York Park vs Bellerive Oval

[Devilcat]

OMG. They might have a good stadium in Inceston, but nicely done on the siren. There goes AFL in Tasmania.

 

[Tim_in_Philly]

1300 free tickets from what I have seen in promotions about the place so it's still a terrific turn-out.

I was in Hobart last week - 2,000 tickets available if you could be bothered going into a post office in Hobart to pick them up. No doubt there were other "promotions" around the state.

 

[kempos_kingz_05]

Lol what a joke york park is. Couldnt they afford a siren. It was nice having afl in tassie so much for that now!

 

[PHX]

I was in Hobart last week - 2,000 tickets available if you could be bothered going into a post office in Hobart to pick them up. No doubt there were other "promotions" around the state.

Make that 3,300 then because in the north there were 500 available at the devils game at aurora, another 500 given away and promotions here would've come to around 300. We had no Post Office give aways in the north.


Also it's not Aurora's fault the umpire couldnt hear it, the players could.

 

[Kingpin]

Lol what a joke york park is. Couldnt they afford a siren. It was nice having afl in tassie so much for that now!

For what it's worth, York Park is a far better venue than any half-finished crap we have in the South.
Christ I wish they'd do up North Hobart, expand the playing surface and build bigger stands
Also too, not one ground in the state that would be capable of hosting big matches like that has a decent siren that is audible on big crowd days.
I know I can be critical of things here, but I really don't think you can blame Launceston for what happened.
The responsibilty lies directly with the AFL who ok'd it in the first place, and I seriously doubt that the AFL would be stupid enough to pull games from the state - their clubs wouldn't want to throw away the chance of bleeding the state dry of more money would they?

You know what the greedy AFL is like?
Personally, I'd like to see nothing more than the AFL fall apart, or at least, a better awareness in the sport that there has been more than one league and sixteen clubs involved the history of the sport, and start looking after ALL football.

 

[Marklar_33]

We need the siren from Evandale Rec Ground


Bzzzzzzzzzt

 

[Lutters]

as part of my university studies, I'm going to be researching and then writing about the 'North/South divide' of Tasmanian football - focusing in particular on the political struggle between the State Government and AFL Tasmania, and also on the parochialism that seems to exist within the Northern and Southern Tasmanian football communities.

basically, the biggest issue in recent Tasmanian football history seems to have been the debate on which venue is most appropriate to host AFL football - York Park or Bellerive Oval. so, I want to know your views on the issue.

therefore, I'm conducting a poll on which venue YOU think is best suited to AFL football.

some factors you might want to consider include:

- player facilities
- spectator facilities
- geographic location

and any other factor you consider to be important when making your decision.


there are only two options in this poll (which reflects my view that there are only two viable venues for AFL football in Tasmania - if you have a differing view, express it), and the poll results will be used later down the track.


furthermore, if you think you have something interesting to say on the issue, say it. we might even get a half decent thread of it this.

anyway, vote!

Well I think York park satisifies all of those criteria. It has great seating, a better surface, changerooms etc all designed for football and it is in a great location.easy access etc.I think you can't put bellrieve on a par cos 2/3 of the state as to travel more a fair distance to get to hobart where as launceston is more central to the south and northwest. All in all york park is a better ground and bellrieve is made for cricket. York Park all the way

 

[BlueBudgie]

Does any one have a breakdown on the crowd numbers since AFL games have been played at York Park?

Also I thought AFL Tasmania recommendation on where games should be played was that after two games were played at York Park one should have been played at Bellerive. But were over ruled by the Bacon State Government.
Anyway this dose not matter as from after next year when St Kilda pull out, there will only be the two Hawthorn games a year unless they can attract another Melbourne based team down. Unfortunately York Park has been blasted by the Melbourne media as not being up to AFL standard all due to the siren, Feel sorry for Captain Gronawagon he will be remedied for his famous call on the Quantas flight and now having installed a little hooter!


BlueBudgie

 

[Lutters]

For what it's worth, York Park is a far better venue than any half-finished crap we have in the South.
Christ I wish they'd do up North Hobart, expand the playing surface and build bigger stands
Also too, not one ground in the state that would be capable of hosting big matches like that has a decent siren that is audible on big crowd days.
I know I can be critical of things here, but I really don't think you can blame Launceston for what happened.
The responsibilty lies directly with the AFL who ok'd it in the first place, and I seriously doubt that the AFL would be stupid enough to pull games from the state - their clubs wouldn't want to throw away the chance of bleeding the state dry of more money would they?

I agree. The AFL have rostered matches there before so it was obviously considered up to standard. They now say it has to be upgraded, which I don't disagree with, but shouldn't they have spotted it to start with and recommended we upgrade it beforehand. I hardly think Launceston, York Park and Rob Groenewagen (If thats his name and how you spell it) should be blamed. They've fixed it now anyway.

AFL will remain until Hawthorn's contract runs out anyway. We pay enough money to the AFL for them to keep coming and Hawthorn seem pretty happy to keep coming down here so I doubt this will change their mind. Especially seeing the problem has been fixed.

York Park is head and shoulders above any other ground in Tas when being used for football. AFL matches should be played there. No boubt in my mind about that.

 

[Kingpin]

York Park is head and shoulders above any other ground in Tas when being used for football. AFL matches should be played there. No boubt in my mind about that.

My honest opinion is, that at the moment, the football should be held at York
Park until Bellerive Oval is significantly upgraded to be capable of hosting AFL football.
The Southern Stand at the ground is good, but the river side of the ground, which contains the small single storey stand with Betfair hoardings in the back of it, the CDCC, and the AGC Pavilion needs to be demolished and the Stand extended right round to the new TCA buildings behind the Church Street goal.
I don't see a problem with the hill being retained, but those things listed above need to be looked at.
Also too, there needs to be significant addressing of the access problems to the ground, by way of long queues and difficulty of patrons accessing the area.
If these problems were sorted out, then yes, I think Bellerive should be awarded a game or two.
I think football should be played at both grounds in the future if the standrard of the venues are up to par.
The southern-region would definately benefit from hosting an AFL game in the future, as to be honest with you, it needs it.
I don't need to remind anybody of just how close to collapse, football is in the South of the state.
It's shambolic to say the least, and the AFL itself has aided and abetted the demise of the game here in many ways.

