Preview Your Best 22 for 2018

[azza77]

I wouldn't say Dear gave a lot more. That mark & goal in the first quarter were good, but after that his impact was minimal. He finished with 7 disposals and 1 goal, which isn't a lot from 72% TOG.

JJ was completely useless, and gave us nothing whatsoever, so by definition Dear did give more - but it really wasn't a "lot" more.

Like others have touched on though, you don’t really give people like Dear much of an incentive to “offer more” if someone like JJ is continuing to spud it up on half a mil a year.

There’s no harm in making a change during the year. Who knows it may spark a gain reaction. Might spark JJs ballerina toes into action, and might also give Dear that hunger to continue working on how to “offer more”.

 

[Vader]

Like others have touched on though, you don’t really give people like Dear much of an incentive to “offer more” if someone like JJ is continuing to spud it up on half a mil a year.

There’s no harm in making a change during the year. Who knows it may spark a gain reaction. Might spark JJs ballerina toes into action, and might also give Dear that hunger to continue working on how to “offer more”.

JJ has the runs on the board, and that buys him a few weeks before he gets dropped. That said, I wouldn't be giving him more than 1-2 weeks if he keeps playing the way he did on Saturday afternoon. That was a really, really, bad performance.

The question is whether we're better off replacing JJ with another tall (i.e. Dear), or going with a smaller and more mobile forward line (i.e. CEY or Gallucci)? Dropping JJ and bringing in Dear are two separate decisions - linked, but separate.

 

[azza77]

JJ has the runs on the board, and that buys him a few weeks before he gets dropped. That said, I wouldn't be giving him more than 1-2 weeks if he keeps playing the way he did on Saturday afternoon. That was a really, really, bad performance.

The question is whether we're better off replacing JJ with another tall (i.e. Dear), or going with a smaller and more mobile forward line (i.e. CEY or Gallucci)? Dropping JJ and bringing in Dear are two separate decisions - linked, but separate.

Exactly, and it's that's going to be the case then we should probably work this out before we head into finals...

I'd be shitting myself to tears if we dropped JJ for Otten. But am finding it hard, I really like the prospect of Keath forward, but I would also like to see McGovern given the F50 to himself with Betts, and we add that extra runner, maybe someone like Gibson if he's not in the 22, to really push teams to the limit.

We can generate pressure around the ball and then people like Gibson/Knight/Lynch get on their bike and get out the back, with long kicking people like Seedsman/Atkins/Gibbs/Murphy/Gallucci/Tex etc etc to help get over the top. I don't really see any reason why Jenkins is key to this formula, which is my main query to those who defend him to the grave. It's more so a combination good ball use and game plan execution, than one player running to the right spot... This can still be achieved with the right cattle.

But right now, despite our successes, I believe/think we are still top heavy, and that extra runner may be beneficial to our style. It's just a matter of what we do with the ruck if we drop JJ for a runner. My vote would be to put Greenwood there to make up the numbers, but it is an issue we will face.

 

[Vader]

Exactly, and it's that's going to be the case then we should probably work this out before we head into finals...

I'd be shitting myself to tears if we dropped JJ for Otten. But am finding it hard, I really like the prospect of Keath forward, but I would also like to see McGovern given the F50 to himself with Betts, and we add that extra runner, maybe someone like Gibson if he's not in the 22, to really push teams to the limit.

We can generate pressure around the ball and then people like Gibson/Knight/Lynch get on their bike and get out the back, with long kicking people like Seedsman/Atkins/Gibbs/Murphy/Gallucci/Tex etc etc to help get over the top. I don't really see any reason why Jenkins is key to this formula, which is my main query to those who defend him to the grave. It's more so a combination good ball use and game plan execution, than one player running to the right spot... This can still be achieved with the right cattle.

But right now, despite our successes, I believe/think we are still top heavy, and that extra runner may be beneficial to our style. It's just a matter of what we do with the ruck if we drop JJ for a runner. My vote would be to put Greenwood there to make up the numbers, but it is an issue we will face.

JJ playing well is a 50-goal per year forward, who definitely offers something of significant value. JJ playing the way he did on Saturday is an absolute liability.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I'm annoyed by JJ's complete inability to provide defensive pressure in those games where the goals aren't flowing for him. His performances generally vary between good and being a complete liability. It's particularly frustrating because JJ is actually reasonably fast for his size and should offer a hell of a lot more defensive pressure than he does. He's a lazy flat track bully and I hope we can find a decent replacement for him because I'm sick of his bullshit.

 

[baldandbroke]

Was looking at the game stats from the weekend's JLT here:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/match-centre/PRE20180103/stats

Hampton had the most tackles? Didn't he provide that pressure last year when he played before injury?

