Opinion Your 2025 expectations

[patto14]

we're contending so the expectation is a flag

just win one ffs

Just show up in one!!!

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[patto14]

between 2014 - 2018, he played (on the wing) every game he was fit. Cant remember what happened in 2019 when he only played 9 games (prob injured). Since then he has been given a new role as a small defender. on occasion hes been injured and Fox has taken his spot and held it for a short while.

From a 'money ball' perspective, his output has been big compared to his salary
Cunningham has been an excellent role player for the team for a long time (on and off the field).

If Cunningham is the best we have, we are in trouble. He is a 2nd or 3 string, injury replacement at best. Disposal is not even average. Lots of kids should be getting a game before Harry.

I know people will say he plays a role, but fact is, you can't be a lock down one trick pony anymore. He needs to be effective out of Defence by foot. Harry is not.

Harry best position is in 2s, developing the next wave of kids.

But hey, my thoughts only, you don't need to agree.



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[Bloods86]

If Cunningham is the best we have, we are in trouble. He is a 2nd or 3 string, injury replacement at best. Disposal is not even average. Lots of kids should be getting a game before Harry.

I know people will say he plays a role, but fact is, you can't be a lock down one trick pony anymore. He needs to be effective out of Defence by foot. Harry is not.

Harry best position is in 2s, developing the next wave of kids.

But hey, my thoughts only, you don't need to agree.



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Yeah cool, I definitely don't agree.

 

[Punts]

If Cunningham is the best we have, we are in trouble. He is a 2nd or 3 string, injury replacement at best. Disposal is not even average. Lots of kids should be getting a game before Harry.

I know people will say he plays a role, but fact is, you can't be a lock down one trick pony anymore. He needs to be effective out of Defence by foot. Harry is not.

Harry best position is in 2s, developing the next wave of kids.

But hey, my thoughts only, you don't need to agree.



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But you want Adams at HB who is slower and can’t kick let’s be honest.

 

[Tedeski]

My main expectation from the coaches & staff is to see a creation of list depth.
This can only happen if 4 or 5 of the players that represented us in one or both GFs are forced to play dominant footy in the reserves throughout the year, much like Francis had to do.
List integrity was lost at our club a few years ago. I remember Roos dropping Malceski & Richards during the year. It was so good for them & the team in the long run. Create a hunger & new edge. Reward the next level with regular senior footy for consistency. Find form in the reserves & not over a 5 week period in the seniors because you are one of the chosen ones.

List integrity is gold. There will always be disgruntled players.
Parker last year is proof.

 

[Callipygian]

My main expectation from the coaches & staff is to see a creation of list depth.
This can only happen if 4 or 5 of the players that represented us in one or both GFs are forced to play dominant footy in the reserves throughout the year, much like Francis had to do.
List integrity was lost at our club a few years ago. I remember Roos dropping Malceski & Richards during the year. It was so good for them & the team in the long run. Create a hunger & new edge. Reward the next level with regular senior footy for consistency. Find form in the reserves & not over a 5 week period in the seniors because you are one of the chosen ones.

List integrity is gold. There will always be disgruntled players.
Parker last year is proof.

We dropped Adams and Parker - why doesn't that count? Perhaps just because they are not the players you would have preferred to see dropped?

 

[Tedeski]

We dropped Adams and Parker - why doesn't that count? Perhaps just because they are not the players you would have preferred to see dropped?

Adams didn't play in either GF.
Parker has been part of 4 losing ones & contributed little in all of them, not to mention he is irrelevant to my thoughts as he is no longer on our list.
So that leads me to the 4 or 5 players needing to play dominant footy in the reserves before they are to play regular senior footy again.
Not sure what you are saying.

 

[caesar88]

Adams didn't play in either GF.
Parker has been part of 4 losing ones & contributed little in all of them, not to mention he is irrelevant to my thoughts as he is no longer on our list.
So that leads me to the 4 or 5 players needing to play dominant footy in the reserves before they are to play regular senior footy again.
Not sure what you are saying.

I don't disagree re your point on selection integrity, but you can't allege that Horse abandoned it and then not name names of who you think he should've dropped/who Cox should drop.

 

[Tedeski]

I don't disagree re your point on selection integrity, but you can't allege that Horse abandoned it and then not name names of who you think he should've dropped/who Cox should drop.