 

[TigerFan]

did my Wade interview on Wednesday night - will post the transcript at some stage over the weekend

 

[The Majestic]

did my Wade interview on Wednesday night - will post the transcript at some stage over the weekend

Looking forward to it.

 

[irish]

siren works at bellerive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oops sorry york park maybe you should have spent another 100 bucks during the upgrade !! hehehe

 

[TigerFan]

here it is.

sit down, make yourself a nice cup of tea and enjoy the ride...

Matt Cooke: So how long have you been in the job?

Scott Wade: I’ve been in the job since the First of November 1999 – so this is my seventh season in the job.

MC: Ok, well it’s been a pretty eventful reign for you as general manager of AFL Tasmania. During the past six years, we’ve gained the business of two AFL teams, seen York Park evolve into a world class stadium, had 16 kids drafted to senior AFL lists and we’ve established a pretty successful VFL team along the way. So what do you consider to be your greatest achievement as general manager of AFL Tasmania?

SW: I think it’s about the positioning of AFL Tasmania as the governing body.

Prior to 1999, there were three separate leagues – the Southern League, the North-West league and the Northern league – they were all independent of one another, and there was no overarching body in Tasmania that covered the whole state. So, we’ve got every league and association – umpiring associations, junior leagues, senior leagues – every competition in the state is now directly affiliated with AFL Tasmania – and we’ve pretty much got a united football entity now.

The game’s been played for 130-plus years in Tasmania, and that’s never happened. We’ve got a few little relationship issues to deal with, but, generally, I think the greatest achievement has been the united voice of Tasmanian footy.

MC: So, before you took over, there wasn’t really any unity?

SW: No, there was certainly no unity.

In Tasmania, we still have parochial issues – North/South issues – that come up, but generally, in a footy sense, I think virtually 100% of people who are interested in Australian footy in Tasmania would know that AFL Tasmania is the governing body. They’d know that we’re in charge of overseeing things. We don’t run… we don’t conduct and operate and control every league and association – they’re all separate legal entities, and they all have separate authority over their competitions – but we sit across the top as the people responsible for the growth and development and promotion of the game – at all levels and in all areas.

So, if the Smithton football club want some help with a problem, or if the Scottsdale footy club want some help, or if the Kermandie football club want some help – no matter where they are in the state – we’ll help them.

So there’s that, and I think the VFL team’s been… the Tasmanian Devils have been a great initiative and I think that the change in the Tassie Mariners program – we’ve now got a football academy program – and we’ve had sixteen players drafted in the last three years compared to, I think, 5 in the three years prior to that.

So, the Devils, our talent pathway and the united voice of football in Tasmania are the three things I’m most proud of. And we’re operating in profit, which is also pretty good.

MC: Despite your relative success at the higher levels (i.e. admittance to the VFL), interest in local football seems to have dwindled in recent years. For example, after pulling a crowd of 17,094 to the TFL grand final a mere twenty years ago, crowd figures dropped to the point where only 6,124 people attended the last statewide grand final in 2000. And since the SFL replaced the statewide competition, we’ve averaged crowds of barely 5,000 for the five grand finals played since 2001. What do you think has caused these dwindling numbers? And does AFL Tasmania accept any responsibility for this as the game’s governing authority?

SW: No, we actually say the game’s more popular than it’s ever been – and we say that on the basis that the game’s now national.

The AFL only started in 1990 (when they first went from VFL to AFL), so the game’s now national, we live in a global environment and television is now the forum that watch the game through. 76% of all Tasmanians (this is AFL research) watch football on television, we have the highest player participation rate of any state in the nation – we have nearly 30,000 people playing the game.

MC: That includes Auskick?

SW: Yep, that’s right – so we have more young people playing.

Back in those days when you had the 17,000 crowds, there was no AFL footy being played in Tasmania. There was the Fitzroy experiment that happened just after that (the 1986 Grand Final), but the whole focus is on the national competition now – not on community competitions. You multiply 479,000 people by 76%… that’s 364,000 people who watch footy on television. So, that means they’re interested in the sport of footy – not just Tasmanian footy, Australian footy – and most of those supporters read the papers, follow the scores and that sort of thing.

Our game’s not global like cricket – like, nobody goes to the cricket either – but, our game’s a national game, and Tasmanians are passionate about our national competition. So, that’s why we say that the game’s more popular than it’s ever been – but people just don’t attend grassroots footy like they used to.

MC: So you think the downward trend will continue?

SW: Well, you’ve gotta compare apples with apples really (1986 compared to 2006).

In those days, there wasn’t a national competition – there was a Victorian competition, a South Australian competition and a Western Australian competition – so you have all the other states, and their trends have dropped off as well. And those other states have got AFL teams.

Nobody goes to the level below AFL football now – they’ve done well in South Australia where they’ve held about 8,000-9,000 people as the average of a game in South Australia – but it used to be 30,000-40,000 people. That’s the reality of football life – it’s all about the national competition now.

So I don’t think crowds at SFL grand finals are an indication of dwindling support for Tasmanian footy – because last year, I think we had 65,000 people attending 4 AFL games in Tasmania. So, we think the game is more popular than it’s ever been.

MC: Getting back to what you said earlier about uniting Tasmanian football – there seems to be a common criticism that AFL Tasmania is a primarily ‘Hobart’ organisation…

SW: That’s not true – we’ve got offices in Ulverstone, we’ve got offices at Aurora Stadium, and we run our development program statewide – so we’re certainly not a ‘Hobart organisation’.

