet clubs do more work on behalf of the association
- 35K accounting services, not spent in 2009
We are doing our recruiting moneyball style..... I don't think players just chase money success is the main thing and to play with mates.
We offers good coin to players like shylo, Nathan Jackel and a few others and have missed out. We have still picked up a few and still chasing 5 or 6 4who are training with us but I still think they all just want to make sure others are committed so we have a decent side.
In saying all that crap while money is a big incentive on field success is bigger and this generally starts with $$.
I'm with gb50 on this we need a points system. Even a club like port colts they will be a great team this year but keeping the list together will be very difficult as they don't have the big $$ available.
A points system will still able clubs to recruit just will even out the comp a little.
I actually believe it should come from football Victoria not the wrfl and all leagues should have it implemented.
Any one brave enough to take on nth in a praccy game?
00Stinger
100 - 7
You do realise that Altona and Altona City Juniors are two seperate clubs, yeah?
NotDoneYet
Debutant
Where did Jackel end up going rock?
Zinc
Senior List
Yes i know they are "seperate" clubs (same ground, same rooms/facilities, same jumper). Just shows how stupid that set up is.
rodger ram jet
Draftee
jackel gone to Darley
- Feb 13, 2003
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I think it's pretty premature and ignorant to label the league as a failure and with no hope of success. Deer Park will strengthen Div1 and I believe once Parkside get there act together they are also a club that can again compete at the top level.
The reality is local footy has gone down a similar path to the EPL all be it on a much smaller scale, it seems a few key stake holders/sponsors throw money in for short term success, I think it needs to be monitored but doubt a points system is the answer. We want the league to improve not go backwards in standard, points system is not the answer.
I've said it a million times, the way the league can again become a power is to entice other clubs to strengthen the standard across all levels. The 3 Melton sides are a start and Caroline Springs,Burnside and even Sunbury could be an option! Why on earth the league hasn't at least made a play for these clubs especially the Melton based ones is beyond me.
The reality is local footy has gone down a similar path to the EPL all be it on a much smaller scale, it seems a few key stake holders/sponsors throw money in for short term success, I think it needs to be monitored but doubt a points system is the answer. We want the league to improve not go backwards in standard, points system is not the answer.
I've said it a million times, the way the league can again become a power is to entice other clubs to strengthen the standard across all levels. The 3 Melton sides are a start and Caroline Springs,Burnside and even Sunbury could be an option! Why on earth the league hasn't at least made a play for these clubs especially the Melton based ones is beyond me.
My opinion. The wrfl is just a small arm of the afl conglomerate, its main purpose, as with all other leagues is to see that the *image of the brand* is not tarnished in any way . I ask myself, how can bob tregear be the ceo of the wrfl and at the same time be a partner in a leisure management consultant business ... thompson tregear. What are the goals of the majority of our board of directors (who knows where most quietly slipped in from), we have ex mayors, partners in law firms, ex state mp's, all wanting to be a part of western suburbs football, for its betterment? no theirs. Oh yes, and nice to see Diana Taylor on the Board of Directors at Geelong.
Cynical, yes, but i firmly believe the wrfl and all other leagues have no real interest in how good or bad their quality of football is as long as the $ are turning over, everyone is behaving and the kids are looked after.
Well, we would all blame the Board if they were losing money, fights on the ground every game, and kids weren't looked after, so I suggest quite some of their focus is right.
But back to your point about the quality of football though...
One would argue it is actually the responsibility of the clubs to improve the quality of football. The WRFL should only provide the framework.
And today the framework is that money talks. No excuses then for the standard of quality in the WRFL. If every club raises quadruple the dough, we can compete with any other League. We could even get Wayne Carey to play a game, or maybe Barry. Wow.
Ok, so this will never happen. There are simply not enough wealthy people living in the West to compete with funds available in other Leagues.
And really, is this what we are about? Perhaps the question should be what the WRFL objectives and framework should be?
In my view, the main objective is participation. Health stats in the West are very poor and so the benefit of creating healthy habits for kids and players seems to greatly outweigh anything else.
The other objective is to have fun and teach well to perform to the best of our ability for our club. And having a chance to win a flag once in a while.
And for most clubs, thats close to impossible today. I dare say many committee members spend more time fundraising in one way or another, than improving their Junior participation and development programs. And I think thats not good. But what can you do? Jump off the train?
I think that there is a solution, which supports competition eveness, improved playing quality and greater participation.
I think we can create a point system, which helps to even out the competition. It works well in other Leagues, eg. Gippsland. The system must however provide point benefits for local players.
More club resources would then be directed towards Junior development and participation, rather than raising money for Senior payments.
Which, over time, helps to increase the standard of the WRFL competition. Lets not import players, lets work harder to teach our own.