Fair enough.

These are names that need to be considered for removal from the position they failed at in the big games of footy against the best teams or that need to get to the reserves to find dominance asap.
My opinion though so don't get go all sooky everyone...................perhaps suggest your own solutions to the 2022 & 2024 GF debacles.

McInerney (can't defend) , Lloyd (can't defend), Florent (can't defend) , McCartin (can't defend): Positional change in seniors, perfected via reserves.
Rowbottom: Release the shackles....................let him play & let his opponents worry about him. He knows how to defend if the moment in a game requires it.
McLean, Amartey, Hayward : Dominate in the reserves.

Cunningham: Back up in reserves. I love him but Paton takes his role.
Rampe : A watch on his first 5 games, but an ROK like call needs to be made if he doesn't perform & others are knocking on the door. Perhaps a different role for him where he can play on a smaller defender only. Though he was questionable in that role at times.

 

[Bloods86]

Fair enough.

These are names that need to be considered for removal from the position they failed at in the big games of footy against the best teams or that need to get to the reserves to find dominance asap.
My opinion though so don't get go all sooky everyone...................perhaps suggest your own solutions to the 2022 & 2024 GF debacles.

McInerney (can't defend) , Lloyd (can't defend), Florent (can't defend) , McCartin (can't defend): Positional change in seniors, perfected via reserves.
Rowbottom: Release the shackles....................let him play & let his opponents worry about him. He knows how to defend if the moment in a game requires it.
McLean, Amartey, Hayward : Dominate in the reserves.

Cunningham: Back up in reserves. I love him but Paton takes his role.
Rampe : A watch on his first 5 games, but an ROK like call needs to be made if he doesn't perform & others are knocking on the door. Perhaps a different role for him where he can play on a smaller defender only. Though he was questionable in that role at times.

I agree we should go for a more combative, contested style to be better prepared for grand finals.

Some of the names you've suggested should be looked at potentially being out of the 23.

Some I'd question.

Fox should stay and beef up defence, but McInerney, Florent etc if you expect them to play wing or HB as attacking players, it's not fair to expect them to defend as well as the others. Jmac was underdone, and is our best winger after Gulden. Can always work on strength and tackling though. I think with a couple of mids coming in and Campbell imo to HF, we probably have to cut one of Florent or Lloyd though.

Tmac is also a victim of concussion interruption and problems further afield, but it is easier to blame defenders. Hopefully he has an uninterrupted season, because he can definitely defend.

Cunningham the biggest ??? call. Our best small defender, had a pretty good season, low bar but wasn't in the worst 2/3rds of players in the GF. Not sure he's replaced by a guy delisted by the Saints.

 

[caesar88]

Fair enough.

These are names that need to be considered for removal from the position they failed at in the big games of footy against the best teams or that need to get to the reserves to find dominance asap.
My opinion though so don't get go all sooky everyone...................perhaps suggest your own solutions to the 2022 & 2024 GF debacles.

McInerney (can't defend) , Lloyd (can't defend), Florent (can't defend) , McCartin (can't defend): Positional change in seniors, perfected via reserves.
Rowbottom: Release the shackles....................let him play & let his opponents worry about him. He knows how to defend if the moment in a game requires it.
McLean, Amartey, Hayward : Dominate in the reserves.

Cunningham: Back up in reserves. I love him but Paton takes his role.
Rampe : A watch on his first 5 games, but an ROK like call needs to be made if he doesn't perform & others are knocking on the door. Perhaps a different role for him where he can play on a smaller defender only. Though he was questionable in that role at times.

I respect your opinion, though I don't agree with it completely.

Re those flankers you mention, I don't disagree that they're questionable at best when it comes to defending. But I also think it's arguably not their role to defend if they are playing on the wing as traditional hard-running wingmen, or attacking half-back flankers. So while I don't really blame any of them individually, I think it's a valid question to ask how many of these types we can afford in the team at once.

Re McCartin, I think it's harsh to say he can't defend. As I said the other day, he's not without his flaws as a defender, but who is better than him at contesting 1v1s? Arguably Melican, arguably Rampe on a good day, which are becoming less frequent as you say. I personally don't think he is quite where I'd like him to be as a defender, but I still think he's probably the best we've got.