Probably the best indicator of that is that we’ve got 5 decision makers – management have to carry out the policy and manage the operations of our business – but 3 out of the 5 directors live in the Northern half of the state. In terms of voting rights and the balance of power, it rests in the North – so that criticism is just rubbish really. It’s not factual.

MC: The problem is actually changing that view though…

SW: I don’t think it’s a view that we need to change really.

I’m sure if you ask anybody in the state – even in they live at Burnie – if you ask them ‘who is the governing body for footy?’ they’ll know it’s AFL Tasmania, not ‘AFL Southern Tasmania’, AFL Tasmania.

MC: Continuing along that line – a couple of years ago, Mark Baker (Tasmanian Football identity and now Federal member for Braddon) criticised AFL Tasmania for its apparent desire to base both AFL and VFL football in the Hobart region – at the expense of the North. At the time, you rejected his claims and cited the equal split of VFL games between the Northern and Southern regions as your justification for doing so. Interestingly enough, when the 2006 VFL fixture was released, it revealed a 7-4 split of Devils home games in favour of Bellerive Oval – and no VFL games on the North-West Coast. Is there a reason for this uneven split? And if Mr. Baker were to make those claims again tomorrow, how would you respond?

SW: Well, Mark Baker’s a politician, so you don’t get too concerned about what Mark Baker’s views are. Unfortunately in sport, not just in football – would-be politicians try to score points over political issues.

We don’t play games on the North West Coast anymore because the facilities aren’t adequate enough, and we don’t get strong enough support. Nowadays, the way we manage our business is North and South – we look at it as two markets, not three markets. So, there’s 5 AFL games in the North and 4 VFL games in the North – so that’s 9 high-level, quality games – and the same in the South (in fact, it’s only 7). We happened to believe at the time that we should play AFL games at both ends of the island, but we’ve had that argument, had that debate, had that discussion and the decision has been made that all AFL games should be played at Aurora Stadium.

So, that’s why we have an uneven split of VFL games, because we think that, realistically, AFL footy and VFL footy is about supporting the promotion of the game statewide.

MC: Are you getting similar levels of support at both ends of the state?

SW: Oh no, much stronger in the South.

MC: Moving on, at the time of St Kilda’s York Park agreement with the State Government, you went on the record as saying that AFL Tasmania wanted AFL Football to be played in Hobart. Do you still harbour ambitions for AFL football to be played in the State capital? And if you do, what steps does AFL Tasmania intend to take in order to realise this ambition?

SW: AFL Tasmania has no view on AFL football games at this time.

There’s an agreement in place from now until 2010 between the government, the AFL and ourselves – and they dictate that AFL games will be played at Aurora Stadium until 2010.

Whether agreements change beyond 2010? We’ll wait and see.

Our football stadium is Aurora Stadium. As I said, we’ve had the debate, we thought at the time that we were right – whether we were right or whether we were wrong is irrelevant because the people who make the decisions are the AFL – and they’ve determined that all games will be played at Aurora Stadium.

MC: You may remember, in the late 1990s, an unsuccessful proposal was put forward to construct a 30,000-seat stadium in the Hobart showgrounds precinct – a move that seemingly acknowledged Bellerive Oval’s unsuitability for AFL football. Although the Bellerive facility has improved greatly over the past five years, its lack of suitable lighting, the unco-operative attitude of its surrounding residents and its dire spectator parking situation have left it in a position where it is simply not equipped to cope with the demands a 20,000-plus AFL crowd would create. So how do you respond to criticisms that Hobart’s only viable AFL venue is not fit to host AFL football?

SW: Well, there’s no doubt you could play an AFL game at Bellerive tomorrow – I mean, as a one-off.

But, in the general scheme of things, there would have to be some minor changes take place at Bellerive Oval to bring it up to scratch for AFL football. As far the facility itself goes, it’s high quality, high-class and you could clearly play AFL footy there. It would be a facility that’s better than the one in Canberra, certainly better than the one they’ve got on the Gold Coast at the moment.

So, Bellerive Oval’s high quality and could cater for AFL footy – but they need to make some developments because it’s set up for cricket, not footy. Things like coaches’ boxes, media boxes on the wings and things like that – they’d have to make those changes.

But, the reality is, they’ve spent $20-$25 million on it and spent a similar amount at Aurora Stadium – so you wouldn’t think of playing AFL games at any other venue in the South than Bellerive. Issues like parking etc, I think they’re blown out of proportion – I mean, it’s not too much different to the ‘Gabba, which is also based in a residential area. Tasmanians are just used to driving in and getting a parking spot straight away and driving out, and that’s not really a reality in the other states…

MC: Still, it’s being compared directly to Aurora Stadium – and the parking there is much better…

SW: Of course, at Aurora Stadium it’s much better…

MC: And the location is much better come to think of it…

SW: Yeah, but in the end, there are some real benefits at Bellerive Oval. I mean, I don’t think we utilise the river enough, we don’t utilise public transport enough.

If you’re travelling to Aurora Stadium and travelling back out to Hobart after an AFL game, there are delays and hold-ups. But the great thing about Aurora Stadium is its close proximity to the city – so people can actually walk there – which is similar to the MCG in some respects.

Aurora Stadium’s got lots of things going for it, Bellerive Oval’s got lots of things going for it – but in the end, the government and the AFL have deemed that one’s a footy venue and one’s a cricket venue.

MC: So you think, with some minor changes, that Bellerive would definitely make the grade?

SW: Oh, absolutely. As I said, you could play an AFL game there tomorrow, and we’ve played VFL finals games there, so it’s fine as a one-off. But, if you want to play regular AFL footy there, you’d have to make some changes – but you could get away with a one-off.

MC: Getting back to North Hobart – we were talking about the Fitzroy games earlier… Do you think the State Government missed the boat by not developing North Hobart Oval when it had the chance?

