Wrighty's Trading Smarts.

[GCPie]

I thought it was great to hear Fly in the presser saying how good of a job that Wrighty has done with respect to trades.

Last night 2 players traded for last year kicked over 50% of the score.

How great it is to see someone competent looking after the list.

Imagine what he can get done when we have finished paying off the Treloar and Grundy commitments.

 

[manicpie]

I thought it was great to hear Fly in the presser saying how good of a job that Wrighty has done with respect to trades.

Last night 2 players traded for last year kicked over 50% of the score.

How great it is to see someone competent looking after the list.

Imagine what he can get done when we have finished paying off the Treloar and Grundy commitments.

Pity we can't say the same about Hine

 

[Black_White]

Pity we can't say the same about Hine

One kick away from a Premiership under Hine.

 

[manicpie]

One kick away from a Premiership under Hine.

It's one too many kicks for me. His record in the last 5 years has been average

 

[anshell]

Pity we can't say the same about Hine

Exactly.A lot of good father sons and some smart trading with other clubs in recent years has papered over the cracks in his drafting,which has been underwhelming for a number of years,

 

[JLC]

I thought it was great to hear Fly in the presser saying how good of a job that Wrighty has done with respect to trades.

Last night 2 players traded for last year kicked over 50% of the score.

How great it is to see someone competent looking after the list.

Imagine what he can get done when we have finished paying off the Treloar and Grundy commitments.

I think it also helps that we have a working game plan / blue print.

Make it much easier to recruit.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[jc37]

Pity we can't say the same about Hine

Hine has done a tremendous job

Firstly he would be a big part of the decision to recruit the likes of Frampton, Markov, Hill, McStay and Mitchell.

Secondly taking away the NGA and father/son prospects he has done well with whom he has recruited in what is a game of predicting the future.

McCreery, Ginnivan, Cox, Mihocek, Murphy, Noble, Maynard, Johnson are all players picked out of the 1st round.

de Goey and Pendlebury he was accused of picking them too high when he did.

If anything we have not given Hine enough picks to work with having traded out many 2nd rounders over the years for players.

 

[manicpie]

Hine has done a tremendous job

Firstly he would be a big part of the decision to recruit the likes of Frampton, Markov, Hill, McStay and Mitchell.

Secondly taking away the NGA and father/son prospects he has done well with whom he has recruited in what is a game of predicting the future.

McCreery, Ginnivan, Cox, Mihocek, Murphy, Noble, Maynard, Johnson are all players picked out of the 1st round.

de Goey and Pendlebury he was accused of picking them too high when he did.

If anything we have not given Hine enough picks to work with having traded out many 2nd rounders over the years for players.

Our current midfield depth consists of Ed Allen. Macrae is average at best. Our developing KP players are Dean and Freddy. Hine would not have had a say on those players you mentioned, that's Wright's role. Geelong haven't had a first round in years and they seem to do alright.

 

[Ugene41]

Our current midfield depth consists of Ed Allen. Macrae is average at best. Our developing KP players are Dean and Freddy. Hine would not have had a say on those players you mentioned, that's Wright's role. Geelong haven't had a first round in years and they seem to do alright.

I guess it must then be Wright's fault for turning Hine's first round pick in Henry and a top 5 performer from that draft class into a late second round pick via trade then.

 

[manicpie]

I guess it must then be Wright's fault for turning Hine's first round pick in Henry and a top 5 performer from that draft class into a late second round pick via trade then.

What's the blame game got to do with it? my point is that hine is overrated, simple.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's one too many kicks for me. His record in the last 5 years has been average

Harsh

McCreery has become a mainstay. Ginnivan has been magnificent for a rookie pick. Oliver has turned into a decent player, pity he didn’t want to stay, but that’s not Hine’s fault. Macrae and Allan have shown enough for the club to give them long term contracts. Our mid year draft selections have done very well.

 

[Ugene41]

What's the blame game got to do with it? my point is that hine is overrated, simple.

In the 18 years that Hine has been in charge of drafting, we've had a list that has managed to be consistently in the finals and challenge from 2006-2012 and 2018-2020 and now 2022+. We can argue that the current list is still part of the same 2018 era but the fact remains that only Geelong/Sydney/Hawthorn (less so hawks now) have been able to maintain that consistency without years of bottoming out for top 5 picks.

In the drafts that we have decided to invest open first round picks in, Hine has generally done quite well. His early highlights were obviously 2005/2006 and 2008. But in the Buckley rebuild, 2014 set us up whilst he still managed to grab a top 5 player in 2012 despite having late first rounders in a shallow draft. 2013 is really his only big bust due to injuries.

In the Macrae era rebuild we look like one of the teams with the best 2020 crop whilst 2022 also looks promising.