Re Rowbottom, you won't get any arguments from me re his role, but I think the grand final was a good example of what happens if Rowbottom plays the way you and I want him to, in this particular midfield mix. It seemed he kinda gave up on defending to be more of a ball-winner, and whilst he was good with ball in hand, it meant there was no one else defending in there. It is why I think Mills can make a difference to our midfield. He can do a lot of that defensive stuff to give us some flexibility and options to say, righto Rowy, go hunt the ball for us, etc. And vice versa.

McLean, Amartey and Hayward you'll get zero disagreement from me, though I think Hayward does his role well enough. I'm just not that enamoured with the role.

Cunningham is where I disagree most strongly with you. His record as a 1v1 small defender last year was borderline elite, certainly as good as we could hope for from anyone else on the list. We haven't even seen Paton in action for us this year yet, so with all due respect this feels like a case of Shiny New Toy syndrome in full effect.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Fair enough.

These are names that need to be considered for removal from the position they failed at in the big games of footy against the best teams or that need to get to the reserves to find dominance asap.
My opinion though so don't get go all sooky everyone...................perhaps suggest your own solutions to the 2022 & 2024 GF debacles.

McInerney (can't defend) , Lloyd (can't defend), Florent (can't defend) , McCartin (can't defend): Positional change in seniors, perfected via reserves.
Rowbottom: Release the shackles....................let him play & let his opponents worry about him. He knows how to defend if the moment in a game requires it.
McLean, Amartey, Hayward : Dominate in the reserves.

Cunningham: Back up in reserves. I love him but Paton takes his role.
Rampe : A watch on his first 5 games, but an ROK like call needs to be made if he doesn't perform & others are knocking on the door. Perhaps a different role for him where he can play on a smaller defender only. Though he was questionable in that role at times.

I find myself nodding to some (McLean, Armatey, maybe Rampe) - but I don't think dropping McI, Lloyd, Florent, McCartin and/or Hayward makes us better. It makes us worse.

Instead, I see the problem differently.

If all you're trying to do is defend, because you can't obtain first use of the ball - you're screwed. Any team would be.

In big games, we don't win the stoppage. The GF epitomised it. And slingshot footy doesn't win big games any more.

Improvement will come from winning more centre bounces, more stoppages - getting more first use.

So .... how do we get first use of the Sherrin? In my view - Sheldrick and Cleary are the two potential "difference makers" on the list. And note I use the word potential - as neither have yet MADE the difference. But they're both players who win the hard ball in the lower leagues & if that can translate to the AFL, we could become a better side in big games.

 

[Tedeski]

I respect your opinion, though I don't agree with it completely.

Re those flankers you mention, I don't disagree that they're questionable at best when it comes to defending. But I also think it's arguably not their role to defend if they are playing on the wing as traditional hard-running wingmen, or attacking half-back flankers. So while I don't really blame any of them individually, I think it's a valid question to ask how many of these types we can afford in the team at once.

Re McCartin, I think it's harsh to say he can't defend. As I said the other day, he's not without his flaws as a defender, but who is better than him at contesting 1v1s? Arguably Melican, arguably Rampe on a good day, which are becoming less frequent as you say. I personally don't think he is quite where I'd like him to be as a defender, but I still think he's probably the best we've got.

Re Rowbottom, you won't get any arguments from me re his role, but I think the grand final was a good example of what happens if Rowbottom plays the way you and I want him to, in this particular midfield mix. It seemed he kinda gave up on defending to be more of a ball-winner, and whilst he was good with ball in hand, it meant there was no one else defending in there. It is why I think Mills can make a difference to our midfield. He can do a lot of that defensive stuff to give us some flexibility and options to say, righto Rowy, go hunt the ball for us, etc. And vice versa.

McLean, Amartey and Hayward you'll get zero disagreement from me, though I think Hayward does his role well enough. I'm just not that enamoured with the role.

Cunningham is where I disagree most strongly with you. His record as a 1v1 small defender last year was borderline elite, certainly as good as we could hope for from anyone else on the list. We haven't even seen Paton in action for us this year yet, so with all due respect this feels like a case of Shiny New Toy syndrome in full effect.