SW: Did they miss the opportunity? Perhaps, but they had the opportunity to redevelop North Hobart well before that though – back in the early 80s they had the opportunity to spend a lot of money by buying the Blind and Deaf Institute wing.

So, the government and football administrations (the TFL) missed the boat back in the 80s, at least twenty years ago – it might have even been the late 70s. So, 20-30 years ago, Tasmania should have developed it, but you can’t turn the clock back – all we can worry about is moving forward.

But the great thing about Tasmania is that we’ve got two high quality facilities anyway.

MC: Moving on, St Kilda CEO Jim Watts has gone on the record as saying that St Kilda are unlikely to renew their York Park agreement beyond 2007 – and may not even honour the final year of its current agreement. If St Kilda were to pull out of Tasmania, how do you think it would impact upon the long-term viability of AFL in Tasmania?

SW: I don’t think it has any impact at all really.

For starters, they’ve got a contract, so if they pull out, it won’t be their decision – it will be the state government’s decision because they’re contracted. So, when the say they’re gonna pull out early, I don’t think it’s a realistic possibility.

And, there’s an agreement in place between the AFL, the state government and AFL Tasmania about the amount of games that are gonna be played in Tasmania between now and 2010. So, that agreement will take place – if it’s not St Kilda, it’s somebody else.

So, in the end, it doesn’t really matter.

MC: So if another AFL team expressed interest in playing roster matches in Tasmania, would AFL Tasmania try to lure them to Bellerive Oval?

SW: No, not to Bellerive. To Tasmania we would, but not to Bellerive.

MC: Oh ok, because I remember at the time of the St Kilda agreement…

SW: We expressed an opinion when St Kilda came in that we should have had a team playing games in the South and a team playing games in the North – so then we could create some rivalry, we could have them play one another….

Those were our views at the time, time goes on, and peoples’ views and opinions have to change given the policy decisions of other entities. So, in this case, the Tasmanian Government and the AFL have deemed that this is what’s going to happen, so we run with that.

But, with regards to the question of whether St Kilda going will impact on AFL in Tasmania… I think it’ll actually strengthen the whole process.

MC: Ok, now going back to the Devils - the Kangaroos recently signed an agreement in which they have effectively gone into partnership with the both the Tasmanian and North Ballarat VFL teams. Do you think this partnership represents the long-term future of the Tasmanian Devils – or do you think the long-term future of our VFL side lies elsewhere?

SW: I think the reality of football life is that if you’re playing in the VFL competition, you can’t win the premiership without AFL players.

It hasn’t been done – somebody might prove us wrong one day – but we (Matthew Armstrong and his coaching staff) believe that if you wanna win the premiership in the VFL, you need access to AFL players. So we had to find a way to get access to AFL players without compromising the Tasmanian nature of the Devils or the brand – without compromising the whole program basically.

So, we think we’ve come up with a solution – between ourselves, North Ballarat and the Kangaroos – where everybody wins. So, all it’s done is give us the chance to maybe win the premiership. But, everyone wants to win the premiership, we’re no guarantee to win the premiership – neither are North Ballarat or anyone else – but one thing we do think is that without access to AFL players, we won’t win.

So, at least we’ve got access to those players now, and we’ve got a good partnership – so we’ll see what happens.

MC: And how long is that agreement for?

SW: Three years, but both parties can walk away at the end of one year if they wish to.

MC: And the Devils won’t be the ones to walk away?

SW: Oh, I wouldn’t think so.

I mean, long term we think if there’s one team that’s playing AFL games in Tassie and is committed to the state of Tasmania, then that’s the team that we should be aligned with. So, if that’s not North Melbourne – perhaps it might be somebody else.

The issue from the Devils point of view is not to be totally infatuated with North Melbourne – but to get access to AFL players, and find ways to do that. The long-term future for the Devils is, if you wanna play in a competition that has AFL players, then you need to get access to them – so, somehow we’ve gotta work on that to make sure we’re successful. By ourselves, we don’t think we can win the premiership

MC: Ok, sticking with the ‘future’ theme – one could argue that the future of Tasmanian grassroots football lies in capitalising upon the North/South divide, rather than trying to close the gap. For example, AFL Tasmania could bring back the state premiership and have the NTFL and SFL premiers play off for the title of ‘Tasmanian Premier’ and create a bit of interest…

SW: Yeah, we could do things like that. I mean, that’s been discussed, but you’ve gotta gauge whether or not that’s what the competitions themselves want. The reality is, at the moment, they don’t want that – none of them have put their hand up and said that they want to do that. There’s been talk about it, but nobody’s knocking on our door wanting it to happen. Do we want to make it happen? Well, maybe in the future, but it’s not something that’s fundamental to the future – it might be a nice thing to do…

MC: So it’s not really on the agenda then?

SW: Well, it’s been discussed, but I wouldn’t say it’s high on our priority list. But, it would be a nice thing to happen.

The nature of Australian footy is such that the clubs are a separate legal entity, leagues are separate legal entities and we’re a separate legal entity – and the reality of the law is that one separate legal entity can’t tell another what to do.

So, AFL Tasmania, even though we’re the governing body, we can’t go in and say ‘you must do this’, because we haven’t got that legal authority or the moral authority. And, you know, New Norfolk won the SFL premiership last year and they weren’t beating down the door wanting to play Burnie.

I don’t know that the public is too concerned about it either – you said yourself that there’s not that many people going to the grand finals anymore, so I don’t know that we’re going to get too many people to support the concept anyway.

But, as I said, it’s been discussed, it’s more about whether the players want to do it now – and I think the reality is that the players don’t really care too much about it

MC: Continuing with the ‘North/South rivalry theme, does AFL Tasmania have any intention of embracing the Northern Bombers’ bid to enter the VFL – either now or into the future? If not, why?