 

[SchuPie]

McCreery has become a mainstay

His first quarter on Thurs was fantastic
If this guy ever starts getting ~25 touches a game, look out

 

[Vicky Park]

In the 18 years that Hine has been in charge of drafting, we've had a list that has managed to be consistently in the finals and challenge from 2006-2012 and 2018-2020 and now 2022+. We can argue that the current list is still part of the same 2018 era but the fact remains that only Geelong/Sydney/Hawthorn (less so hawks now) have been able to maintain that consistency without years of bottoming out for top 5 picks.

In the drafts that we have decided to invest open first round picks in, Hine has generally done quite well. His early highlights were obviously 2005/2006 and 2008. But in the Buckley rebuild, 2014 set us up whilst he still managed to grab a top 5 player in 2012 despite having late first rounders in a shallow draft. 2013 is really his only big bust due to injuries.

In the Macrae era rebuild we look like one of the teams with the best 2020 crop whilst 2022 also looks promising.

Just to correct, we played finals in 2013, so 2006-2013.

 

[No SPIN]

Our current midfield depth consists of Ed Allen. Macrae is average at best. Our developing KP players are Dean and Freddy. Hine would not have had a say on those players you mentioned, that's Wright's role. Geelong haven't had a first round in years and they seem to do alright.

When you have a close to 90% win rate on your home ground, and therefore guaranteed 8-9 wins a year, resulting in an easy route to finals, your recruiting looks better than it is.

 

[ipswichpies]

When you have a close to 90% win rate on your home ground, and therefore guaranteed 8-9 wins a year, resulting in an easy route to finals, your recruiting looks better than it is.

That same thing also apply,s to Geelong even more so than the Pies and everyone always claims they have the best recruiter, how many home games have the Cats won with Wells in charge.

Whether we like it or Hines hands have often been tied,4 1st rounds between Beams and Treloar and Stephenson nobody saw that coming.

I do think rookie picks,MSD and late draft picks have been Hines speciality and just being fair those 4 picks and Stevo going the course may have alter some peoples view of Hine. Murphy was p39 not bad Ginnivan and McCreey excellent picks,I always thought Sharonberg and Freeman were good picks too but injury was cruel to both and us also.

 

[ThePheonix]

That same thing also apply,s to Geelong even more so than the Pies and everyone always claims they have the best recruiter, how many home games have the Cats won with Wells in charge.

Whether we like it or Hines hands have often been tied,4 1st rounds between Beams and Treloar and Stephenson nobody saw that coming.

I do think rookie picks,MSD and late draft picks have been Hines speciality and just being fair those 4 picks and Stevo going the course may have alter some peoples view of Hine. Murphy was p39 not bad Ginnivan and McCreey excellent picks,I always thought Sharonberg and Freeman were good picks too but injury was cruel to both and us also.

Freman was a horrible pick, his injury did not affect his career, was never going to make it at AFL level.

Hine is overrated, apart from his early years, which none can complain he did amazingly, has declined since and now only seems to be able to pick work horse type of players, which you have mentioned.

 

[Markfs]

Judging Hine or Wright individually is hard because their impact depends so much on what others do. Wright appears to be a better football manager than Geoff Walsh. Walsh should never have let his coach drive the agenda of trading treloar etc, even if buckley volunteered. It broke Buckley's relationship with the players. Walsh also allowed the list to get into that state. I think Wright has done well considering his circumstances.

Hine has picked some good players but players success often depends on player development and the coach. Advocates for Hine point to his success stories but the reality is that Hine hasn't picked a tall from the roughies. Of the "talls" who played on thurs - Murphy, Moore, Mihocek, Howe, McStay, Cox and Cameron - only Murphy was picked by Hine. It's a consistent story. Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

was probably his last tall pick of any consequence. His advocates might say that buckley didnt like talls. Well if that's the case, you can't give Hine sole credit for recruitment which I agree with anyway. The addition of McStay, Cameron, Frampton, Begg and Steene in the last two years is a real indication that the list was out of whack. Blame who you want.

 

[Ugene41]

Judging Hine or Wright individually is hard because their impact depends so much on what others do. Wright appears to be a better football manager than Geoff Walsh. Walsh should never have let his coach drive the agenda of trading treloar etc, even if buckley volunteered. It broke Buckley's relationship with the players. Walsh also allowed the list to get into that state. I think Wright has done well considering his circumstances.

Hine has picked some good players but players success often depends on player development and the coach. Advocates for Hine point to his success stories but the reality is that Hine hasn't picked a tall from the roughies. Of the "talls" who played on thurs - Murphy, Moore, Mihocek, Howe, McStay, Cox and Cameron - only Murphy was picked by Hine. It's a consistent story. Brodie Grundy was probably his last tall pick of any consequence. His advocates might say that buckley didnt like talls. Well if that's the case, you can't give Hine sole credit for recruitment which I agree with anyway. The addition of McStay, Cameron, Frampton, Begg and Steene in the last two years is a real indication that the list was out of whack. Blame who you want.

