Society/Culture WW3: Would you enlist to fight for Australia?

[Checkers_Nixon]

Hi guys,

I had an interesting discussion with a friend at lunch today regarding a WW3 hypothetical:

If Australia was drawn in to WW3, would you enlist and fight?

It is an interesting question, because the last "mass enlistment" was obviously back in WW2. At that time, there was no question that Australia was a Nation State with a relatively homogenous population. In contrast, today we effectively live in a Market State, with a "diverse" population with no common racial, religious, or cultural foundation (at least that is the way we are heading). Would people still enlist to defend this country?

I am interested in your opinions. History shows that when wealth is concentrated on a particular region, there is usually a period of prosperity, followed by war, followed by peace. If you look at the 20th century, when wealth was concentrated around the North Atlantic/Europe we saw two world wars, and very nearly a third. In the 21st century, we are seeing wealth concentrated around the pacific rim nations...

 

[KevinCat07]

Any true patriot would. After all this country gives to us it's only right. I would also bring back conscription for those who are unemployed and are under the age of 21. National service would be a sensational thing to develop a young man's confidence and would really make him a contributer to the nation. The problem this generation faces is thinking that "negotioating" with our enemies will solve everything - it dosen't.

I personally believe the most likely drive behind WW3 will be Arabic Islamists vs the western civilised world. Islam is trying to take over the world thorugh overpopulation, and when they do outnumber us, they will strike - to have our laws, our customs and our ideals changed to theirs.

I think there would be a lot of younger aussie males for the picking for National service - just scour the suburbs like Narre Warren, Dandenong etc where unemployment rates are high and make them fight for the good of the nation. Of course we don't want worse to come to worst, but they would be otherwise useless (productivity wise)

 

[Fire]

It entirely depends.

Would I fight for Australia in any imaginable sitation?

No.

 

[Checkers_Nixon]

Any true patriot would. After all this country gives to us it's only right. I would also bring back conscription for those who are unemployed and are under the age of 21. National service would be a sensational thing to develop a young man's confidence and would really make him a contributer to the nation. The problem this generation faces is thinking that "negotioating" with our enemies will solve everything - it dosen't.

I personally believe the most likely drive behind WW3 will be Arabic Islamists vs the western civilised world. Islam is trying to take over the world thorugh overpopulation, and when they do outnumber us, they will strike - to have our laws, our customs and our ideals changed to theirs.

I think there would be a lot of younger aussie males for the picking for National service - just scour the suburbs like Narre Warren, Dandenong etc where unemployment rates are high and make them fight for the good of the nation. Of course we don't want worse to come to worst, but they would be otherwise useless (productivity wise)

Great Post.

I completely agree on national service for young people. Essentially I think every 18yo (male and female) when they finish high school should go into 1 year of national service. The national service could be completed at any time before turning 21 - once to turn 21 you then get "full citizenship" (i.e. right to vote etc).

This "full citizenship" system works really well in other countries. It would also provide real benefit to young men and women - they would learn some important life skills - for example, young women (who would obviously not be involved in combat training), would learn other important skills like nursing, cooking, clothes repair. Young guys (many of whom have grown up in front of the tv on the couch) would be forced to get outdoors and learn some military skills. It would work wonders for the obesity crisis.

I disagree on the likely cause of WW3. I believe Islam is a threat - but more so a demographic threat because they our out-breeding us while at the same time government policy is encouraging Australians to have abortions. That is a demographic threat and in the long run will result in the internal fracturing of society (i.e. civil war) but not a state v state conventional military conflict. I maintain that the Chinese represent the single biggest threat to peace.

 

[Checkers_Nixon]

It entirely depends.

Would I fight for Australia an aby imaginable sitation?

No.

Well the situation is WW3. Why wouldnt you enlist?

 

[RisingPhoenix]

. I would also bring back conscription for those who are unemployed and are under the age of 21. )

Conscription for the unemployed is a wonderful sounding populist idea, but in reality its an awful idea. With all due respect to the unemployed, quite often these people are unemployed for a reason.