SW: We have no intention in the short-term, we’ve gotta make one team work first – and I’ve already mentioned the thing about access to AFL players. If the Northern Bombers want to put a team in the VFL, what it’s going to do is detract from the Devils and make both teams weak. So, there’s no value in that.

AFL Tasmania’s view is ‘let’s make one team work first’, and see how it goes from there.

MC: So if the Devils won the premiership this year, next year etc – would that influence your decision?

SW: Maybe, maybe not.

We still think it’s about access to AFL players – and it’s the ‘Wrest Point Tasmanian Devils’ anyway, not the ‘Hobart Devils’ – and we don’t want that to be the case.

So, let’s make this team work first, get acknowledgement that it’s ‘Tasmania’s team’ and we’ll see what happens from there. In the end, we don’t see any real benefits in having two teams rather than one – particularly since you can’t get access to AFL players. So, if you talk about a Northern team that gets access to AFL players and is aligned, and a Southern team that is also aligned, then we’ll start to talk turkey. But I don’t think there’s a realistic possibility of that happening in the short-term.

MC: So you’re not fundamentally opposed to the idea?

SW: No, we’re not fundamentally opposed – but there’s a lot of water that would have to go under the bridge first.

MC: Looking forward – do you think there’s a Tasmanian AFL team in the foreseeable future?

SW: Depends how you define ‘foreseeable future’ really. I’d say the ‘foreseeable future’ is ‘the next 25 years’ – which is a fair way out – but yeah, there can be.

In the next 5 years? No, not a likelihood at all.

In the next 10 years? Probably remote.

So, at a point in the future, as it’s a national competition and Tasmania’s a state in the nation, maybe we could. But, you’ve gotta deal with what’s realistic and we’d probably have to tackle it in 5 year blocks…

Before 2010? Not a hope.

2010-2015? I doubt it

2015 and beyond? Perhaps.

It just depends on the health and wellbeing of the national competition – and the health and wellbeing of Tasmanian football, and the Tasmanian economy, and the Government’s stance on having an AFL team.

We believe that an AFL team would be a fantastic winter tourism strategy and economic development strategy. We think it would be fantastic for the state, but the AFL don’t think that at the moment – so we’ve just gotta deal with it.

As I said, the game’s been played for 130 years, and it’ll be played for another 130 years. So, at some point, we think there will be a national competition – and the shape of it will be different now than it was 10 years ago.

Does that involve Tassie?

Maybe, maybe not.

MC: And if you were actually going to do it, how would you go about it? Would you try to take the Devils up a grade for example?

SW: Well the best case scenario for a future AFL team would be for it to have a Tasmanian identity – rather than a relocated team, because a relocated team is exactly that – a relocated team.

The best thing would be to take up the Tasmanian Devils, because it’s already got a brand, and it’s already embraced by Tasmania.

But a relocated team? You wouldn’t say no.

So, in the end, they’re the only two ways it can happen – you can either have a relocated team or get a new licence, so it’d be one of those two options if it ever happened.

MC: Ok, wrapping things up… You’ve been at the helm in what is arguably the most turbulent period in Tasmanian football history. During the last six years, our premier football competition has gone under, our TAC Cup team has had its operations scaled back, and we’ve seen a rift emerge between the North and South concerning the venue at which AFL roster matches should be played. So, what has been your greatest regret as general manager of AFL Tasmania?

SW: I don’t think there’s a huge rift, and I don’t think there’s been any damage done. Basically, we’ve had a debate about where games were to be played, and that’s finished. It’s done and dusted, so I don’t think there’s any rift…

MC: Well it might be settled at the official levels, but there still seems to be a rift in the football community…

SW: I don’t think there is. As I’ve said, some people may disagree with the decision that’s been made, but I still don’t see it as a rift.

There’s still good crowds at Aurora Stadium, and we live in a state where basically 50% live at one end and 50% at the other – so, whatever decision you make in Tasmania, you’re never going to please everybody.

As a state, we’ve gotta become more sophisticated. The only people that talk about the North/South rift are Tasmanians – and we’ve gotta become a bit more sophisticated than that. We’ve got a cricket venue, we’ve got a footy venue, we’ve only got one decent racecar track… the list goes on. So we’ve gotta become more sophisticated in Tasmania if we want to invest in venues of high quality – because we’ve gotta invest in one place to ‘get more bang for your buck’.

But that’s the nature of the beast, and we don’t regret that.

We think it was actually quite healthy that we had the debate and got it out of the road, so that the debate was not lingering. We had it, and it got quite nasty – but in the end, we’ve had it, it’s done and dusted, and we’re moving on.

So that’s that issue and there’s no regrets about that.

MC: …and the Statewide League going under?

SW: That was disappointing – but at the end of the day, it was probably inevitable because people weren’t travelling, the public wasn’t supporting it and the clubs were all going broke.

It wasn’t sustainable, so we had to make some changes and get footy back on track – and footy is back on track. The ex-SWL clubs are now in a better financial position by a mile – so from a financial perspective, and from a community grassroots perspective, that’s been terrific. But, it’s regretful that the clubs were allowed to ‘spend money willy-nilly’ in the first 10 years of the Statewide League (it went 15 years).

So the Statewide League folding was regretful, but the VFL team has been a big plus for Tasmanian footy.

MC: …and the TAC Cup team?

SW: That’s been the best thing we’ve ever done – it’s been a fantastic initiative for Tasmanian football. You only have to look at the results – we’ve had a 300% increase in the number of players drafted since we’ve made the change, compared with when we were full-time in the TAC Cup. And, it was a costly exercise, so there’s nothing regretful about not having the Mariners full-time in the TAC Cup – it’s only positive.

We believe the current structure we have in place leaves the kids with a better chance of being drafted – I think that’s been proven. It’s also a greater contribution to community footy – eg: Justin Sherman played in a premiership team for Clarence and Grant Birchall played in the last two grand finals for Devonport. So, there’s nothing negative about the Mariners leaving the TAC Cup.