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Jenkins wouldn’t even get close to kicking 100 goals in the sanfl because he doesn’t generate his own goals.

He can’t feed off of a quality system with quality players, so would break down. He’d be lucky to kick 40 goals in the rough and tough nature of the SANFL.

Look Jenkins has his weaknesses but this really is a bit much.
Yes, Jenkins does benefit from a few cheap ones out the back and he doesn’t always provide the physical presence we need but this idea that he never provides anything but goose goals is really ****ing stupid.

I get that everyone is still frustrated from the gf and he makes an easy target, but c’mon, the level bias against Josh is getting embarrassing even by bf standards.
If Jenkins forms drops during the season I’m happy for Pyke to send a message and drop him until he improves while giving Himmelberg/Dear a taste but if anyone expects them to play rd 1 and match Jenkins output then you’re dreaming.

 

[1970crow]

I agree

JJ is playing like a man with the security of a long term contract, opportunity for Pykey to drop a big name heading into round 1 and send a message performance is King

Not much of a message when Otto is named in his place and Dmac us named as our weapon leg off half back.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

The question is whether we're better off replacing JJ with another tall (i.e. Dear), or going with a smaller and more mobile forward line (i.e. CEY or Gallucci)? Dropping JJ and bringing in Dear are two separate decisions - linked, but separate.

I thought we played too tall quite often last year and it stood out like donkeys balls in the GF. I really hope the club considers playing a smaller mobile forward line. We can't keep living in hope that JJ will suddenly learn how to tackle and chase.

 

[Donkey Magoo]

The thing about Leroy is that the GF performance wasn't a one off. It was just the time that it mattered the most. The most frustrating thing about him is that he used to do it. You go back and watch his first appearances for the club he threw his body everywhere. Just to much MIA when it counts.

 

[azza77]

Look Jenkins has his weaknesses but this really is a bit much.
Yes, Jenkins does benefit from a few cheap ones out the back and he doesn’t always provide the physical presence we need but this idea that he never provides anything but goose goals is really ******* stupid.

I get that everyone is still frustrated from the gf and he makes an easy target, but c’mon, the level bias against Josh is getting embarrassing even by bf standards.
If Jenkins forms drops during the season I’m happy for Pyke to send a message and drop him until he improves while giving Himmelberg/Dear a taste but if anyone expects them to play rd 1 and match Jenkins output then you’re dreaming.

I've been frustrated by Jenkins and slamming him from the grand stand at games well before the GF! His piss weak efforts, inability to effect any contest and tendency to only prove useful when the rest of the team is firing, has been a longstanding gripe of mine.

His recent finals campaign has me seriously questioning his worth going into our next. Forget about his gimme goals and whatever it is that he does during the season, I'm more concerned about putting together a group of 22 players that are going to fight tooth and nail on GF. Jenkins, in my eyes, it not one of those players and I don't see anything changing at the age of 30. I'm not blindsided by his minor round goal tally, I want players that you can back in to get results when the going gets tough.

And in regards to the SANFL, if you've watched the way our SANFL side plays, and the way SANFL league games are played, and what Jenkisn thrives off of at AFL level, he's not kicking 50 goal seasons, regardless of him kicking 50 in the AFL. Again, he feeds off of the production of 17 other players on the field, he doesn't generate enough of his own scoring opportunities. He might kick a bag here or there due to this sheer size and athleticism at a lower level, but I still dont think his production level is high enough.

If he pulled his ****ing finger out, he's most certainly capable!

 

[Vader]

I thought we played too tall quite often last year and it stood out like donkeys balls in the GF. I really hope the club considers playing a smaller mobile forward line. We can't keep living in hope that JJ will suddenly learn how to tackle and chase.

We used the same structure pretty much all year. The problem is that we lost McGovern for the finals, and replaced a highly mobile contested marking beast with a glacially slow tall who was completely incapable of competing with Rance. The problem was compounded by Cameron getting injured, further limiting the mobility of our forward line. It was the lack of mobility, more than the height, which caused us so many headaches on GF day.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

We used the same structure pretty much all year. The problem is that we lost McGovern for the finals, and replaced a highly mobile contested marking beast with a glacially slow tall who was completely incapable of competing with Rance. The problem was compounded by Cameron getting injured, further limiting the mobility of our forward line. It was the lack of mobility, more than the height, which caused us so many headaches on GF day.

It's true that Otten never should have been selected. I had a really bad feeling about that. It wreaked of sentimentality. Just because a guy really deserves to play in a GF doesn't make it the smart move.

I had completely forgotten about Cameron's injury but losing his explosive speed and also not having Smith really hurt us.