If they cant hold a job, i sure as hell dont want them holding a machine gun. As for conscripting those under 21....again, how mature and capable is your average 18/19/20 year old? If we are just loading them up as cannon fodder to mount wave after wave of suicide assaults, fine, but you would really have to question the caliber of defence the sorts of people you have mentioned would be capable of mounting.

 

[The OBSTacle]

I come from the working class, so I qualify as one of Australias true victims. I can't truly answer until I know what the invaders are offering.

If the invaders are going to liberate me from a brainwashed, corporate dominatd, single party state masquerading as a dual party state, then they can have my vote.

Even if the invaders were worse than the current lot, I can't see myself putting my life on the line.

 

[The OBSTacle]

I would also bring back conscription for those who are unemployed and are under the age of 21.

You would need the backing of the Australian population at a referendum first.

 

[Checkers_Nixon]

Conscription for the unemployed is a wonderful sounding populist idea, but in reality its an awful idea. With all due respect to the unemployed, quite often these people are unemployed for a reason.

If they cant hold a job, i sure as hell dont want them holding a machine gun. As for conscripting those under 21....again, how mature and capable is your average 18/19/20 year old? If we are just loading them up as cannon fodder to mount wave after wave of suicide assaults, fine, but you would really have to question the caliber of defence the sorts of people you have mentioned would be capable of mounting.

Obviously KC is proposing that these conscripts be trained.

National Service has 3 benefits (1) it increases the pool of available soldiers, (2) the conscript learns some important skills and life lessons during the year of national service, and (3) the nation benefits because each generation has been upskilled.

Also you assume that the unemployed would necesarily be issued with a fire arm. National Service takes many forms - if the unemployed person is not of sufficient apptitude for defence duties he could be re-deployed on other "nation building" activities like road works, manual labour of mine sites, providing manual labour in factories.

Everyone makes a contribution...not necessarily with a gun.

 

[Suspense]

Hi guys,

I had an interesting discussion with a friend at lunch today regarding a WW3 hypothetical:

If Australia was drawn in to WW3, would you enlist and fight?

It is an interesting question, because the last "mass enlistment" was obviously back in WW2. At that time, there was no question that Australia was a Nation State with a relatively homogenous population. In contrast, today we effectively live in a Market State, with a "diverse" population with no common racial, religious, or cultural foundation (at least that is the way we are heading). Would people still enlist to defend this country?

I am interested in your opinions. History shows that when wealth is concentrated on a particular region, there is usually a period of prosperity, followed by war, followed by peace. If you look at the 20th century, when wealth was concentrated around the North Atlantic/Europe we saw two world wars, and very nearly a third. In the 21st century, we are seeing wealth concentrated around the pacific rim nations...

Any true patriot would. After all this country gives to us it's only right. I would also bring back conscription for those who are unemployed and are under the age of 21. National service would be a sensational thing to develop a young man's confidence and would really make him a contributer to the nation. The problem this generation faces is thinking that "negotioating" with our enemies will solve everything - it dosen't.

I personally believe the most likely drive behind WW3 will be Arabic Islamists vs the western civilised world. Islam is trying to take over the world thorugh overpopulation, and when they do outnumber us, they will strike - to have our laws, our customs and our ideals changed to theirs.

I think there would be a lot of younger aussie males for the picking for National service - just scour the suburbs like Narre Warren, Dandenong etc where unemployment rates are high and make them fight for the good of the nation. Of course we don't want worse to come to worst, but they would be otherwise useless (productivity wise)

only if i can bunk with you two.

 

[rayven]

It would appear that those advocating for national service have not educated themselves with the social issue's manifested as a result of the Vietnam conflict

 

[evo]

Brad Miller has offered to go in my place.

 

[KevinCat07]

Great Post.

I completely agree on national service for young people. Essentially I think every 18yo (male and female) when they finish high school should go into 1 year of national service. The national service could be completed at any time before turning 21 - once to turn 21 you then get "full citizenship" (i.e. right to vote etc).

This "full citizenship" system works really well in other countries. It would also provide real benefit to young men and women - they would learn some important life skills - for example, young women (who would obviously not be involved in combat training), would learn other important skills like nursing, cooking, clothes repair. Young guys (many of whom have grown up in front of the tv on the couch) would be forced to get outdoors and learn some military skills. It would work wonders for the obesity crisis.