MC: But could it have been avoided?

SW: It was our initiative.

MC: So it wasn’t financially viable?

SW: No, it just wasn’t working. It was costing $400,000 a year just to get 1 or 2 players drafted, which is not a great return on investment.

It was the right move when they did it – so no criticism to the people who got it established – it was a great initiative for Tasmanian footy, but there’s no regrets where that’s concerned.

So, of the three things mentioned, it was probably only regretful that the SWL folded in the circumstances that it did. But, I think the horse had bolted by the time AFL Tasmania came into existence (December 1998). I think the people that ran the TFL had a little bit to answer for, but there’s no point worrying about it really. Our attitude is to get on with fixing the future.

The future of our game is the national competition, so what Tasmanians need to do is believe that we can be a part of the national competition. At the moment, Tasmanians don’t believe that – because we still get bogged down in where we play games of footy.

We’ve gotta think ‘Tasmania’, rather than thinking ‘North’ and ‘South’.

MC: Ok, now for the million-dollar question… Which facility is better for football, York Park or Bellerive Oval?

SW: York Park, by a mile.

and that's the bottom line!

hahaha

thanks for taking the time to read - post your comments below.

 

[The Majestic]

Pretty good interview, I agree with the parking thing, if there was a shuttle bus to the ground from the Domain like there is over christmas into town there would be able to combat this. But there has to be reasonable price, say parking + ticket + fare all in the one package.

Sad reality is Tasmania will never get the big name teams down here, but both grounds are ok but York Park has an edge over Bellerive, the room to build, and parking will prove the difference until another ground in the South is about to be revamped to be able to fit more people into the stadium.

Sadly there is no ground in the South for this to happen, North Hobart could have been that oval, if they got their hands on the Institute next door, but it's now a Hotel.

I also agree we need to get the South and North agreeing with each other and work together as a state, this North/South rivalry is good for the footy, you know the old North/South games are always great to watch.

But as for the betterment of Football in the State, and other things to do with Tassie we need to united.

 

[billybrownless16]

Top stuff Tigerfan, very interesting read

 

[Marklar_33]

Great interview

He still seems to be a bit South-oriented, but I dont disagree on the 7-4 split for the Devils. The crowds up here are disgusting

Laughed at one comment though

"Its not the Hobart Devils, its the Wrest Point Tassie Devils"

 

[TigerFan]

I just loved the way he said 'Wrest Point Tasmanian Devils'

his sponsor promotion was SEAMLESS

 

[The Majestic]

I just loved the way he said 'Wrest Point Tasmanian Devils'

his sponsor promotion was SEAMLESS

Wrest Point Hobart Tassie Devils.

 

[Kingpin]

I’m sure if you ask anybody in the state – even in they live at Burnie – if you ask them ‘who is the governing body for footy?’ they’ll know it’s AFL Tasmania, not ‘AFL Southern Tasmania’, AFL Tasmania.

Yes everybody the length and breadth of this state knows who AFL Tasmania is - and NOBODY has a kind word to say about them.

So, we’ve got every league and association – umpiring associations, junior leagues, senior leagues – every competition in the state is now directly affiliated with AFL Tasmania – and we’ve pretty much got a united football entity now.

The game’s been played for 130-plus years in Tasmania, and that’s never happened. We’ve got a few little relationship issues to deal with, but, generally, I think the greatest achievement has been the united voice of Tasmanian footy.

Correct! They are all united in bemoaning just what has happened to the state of Tasmanian football.
The AFL has played its part in reducing crowds, but not to the extent that AFL Tasmania would have you believe.

No, we actually say the game’s more popular than it’s ever been – and we say that on the basis that the game’s now national.

You cannot be serious?

76% of all Tasmanians (this is AFL research) watch football on television, we have the highest player participation rate of any state in the nation – we have nearly 30,000 people playing the game.

Interesting that no one I've ever spoken too has ever been asked by any poll or otherwise, whether they watch AFL on television - but that's another story alltogether.
30,000 people - most of them Auskick participants - how many playing REAL football Wade?

So, that’s why we say that the game’s more popular than it’s ever been – but people just don’t attend grassroots footy like they used to.

No, because it's a crap standard, with no publicity, no prestige and no meaning.
Not only that, but the forcing of clubs to wear foreign strips, change identities does not sit well with club's fans.
I know first hand about this one - that's one reason why I no longer attend football in this state.

Nobody goes to the level below AFL football now – they’ve done well in South Australia where they’ve held about 8,000-9,000 people as the average of a game in South Australia – but it used to be 30,000-40,000 people. That’s the reality of football life – it’s all about the national competition now.

SANFL averages about 3500-4000 per match, and it was NEVER 30000-40000 but anyway.....
And that give up "it's all about the national competition" line is an absolute cop-out.
It smacks of "we are too lazy to promote local football or do anything constructive to get it back on track.

AFL Tasmania has no view on AFL football games at this time.

I'll bet they do. They just won't air it publicly because of fear of another Launceston Whinge campaign, from Northern MP's and the Launceston Examiner.

Did they miss the opportunity? Perhaps, but they had the opportunity to redevelop North Hobart well before that though – back in the early 80s they had the opportunity to spend a lot of money by buying the Blind and Deaf Institute wing.

So, the government and football administrations (the TFL) missed the boat back in the 80s, at least twenty years ago – it might have even been the late 70s. So, 20-30 years ago, Tasmania should have developed it, but you can’t turn the clock back – all we can worry about is moving forward.