So creating an even competition does not have to necessarily mean decreasing the quality of the (senior) competition. It probably will for a little while, but in the long term the WRFL will be better for it.
If this approach does not get us to the quality levels of neighbouring leagues (no change from today), it will for sure provide a very attractive, and affordable proposition for non-WRFL clubs to join. And a bigger league with a clear and strong proposition must be a good thing.
Strategically, I think this works well, that is, if you believe that the ATM road is a road to nowhere (which i do).
So yes, the influx of non-local mercenaries will the stemmed. Clubs will be able to afford some, but many will go elsewhere.
But hey, I think we all love watching local kids come through and play Seniors!
Dear DC,
you are wasting your time on this thread, your post makes way too much sense.......well done.
on another note, Brad Sutcliffe back to the colts, another quality pickup that I'm sure will do very well in the WRFL.
Zinc
Senior List
Great theory but would only work if ALL comps (except AFL/VFL) in Victoria adopted the points system.
Why?
Can't see why we couldnt go one out it in this. What would happen that would be so bad if the WRFL introduced this and the rest of the comps didnt?
OUTSIDELOOKINGIN
Debutant
Already implemented in some of the country comp's
I think the point structure is Total 45 points per senior game:
1 point - local junior
2 points - player from outside league returning to local junior club
3 points - coming in from other country league
4 points - coming in from VFL/SANFL/Metro comp WRFL/EDFL ETC
5 points - coming in from another club inside the same league/ ex AFL player
Gees that would blow Deer Parks points out the water then ay.
the league have stated at committee of management meetings that they want extra clubs, but they didnt fight hard enough to get Burnside onboard, simple, they went to the EDFL because they were so professional in there approach to get them, whilst the WRFL didnt try hard enough.
What i cant understand after all the whinging about Pt Cook not putting there seniors in our league, the WRFL (well i mean certain junior only clubs who have full voting rights which i disagree with) allow another club in (pegs) who have seniors but they have them in the ammos and have no intention at coming to the WRFL amaizes me.
Why the comp will never be close to eveness is that certain clubs just dont have enough $$$$ to recruit better players.
Have a look at Divi 2 at how much certain clubs (parkside 90K and ect) have as a budget. Its only going to get worse as young players now just expect big $$$s even in there first year. But you cant blame them as certain clubs (DP) oops, even offer kids $$$ from a certain young club from the same area to come over. What chance has any club running a small budget have. They have to make there budget larger so they can compete with the big boys.
What do we do? I dont know.
zedsdeadbaby
Debutant
- Sep 20, 2011
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not sure if its still in place but i was of the opinion that the Mornington Peninsula/Nepean league had a points system in place...found this online but its a few years old...
MORNINGTON PENINSULA NEPEAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE
PLAYER POINTS SYSTEM 2010
OVERVIEW
PLAYER POINTS SYSTEM 2010
OVERVIEW
A total of 39 points is allowed for each senior home and away or finals
MPNFL match. The total is based on the aggregate points of 22 players per
senior team in the match. All players receive a base level of one point.
Additional points ratings between 1 & 6 are based on the level of competition
that the player has competed at (the higher the level the higher the points
rating).MPNFL match. The total is based on the aggregate points of 22 players per
senior team in the match. All players receive a base level of one point.
Additional points ratings between 1 & 6 are based on the level of competition
that the player has competed at (the higher the level the higher the points
a pretty highly respected league so probably does work for them...
think its worth waiting to see what deer park bring to the table in 2012 before any such system would even be considered. the gap between the top couple and the rest seemed to close last year so who's to say it wont happen again.
coldog
Debutant
I really dont know why in this day and age that a player coming straight out of Under 18s thinks that they deserve some $$$ to just play football, the answer is, THEY DON'T until they can prove to a club that they deserve it.
When it boils down to it, Senior Football has turned semi-professional now (which is a dissapointment!) and the lower ranked clubs may even die unless these rules change.
Our level of football was a few years ago mostly amateur, but thats gone out of the window now, loyalty to your local club has been tossed on its head and its whoever will pay the most wins.
I just wonder if a player would rather play in a premiership with his closest mates or play in a premiership with a team of guys just there for the money. Ill tell you at this point in time 20 out of 21 WRFL Senior Teams pay players match payments, only 1 does not (only paying their best players on the day)!
That one team relies on the old values of loyalty to the club etc., and some cash for being the best player on the day generally goes over the bar for a cold one after a hard match.
I agree with this points system that is being considered but I have to say, every league in the land has to be doing this, this is to even out the playing field.
I hope the younger generation see that "Only the very best players deserve cash!!" They need to get themselves established and playing great senior football before they should consider asking for money.
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