I disagree on the likely cause of WW3. I believe Islam is a threat - but more so a demographic threat because they our out-breeding us while at the same time government policy is encouraging Australians to have abortions. That is a demographic threat and in the long run will result in the internal fracturing of society (i.e. civil war) but not a state v state conventional military conflict. I maintain that the Chinese represent the single biggest threat to peace.

I can see what you mean here. Australia has always been in a torrid location - basically surrounded by Asians. The resulting abortion phenomona would be a disaster and would have disastrous consequences for future Australian military numbers. It's sad the government is so eager to encourage genocide on the unborn, whilist actively encouraging Muslims to breed like feral rabbits.

They are effectively signing Australia's death warrant.

 

[Clay Davis]

 

[Checkers_Nixon]

I can see what you mean here. Australia has always been in a torrid location - basically surrounded by Asians. The resulting abortion phenomona would be a disaster and would have disastrous consequences for future Australian military numbers. It's sad the government is so eager to encourage genocide on the unborn, whilist actively encouraging Muslims to breed like feral rabbits.

They are effectively signing Australia's death warrant.

Yes they are indeed. Rome is burning.

I recall a politician had the balls a few years back to say that Western Civilisation is aborting itself out of existence. And it is true. Abortion is the great tragedy of modern Western Civilisation. So many lives lost needlessly without being able to reach their potential as individuals and as citizens.

Just thinking of how many lives have been cut short over the last 10 years alone due to abortion is sobering. The child has been murdered, but purely from an economic point of view - think of the cost to the nation in terms of lost talent, man power, brains. Who knows what those Aussie children would have gone on to achieve had they not been killed.

 

[KevinCat07]

Conscription for the unemployed is a wonderful sounding populist idea, but in reality its an awful idea. With all due respect to the unemployed, quite often these people are unemployed for a reason.

If they cant hold a job, i sure as hell dont want them holding a machine gun. As for conscripting those under 21....again, how mature and capable is your average 18/19/20 year old? If we are just loading them up as cannon fodder to mount wave after wave of suicide assaults, fine, but you would really have to question the caliber of defence the sorts of people you have mentioned would be capable of mounting.

See Checkers post for response for your first paragraph.

Obviously these young people would be training with experienced personnel and seasoned vets who have voluntarily signed up and experienced different types of ntional service. I think being around those types of people would really fast-track them to maturity. It's like a footy team - you would have a mix of youth and experience.

 

[Checkers_Nixon]

See Checkers post for response for your first paragraph.

Obviously these young people would be training with experienced personnel and seasoned vets who have voluntarily signed up and experienced different types of ntional service. I think being around those types of people would really fast-track them to maturity. It's like a footy team - you would have a mix of youth and experience.

And I think Rising Phoenix also needs to accept that the ADF is very used to taking a recruit and breaking them down and rebuilding them into something useful.

These punk kids would show up at National Service with a cocky attitude...which would be wiped of their faces within about 5 seconds. Abit of discipline would go along way. The ADF would have these kids wipped into shape within a few weeks.

 

[Niximus]

Embryo = Human, deserves rights.

Unemployed teenager = Force them off to die in a war against their will.

LOL interesting morals there.

 

[Monniehawk]

Any true patriot would. After all this country gives to us it's only right. I would also bring back conscription for those who are unemployed and are under the age of 21. National service would be a sensational thing to develop a young man's confidence and would really make him a contributer to the nation. The problem this generation faces is thinking that "negotioating" with our enemies will solve everything - it dosen't.

I personally believe the most likely drive behind WW3 will be Arabic Islamists vs the western civilised world. Islam is trying to take over the world thorugh overpopulation, and when they do outnumber us, they will strike - to have our laws, our customs and our ideals changed to theirs.