Blind, Deaf & Dumb Institute was closed in about 1984, and the TANFL were given exclusive bidding rights.
The TANFL didn't have the funds to buy it lock, stock and barrel and asked the Hobart City Council to buy the building and I think from memory lease it to the TANFL to turn it into offices, administration and the headquarters for Tasmanian football, and in turn, extend the width of the playing surface.
The Hobart City Council were broke as well at that time, and were not spending money on North Hobart Oval, and I *think* it was the late Alderman Doone Kennedy (who was also patron at the NHFC at the time) who put the kibosh on that.
*Although it may have been Ald. Brian Broadby - I can't remember off hand right now.
And the Institute was sold to a private company who turned it into a 4 or 5-star function centre and accomodation venue.

So, AFL Tasmania, even though we’re the governing body, we can’t go in and say ‘you must do this’, because we haven’t got that legal authority or the moral authority.

Bullsh-t they don't!!
It didn't stop AFL Tasmania from sending an AFL Tasmania employee - former Hobart Football Club president Russell Young - from being involved in the Devils, back to the Hobart Football Club (after not setting foot in the club for 8 years) with various sweeteners and other inducements to affect change at the Hobart Football Club, in order to coerce members and players at Hobart into going with AFL-alignment, thus turning their backs on 60 years of history, to appease Kingborough Football Club, Rodney Herweynan, Noel "Clepto" Morrison and put an end to "the Tiger issue".
What a crock of sh-t that is.

Very good interview TigerFan. Lucky it was you interviewing him and not me.
He wouldn't have made it out the door alive had I been present.

 

[TigerFan]

geez Kingpin, anybody would think that you don't like AFL Tasmania

Interesting that no one I've ever spoken too has ever been asked by any poll or otherwise, whether they watch AFL on television - but that's another story alltogether.

I assume they've studied TV ratings to work that one out. I remember seeing the top 20 rating shows in Tassie a couple of years ago, and the AFL Grand Final was number one, so it's obviously pretty popular.

30,000 people - most of them Auskick participants - how many playing REAL football Wade?

might have to do a bit of follow up on this one, and find out just how many Tasmanian kids are actually involved in Auskick...

No, because it's a crap standard, with no publicity, no prestige and no meaning.

so you think the standard of footy has dropped?

I used to hate being forced to sit through the old TFL games on the ABC in the mid 90s, and I can't say that I've noticed a remarkable drop in the standard of footy now that I'm watching it in person.

actually, there's a good point...

I know the Mockery still makes a half-decent fist of covering the SFL, so I won't go out on a limb and say that the media coverage as a whole has gone down the toilet... but do you think the lack of television coverage is a big factor in the demise of Tasmanian football?

Not only that, but the forcing of clubs to wear foreign strips, change identities does not sit well with club's fans.

I know first hand about this one - that's one reason why I no longer attend football in this state.

What happened with the Hobart FC was obviously very unfortunate, but is it really a widespread issue?

I mean, I see how a corporate makeover would have a detrimental effect on the Hobart FC, but how many clubs has this actually happened to?

And that give up "it's all about the national competition" line is an absolute cop-out.

It smacks of "we are too lazy to promote local football or do anything constructive to get it back on track."

can anything be done though?

I mean, I'm not really siding with AFL Tasmania on this one (Wade says that we shouldn't be taking sides anyway! ), but I get the impression that AFL Tasmania has identified the Devils as the future of football in Tasmania - not the SFL, NTFL etc

we might not like the slow death of local football in Tasmania, but getting a slice of the AFL pie might be the only way forward in the aftermath of the TFL

I'll bet they do. They just won't air it publicly because of fear of another Launceston Whinge campaign, from Northern MP's and the Launceston Examiner.

yeah, Wade was blatantly dodging the question there (which makes me proud for asking him the question he didn't want to answer ). still, there isn't really much to be gained by Scott Wade going on the record as saying that he wants AFL football in Hobart

no matter what's going on behind the scenes, AFL Tas has to toe the Government line on this one for the time being


anyway, Matthew Armstrong is next on the hit list (if he ever gets back to me). I emailed Hamish Ogilvie as well, but he's not game to talk without Armstrong ok-ing it first apparently

if I play my cards right, I might even have a Hall of Famer (with a penchant for saying exactly what he thinks ) on board

 

[Kingpin]

geez Kingpin, anybody would think that you don't like AFL Tasmania

I think that's a pretty accurate assumption.

so you think the standard of footy has dropped?

Yes. Since the middle 90's, moreso the late 80's.

I used to hate being forced to sit through the old TFL games on the ABC in the mid 90s, and I can't say that I've noticed a remarkable drop in the standard of footy now that I'm watching it in person.

You shouldda watched Hobart live every week from about 1994 onwards!! At least the TV had an on/off button
I'd still rather watch that than the current stuff though.

I know the Mockery still makes a half-decent fist of covering the SFL, so I won't go out on a limb and say that the media coverage as a whole has gone down the toilet... but do you think the lack of television coverage is a big factor in the demise of Tasmanian football?

As many mistakes as they do make, I'll give 'em full marks for at least giving it the media attention that they do.
Remembering the old SFL - pre-2001 - used to get one column in the paper much like the Old Scholars gets now - so it is a big improvement on what it was.
I think they need to get it back on the radio for starters, and for the longterm, on television.
If Tiwi Island Football can get on there, I can't see why the SFL Premier League, or NTFL can't.
Sponsors will never clamber aboard if they can't get their product on the TV or radio, that's a given.
I had it on very good authority from a mate that was involved with the ABC at the time that the Statewide League used to rate quite well on ABC on Saturday afternoons - as lopsided as some of the game could be at times.
It was really the beginning of the nd when local football disappeared from our screens in 2000, the loss in radio coverage after 69-years was another big hit to footy here.

What happened with the Hobart FC was obviously very unfortunate, but is it really a widespread issue?