Yes very good points.
I have great wraps on Paton. I rate him. I should have mentioned that. McCartin is a tricky one. My frustrations with him come from watching him punch when he can mark the ball & often keep the ball alive which in turn keeps the pressure on his team mates. It's the best form of defence. Just mark it. Perhaps I'm a harsh judge because I compare his role to Richards & Reg. I like Melican. I want to see how the new guys can defend & work as a unit. They need to learn each other's games so it's critical we get this right. I also think that Lloyd, Florent, Gulden, Campbell & McInerney are better wingmen then they are defenders.
Only need two wingmen though & we have too many small forwards/mids.

So if we are to see how Sheldrick, Corey Warner, Cleary & Dattoli (when fit) go in those roles we are see some of the above names battling for a senior spot.

Which was exactly my point in my original post wanting to see our list depth strengthened.
Make some of those "automatic" selections under Horse become a fight for spots rewarding some up & coming players who are doing the job.

 

[caesar88]

Yes very good points.
I have great wraps on Paton. I rate him. I should have mentioned that. McCartin is a tricky one. My frustrations with him come from watching him punch when he can mark the ball & often keep the ball alive which in turn keeps the pressure on his team mates. It's the best form of defence. Just mark it. Perhaps I'm a harsh judge because I compare his role to Richards & Reg. I like Melican. I want to see how the new guys can defend & work as a unit. They need to learn each other's games so it's critical we get this right. I also think that Lloyd, Florent, Gulden, Campbell & McInerney are better wingmen then they are defenders.
Only need two wingmen though & we have too many small forwards/mids.

So if we are to see how Sheldrick, Corey Warner, Cleary & Dattoli (when fit) go in those roles we are see some of the above names battling for a senior spot.

Which was exactly my point in my original post wanting to see our list depth strengthened.
Make some of those "automatic" selections under Horse become a fight for spots rewarding some up & coming players who are doing the job.

This is very fair.

 

[kickthething]

I think i need the definition of expectations

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Yes very good points.
I have great wraps on Paton. I rate him. I should have mentioned that. McCartin is a tricky one. My frustrations with him come from watching him punch when he can mark the ball & often keep the ball alive which in turn keeps the pressure on his team mates. It's the best form of defence. Just mark it. Perhaps I'm a harsh judge because I compare his role to Richards & Reg. I like Melican. I want to see how the new guys can defend & work as a unit. They need to learn each other's games so it's critical we get this right. I also think that Lloyd, Florent, Gulden, Campbell & McInerney are better wingmen then they are defenders.
Only need two wingmen though & we have too many small forwards/mids.

So if we are to see how Sheldrick, Corey Warner, Cleary & Dattoli (when fit) go in those roles we are see some of the above names battling for a senior spot.

Which was exactly my point in my original post wanting to see our list depth strengthened.
Make some of those "automatic" selections under Horse become a fight for spots rewarding some up & coming players who are doing the job.

I get a good feeling about Paton as well. Feels like a Mattner where he will just do his job and we will sometimes forget about him, but he will be terrific value.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

In terms of holding players accountable, I think the new coaching team needs to take a longer term approach than Horse (who had razor like focus on one week at a time).

Sometimes you can drop a player who was a top ten performer but didn’t do the team things he knew he should have. The guy who replaces him may not be as talented and may not even play as well overall, but he will bring 110% effort and that will rub off on the players around him. It will also mean that the talented player who had to have a spell in the reserves and re-earn his place will come back with the right attitude.

I think there were games where Chad and even Gulden could have earned a spell, even if it was communicated publicly as hamstring awareness or rested or whatnot. Grundy, Blakey and potentially others as well.

The other part of holding players accountable as making them earn their selection when coming back from injury. I really do think the selections of Mills and McInerney would have cut the enthusiasm from other players. And Logan in the final.

I’d always go with 110% intensity from an 80% quality player than 90% effort from a 100% quality player.

 

[Bloods86]

I get a good feeling about Paton as well. Feels like a Mattner where he will just do his job and we will sometimes forget about him, but he will be terrific value.

If he's as good as Mattner, I might have to change my picture.

 

[ashep]

Missing top 4 would be a disappointment.

We're bringing back the same side that played some of the most breathtaking footy we've seen in years and dominated the comp for 3 months.

Talks of a transition year are baffling to me. The window is still WIDE open.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Missing top 4 would be a disappointment.