 

[azza77]

The thing about Leroy is that the GF performance wasn't a one off. It was just the time that it mattered the most. The most frustrating thing about him is that he used to do it. You go back and watch his first appearances for the club he threw his body everywhere. Just to much MIA when it counts.

What happened?! This is what I've been saying, but when he first broke onto the scene I was so impressed by what he had to offer and what he was capable of doing.

But how long has it been since we've seen him play with that intent? How I wish to see him breaking out of a centre square contest and banging one from 70m like he did vs Essendon. The Jenkins of today would have never, ever kicked those 2 goals he kicked against Collingwood. He would have just gone to ground and lulled about helplessly.

People defending him and saying although he's a 200cm FF, he's not in the team to crash packs and take marks etc is crap. He used to do it all day long to start with! This is exactly what is so frustrating about him as a player now.

He's fallen into this state of complacency and needs a wake up call. There is a seriously good, contested marking, 200cm athletic beast hiding somewhere in there....

 

[ADL9798]

And in regards to the SANFL, if you've watched the way our SANFL side plays, and the way SANFL league games are played, and what Jenkisn thrives off of at AFL level, he's not kicking 50 goal seasons, regardless of him kicking 50 in the AFL. Again, he feeds off of the production of 17 other players on the field, he doesn't generate enough of his own scoring opportunities. He might kick a bag here or there due to this sheer size and athleticism at a lower level, but I still dont think his production level is high enough.

I can't stress enough how silly I think this opinion is.

Brett Eddy. Michael Wundke. Todd Grima. Daniel Schell. Couple of Ken Farmer medals between them. Jenkins is a significantly better footballer than any of them. It's not even close.

With his size and athleticism, and with the difference in quality of key defenders and the way defences are organized at SANFL level compared to AFL, forget attacking patterns or leading, he'd just be standing there bench pressing defenders or jumping over the top of them all day.

Again, I get that he has flaws. I get that we're all frustrated because we know he has the tools to be much better. But some of these comments are just ludicrous. At the rate his stocks are plummeting in here, in a month I'm expecting to hear that he's so shit he wouldn't get a game for Gaza.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Was looking at the game stats from the weekend's JLT here:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/match-centre/PRE20180103/stats

Hampton had the most tackles? Didn't he provide that pressure last year when he played before injury?

But apparently he lacked intensity lol...

 

[John Who]

The thing about Leroy is that the GF performance wasn't a one off. It was just the time that it mattered the most. The most frustrating thing about him is that he used to do it. You go back and watch his first appearances for the club he threw his body everywhere. Just to much MIA when it counts.

That highlights package is the reason why you have people still backing JJ to be on the side. I personally believe that the rib fracture last year did more than just cause physical pain, but probably took him awhile to regain his confidence in ability to perform his best in marking/running etc.
I missed seeing the JLT1 game, but we probably should give him a few more games to see if he can get back to his best. His highlights package that you've shown tells us, his best is still right up there with the best big forwards.

 

[Donkey Magoo]

That highlights package is the reason why you have people still backing JJ to be on the side. I personally believe that the rib fracture last year did more than just cause physical pain, but probably took him awhile to regain his confidence in ability to perform his best in marking/running etc.
I missed seeing the JLT1 game, but we probably should give him a few more games to see if he can get back to his best. His highlights package that you've shown tells us, his best is still right up there with the best big forwards.

The rot set in a long time before the rib injury though. Potential was never his issue. It's about how hard he competes when the chips are down. In a way he is the canary in the coal mine.
I think that he needs to be put on notice, if he's not performing gets dropped. He needs to be hungry.

 

[Redleg Crow]

What's the deal with rookies now? Is there a change re being able to pick Murphy? Or do we have a spot for an upgrade?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

What's the deal with rookies now? Is there a change re being able to pick Murphy? Or do we have a spot for an upgrade?

No need to upgrade anymore.

Can play at anytime.

 

[1970crow]

We used the same structure pretty much all year. The problem is that we lost McGovern for the finals, and replaced a highly mobile contested marking beast with a glacially slow tall who was completely incapable of competing with Rance. The problem was compounded by Cameron getting injured, further limiting the mobility of our forward line. It was the lack of mobility, more than the height, which caused us so many headaches on GF day.

Plus too tall down back, so we couldn't rotate any defenders either. Yes, it was our usual set up, but we weren't up against a usual forward line. The injured Talia should have been sitting in the grandstand.

 

[Redleg Crow]

No need to upgrade anymore.

Can play at anytime.

Excellent... so err what makes them rookies?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Excellent... so err what makes them rookies?

Different draft & lower salary.

 

[Redleg Crow]

Different draft & lower salary.

But are they under the cap?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

But are they under the cap?

Good question.

Not sure.

Vader usually has the answers to these types of questions.