All clubs that have had to change (with the exception of Cygnet) have experienced quite a deal of trouble stemming from the forced changes.
Hobart had 344 members in its final year as the Tigers, losing over 200 of those in the first year alone when no longer being the Tigers and being out of the TFL. There isn't an accurate membership figure published there now, I wonder why?
Glenorchy & New Norfolk both nearly went broke as a result of losing members, supporters and money as a result of the Storm and Hawks era.
North Hobart's already admitted publicly that the loss of jumper has cost their club a lot of members and supporters.

*People could say yes but the above three have regained their uniforms and their crowds still aren't that good - the reason for that? Who knows.
But after a long period away, people find other things to do with their time away from footy, and they don't go back.
I know if Hobart were to regain the Tiger emblem, their jumper etc as of next season, I probably still wouldn't go back.
There's been too much damage done up there as far as I'm concerned, I know a lot of other supporters that feel the same way.
Kermandie and Brighton (Mangalore) are another two who felt the pinch from making these sorts of changes at other stages.

I mean, I see how a corporate makeover would have a detrimental effect on the Hobart FC, but how many clubs has this actually happened to?

Hobart, North Hobart, Glenorchy, New Norfolk, Clarence, Kermandie, Lauderdale, Cygnet, Huonville Lions and Brighton are the clubs that have to make some sort of change to, or drop a part of their identity in the last 9 years.
Glenorchy, New Norfolk, Clarence, Kermandie and North Hobart (this year) have been allowed to return to their rightful traditions, but the rest haven't.

can anything be done though?

As much as I hate the Devils, they are a part of the footballing landscape here now.
I would like to see properly setup competitions set up below the Devils, but given good help by AFL Tasmania - not just cut adrift and left to sink or swim - and it being given proper publicity on TV and radio.
Imagine you having the AFL on one station, the Devils and SFL on another station, as well as being able to listen to local football, Devils and AFL programs on the radio as well.
That would generate more public interest, but it won't happen - and you and I both know it won't happen.

I mean, I'm not really siding with AFL Tasmania on this one (Wade says that we shouldn't be taking sides anyway! ), but I get the impression that AFL Tasmania has identified the Devils as the future of football in Tasmania - not the SFL, NTFL etc

Wadey can go suck his knob. I'm surprised he didn't pull out his famed "When I was at Hawthorn........." line during the interview.
He does it any other time - just ask any past player that played under him, or had any involvement at Hobart in the 80's.
And I think we all know that AFL Tasmania only see Devils in the future landscape of Tassie footy.
Not a landscape that I have any time for, and as a result, no more football for me here.
Interesting how Wade just glossed over the dramatic drop in crowds that you put to him.
His "oh its because of the national competition" standard copout response was typical.

we might not like the slow death of local football in Tasmania, but getting a slice of the AFL pie might be the only way forward in the aftermath of the TFL.

A slice of all the AFL money might be great - but what does it matter?
There won't be any clubs left for it to share in. All those followers of clubs that'll eventually be gone will either have a choice in following the Devils or watching AFL on TV.
I said this on this website last year, and we now know from this interview that, that is "off the record" their aim.
If they think I'll ever follow the Devils then they're rather sorely mistaken.

Watching this is like watching a longtime friend slowly die of cancer.

if I play my cards right, I might even have a Hall of Famer (with a penchant for saying exactly what he thinks ) on board

Sounds good. I speak regularly with a 211-game Hobart Tiger veteran who has nothing but hatred for how football is here now.

 

[Devilcat]

Kingpin, football is a leisure activity enjoyed by thousands of red blooded males every weekend. I play football myself in the SFL and I remember a few years ago we used to have bigger crowds. Football in Tasmania does not run on crowds though. I couldn't care whether i play in front of 5000 or 50 people, and I don't care what these people think my team should or should not be about. Football is about the pride in the jumper, not the administration. You can say the standard has slipped, etc, but in the end, theres 22 guys who run out each time the team takes the field, and those 22 guys play thier heart out. Who for? Not for the 5000 people that aren't there to watch us play, but for our mates.

 

[Kingpin]

Kingpin, football is a leisure activity enjoyed by thousands of red blooded males every weekend.

Yeah. And it used to be a very semi-professional activity once too. But those days are gone.

I play football myself in the SFL and I remember a few years ago we used to have bigger crowds.

Yes, do you remember the 2000 season at all?
We had some big crowds that year, the finals crowds were huge!!

Football in Tasmania does not run on crowds though. I couldn't care whether i play in front of 5000 or 50 people,

Crowds and members keep clubs afloat. Especially the non country or amatuer teams.

and I don't care what these people think my team should or should not be about.

Who do you play for?

Football is about the pride in the jumper, not the administration.

...until that jumper is sold out to align with an AFL club's jumper because clubs with no money, no members and no supporters can't afford sets of jumpers, so getting an alignment with AFL team makes it easier to get jumpers. I agree with what you say, pity others won't stick by the jumper.

You can say the standard has slipped, etc,

It has. But that's to be expected.

but in the end, theres 22 guys who run out each time the team takes the field, and those 22 guys play thier heart out.

Correct.

Who for? Not for the 5000 people that aren't there to watch us play, but for our mates.

Might as well. That's all there is left.

 

[TigerFan]

ok, I've made a decision to focus on the bigger picture.

the York Park/Bellerive debate is still going to form a big chunk of my assignment, but I'm going to cast a wider net and focus on the Devils, the collapse of the TFL, falling crowd numbers... everything.

so who should I interview?

I've already sat down with Scott Wade (go back a page if you haven't read that interview already), and I'll be sitting down with both the president of the STJFL (Tony Gibson) and a Tasmanian Football Hall of Famer (Graeme Hamley) in the next 24 hours.

basically, I'm trying to cover all angles in this story - I have the past (Graeme Hamley), the present (Scott Wade), and the future (Tony Gibson). in addition to those three, I want Matthew Armstrong, Guy Abel and at least one Devils player on board - and I might even consider interviewing a few fans for their opinions.

so, if you reckon you have something interesting to say, PM me, and we'll meet in a hotel room somewhere