We're bringing back the same side that played some of the most breathtaking footy we've seen in years and dominated the comp for 3 months.

Talks of a transition year are baffling to me. The window is still WIDE open.

We definitely have the pure footy talent, just not too certain about the mindset.

 

[Kiama Chris]

We definitely have the pure footy talent, just not too certain about the mindset.

Also in the second half of the season the opposition figured us out a lot better. Forced Gulden wider, blocked Warner's front exits, manhandled Grundy and so on.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Also in the second half of the season the opposition figured us out a lot better. Forced Gulden wider, blocked Warner's front exits, manhandled Grundy and so on.

Didn't help that when we were in position to do so instead of resting guys on the way home we burnt them to the ground, and in turn they looked as cooked as can be 3 weeks out, and then we couldn't. We literally earnt the right to rest guys and our coach refused to do it. Put it this way why was Grundy played nearly every week? You telling me we couldn't have won against say Essendon or North or whatever without him? It's the one thing Chris Scott does well for instance, win early go hell for leather for 13-15 rounds then earn the right to rest the keys.

Hopefully this is changed under Cox as it's no wonder we are playing half cooked halfway through finals.

 

[Nuggetz]

We definitely have the pure footy talent, just not too certain about the mindset.

Spot on.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Didn't help that when we were in position to do so instead of resting guys on the way home we burnt them to the ground, and in turn they looked as cooked as can be 3 weeks out, and then we couldn't. We literally earnt the right to rest guys and our coach refused to do it. Put it this way why was Grundy played nearly every week? You telling me we couldn't have won against say Essendon or North or whatever without him? It's the one thing Chris Scott does well for instance, win early go hell for leather for 13-15 rounds then earn the right to rest the keys.

Hopefully this is changed under Cox as it's no wonder we are playing half cooked halfway through finals.

Yep this shat me to the core. 4 games clear on top and blokes who were clearly banged up were still forced out there. Grundy was absolutely cooked, Blakey was copping a knock every week, I was calling for Jmac and paps to be rested when they were playing through their skins just before getting injured, attempting to get Gulden his 100% tog bs. We're actually lucky we didn't cop further injuries despite players playing banged up in finals. By that time you could just tell the boys were spent. Dug deep into the well to pull that GWS win where let's be honest we were poor for 3 qtrs, and if we didn't it would've been straight sets.

Even more annoying was that it was all pointing towards an obvious form dip, and instead of resting and going back to what was working all of a sudden we were trying to shoehorn Parker, Mills and Campbell to turn it around despite it being quite clear the dip in form was due to fatigue. Really was poor management, almost as if Horse was so scared of losing momentum that it blinded him. 2022 really was an exceptionally managed year for Chris Scott. The blueprint was literally right there.

 

[caesar88]

Thinking about individuals and what to expect from them, rather than the team as a whole:

- Mills, to be elite for us, but probably get underrated by fans & the media because his games will look different week to week.

- Melican, to have another career-best season, and potentially carry what may be a vulnerable back six.

- Warner, if played more at half forward, to have a 50-goal season and be a nightmare 1v1 match-up.

- Cleary, to bring some much-needed forward pressure inside 50, but probably cop it from some for not hitting the scoreboard enough.

- Florent, to play a lot of good games over the course of the season, but never really have a set position and always feel like he'll be on the fringes, when he's really not.

- Rowbottom, to continue his upwards trajectory and become a top 10 centre clearance player in the competition.

- McCartin, to leave us thinking, "What could've been..." with his form forward, only to be swung back not even halfway into the season.

- Rampe, to probably have some injury that will put him on the back foot and raise the retirement question (hope I'm wrong about this one, obviously.)

- Heeney, to be great once again, but probably not quite at the level of last year, which would hardly be a disgrace.

- Lloyd, to have an even better season than last year on the wing and kick double-digit goals for the season.

- One of Amartey, McLean or McDonald to be dropped at some point. Not sure who.

- Jordon, to have another good year, but get dropped at some point.

- Papley, to play like he has a point to prove as criticism as to whether he's overrated will spread in the media.

- Grundy, to play well but continue to look like a mortal athlete who needs help.

- Ladhams, to feature more prominantly than previous years to provide Grundy with said help.

- Will Green & Patrick Snell to have their debuts.