I think there would be a lot of younger aussie males for the picking for National service - just scour the suburbs like Narre Warren, Dandenong etc where unemployment rates are high and make them fight for the good of the nation. Of course we don't want worse to come to worst, but they would be otherwise useless (productivity wise)

Well done, John Wayne! Any more phobic theories? Dangerous stuff!
Conscientious Objectors test the conventional logic of warmongering. They were proved right in Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Iraq and a myriad of other places.
Try reading "All quiet on the Western Front" for a (German) soldier's view of war, rather than the glorified images you seem to have gleaned from too many Hollywood heroes.
The 'good of the nation' invariably translates into 'protect the interests of the status quo' and the privileged.
It would appear that the first priority of conscription is for working class youth to be the cannon fodder. Qualifications required: young, dumb, low socio-economic and unemployed!? Too many mates got screwed by war to convince me it developed their confidence and made them a "contributor"! Made a couple of them corpses! Why should my sons pack off to risk their lives to protect phobic nutters and oil companies from imaginary foes? Why should they travel halfway round the world to shoot someone they don't even know - all on the say so of a paranoid BF poster?
Find a 'just' war, not a sham war! If you have a paranoia about Islam, don't expect everyone else to share it just to manufacture a conflict that only exists in the mind of a handful of extremists (of either side)!
And Islam's secret weapon is to blow us away with a huge population explosion??!!
Now that's what I call a BIG BANG theory!!

 

[RisingPhoenix]

Obviously KC is proposing that these conscripts be trained.

National Service has 3 benefits (1) it increases the pool of available soldiers, (2) the conscript learns some important skills and life lessons during the year of national service, and (3) the nation benefits because each generation has been upskilled.

Also you assume that the unemployed would necesarily be issued with a fire arm. National Service takes many forms - if the unemployed person is not of sufficient apptitude for defence duties he could be re-deployed on other "nation building" activities like road works, manual labour of mine sites, providing manual labour in factories.

Everyone makes a contribution...not necessarily with a gun.

The problem you will have no matter where you place conscripts is if they dont want to be there, they are liable to be as useless as your proverbial breasts on a bull. The likelihood of finding 'problematic' conscripts I would argue, only goes up when you target the unemployed and very young.

If we are going to have such a scheme, it needs to be put in place prior to hostilities, in order to instill a work ethic and discipline. If you just bring it in when war breaks out, all you will achieve is a lot of dead Australians.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Embryo = Human, deserves rights.

Unemployed teenager = Force them off to die in a war against their will.

LOL interesting morals there.

Touche.

 

[ghost65]

I would gladly join up if i was needed to admister spiritual aid to the soldiers in the front line.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Why would there be a third world war?

 

[ghost65]

I think this is a hypothetical situation.

 

[Checkers_Nixon]

Well done, John Wayne! Any more phobic theories? Dangerous stuff!
Conscientious Objectors test the conventional logic of warmongering. They were proved right in Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Iraq and a myriad of other places.
Try reading "All quiet on the Western Front" for a (German) soldier's view of war, rather than the glorified images you seem to have gleaned from too many Hollywood heroes.
The 'good of the nation' invariably translates into 'protect the interests of the status quo' and the privileged.
It would appear that the first priority of conscription is for working class youth to be the cannon fodder. Qualifications required: young, dumb, low socio-economic and unemployed!? Too many mates got screwed by war to convince me it developed their confidence and made them a "contributor"! Made a couple of them corpses! Why should my sons pack off to risk their lives to protect phobic nutters and oil companies from imaginary foes? Why should they travel halfway round the world to shoot someone they don't even know - all on the say so of a paranoid BF poster?
Find a 'just' war, not a sham war! If you have a paranoia about Islam, don't expect everyone else to share it just to manufacture a conflict that only exists in the mind of a handful of extremists (of either side)!
And Islam's secret weapon is to blow us away with a huge population explosion??!!
Now that's what I call a BIG BANG theory!!

A white feather for you.

You are a coward and the exact type of person we do not need in this country.

Will conscripts of overwhelmingly drawn from the unemployed? Probably - but so they should - afterall during war time every individual must ask where they can best apply their skills for the good of the nation. For an uneducated enemployed dole bludger, training them up in the army could well be the making of them. Would you rather they continue their meaningless existence living from dole cheque to dole cheque blowing their money on the pokies each week? The army might help to straighten them out or at the very least at least they will die for a noble cause on the battlefield.