Agree with the first paragraph.

Murphy, Mihocek and Cox were all drafted by Hine though? I'd also suggest someone like Cameron who had played 2 games before we traded for him would've been scouted by Hine and his team playing VFL/NEAFL.

 

[Markfs]

Agree with the first paragraph.

Murphy, Mihocek and Cox were all drafted by Hine though? I'd also suggest someone like Cameron who had played 2 games before we traded for him would've been scouted by Hine and his team playing VFL/NEAFL.

From Wiki....

Cox was invited to attend the 2014 US International Combine for potential Australian rules footballers, in Los Angeles in April 2014. After impressive performances in the skills testing,[13] he travelled to Australia for a second combine and on May 30, 2014, was signed by the Collingwood Football Club.[14][15] AFL teams Port Adelaide, North Melbourne,[16] Richmond, and Fremantle were also reported as having shown interest in recruiting Cox.[10]

Four clubs showed interest and COX CHOSE THE PIES....my understanding is that isnt recruitment...

As for Mihocek, he was playing in the VFL. There is a little-known secret that Collingwood has a team in the VFL. Port Melb played Collingwood twice in 2017. Often coaches and club officials attend these matches and would have seen Mihocek. You be the judge if that is recruitment.

There is a case that these two cases were recruitment, because Hine was unbelievably both the list manager and the recruitment manager simultaneously at one point in time. No wonder the books went out of control at the end of 2020....

 

[Mollythedolly]

From Wiki....

Cox was invited to attend the 2014 US International Combine for potential Australian rules footballers, in Los Angeles in April 2014. After impressive performances in the skills testing,[13] he travelled to Australia for a second combine and on May 30, 2014, was signed by the Collingwood Football Club.[14][15] AFL teams Port Adelaide, North Melbourne,[16] Richmond, and Fremantle were also reported as having shown interest in recruiting Cox.[10]

Four clubs showed interest and COX CHOSE THE PIES....my understanding is that isnt recruitment...

As for Mihocek, he was playing in the VFL. There is a little-known secret that Collingwood has a team in the VFL. Port Melb played Collingwood twice in 2017. Often coaches and club officials attend these matches and would have seen Mihocek. You be the judge if that is recruitment.

There is a case that these two cases were recruitment, because Hine was unbelievably both the list manager and the recruitment manager simultaneously at one point in time. No wonder the books went out of control at the end of 2020....

Gee, you're happy to throw some really arbitrary delineation about in this discussion. Hine definitely deserves credit for Cox signing. Hine attended those early USA draft combines. It's thanks to Hine's work with Cox that he chose Collingwood.

Mihocek was also recruited by Hine. He's the guy who calls out the names at the draft. He takes the credit/criticism for those calls. That other recruiters had also seen him is irrelevant. Same goes for just about every player drafted, and they'd had a few years to see Checkers at VFL level before he was drafted.

 

[JoinDate]

That same thing also apply,s to Geelong even more so than the Pies and everyone always claims they have the best recruiter, how many home games have the Cats won with Wells in charge.

Pretty sure he was talking about Geelong not Collingwood.

 

[Scud2]

11th preliminary final this century.

2002
2003
2007
2009
2010
2011
2012
2018
2019
2022
2023

You can’t point to anyone in list management and recruiting and say they have done a bad job when the proof is there, especially when you factor in the evolution of the game. Yes, you can argue one flag - but gee whiz you have to get a lot right to be that close. It also happens to be that four of the greatest dynasties in AFL history have been up there at the same time.
The 2001-04 Lions
The 2007-11 Cats
The 2012-16 Hawks
The 2017-20 Tigers
During every one of those dynasties, I reckon there was a stage where they would have all been very scared of the Pies.

 

[Mark W]

11th preliminary final this century.

2002
2003
2007
2009
2010
2011
2012
2018
2019
2022
2023

You can’t point to anyone in list management and recruiting and say they have done a bad job when the proof is there, especially when you factor in the evolution of the game. Yes, you can argue one flag - but gee whiz you have to get a lot right to be that close. It also happens to be that four of the greatest dynasties in AFL history have been up there at the same time.
The 2001-04 Lions
The 2007-11 Cats
The 2012-16 Hawks
The 2017-20 Tigers
During every one of those dynasties, I reckon there was a stage where they would have all been very scared of the Pies.

I doubt the 2012-16 Hawks were to scared of the Pies, we werent very good at that time

 

[ipswichpies]

Freman was a horrible pick, his injury did not affect his career, was never going to make it at AFL level.

Hine is overrated, apart from his early years, which none can complain he did amazingly, has declined since and now only seems to be able to pick work horse type of players, which you have mentioned.

How can you say injury did not affect Freemans career it ended it, he had great pace good size for someone who was just drafted poor disposal but player,s who are going to be at the coalface often do.