List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Why the **** are we even discussing this shit? Like someone telling you that they wrote-off your car but they have grabbed you a sandwich.

your best work

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Worth considering that someone at the club has the Midas touch when it comes to yet to breakout players that we have targeted.

Caldwell, TDK, Xerri, Lohman, Bergman, Callaghan. All these guys would be fantastic acquisitions.

caldwell? fml I can't do it, he's the most unlikeable twat at the dopers

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Why can't we admit we stuffed up on Battle.

I for one welcome our new vikinglord.. if that's a stuff up then keep em coming

 

[Brian Speaking_]

Good post
But you & I both know the plan was to dangle him before a ball was even bounced last year and it backfired when he and his manager found out what was happening. That is the reason he isn't with us now.
What ever way you look at its bad list management losing a 25 year old that finished 3rd in your B&F and no one to replace him

I find it funny people have gone with he was whipped because the clown that is Brianspeaking said so. I guess it easy then admitting club got it wrong

Whipped is an understatement, from a Saints point of view, it is fact, hell, it was even in the Herald Sun today that his Mrs fell in love with Clarko's wife.....

In regards to him being shopped around, big deal, it's professional sports, he left for less money so he's obviously the winner in his mind, however infantile he may be.

 

[Brian Speaking_]

They have written out the entire conversation from the tradies podcast.

B grade journalism, this 'industry figures' bullshit is code for I'm writing this piece and this is my opinion. The Herald Sun article was full of it, a waste of 18 minutes of my life.

 

[austinnn]

It wasn't just a creche, it was the whole inclusive nature Hawthorn has put together at the club.
Battle had reservations before his last Saints contract, and we had been floundering trying to put a good culture in place. Hawks appealed to him and the Saints got caught out.
It says something that the Saints know they have ****ed up with Battle and had put in place a similar process for Saints players and family. Closing the gate after the horse has bolted? Certainly. However it looks like this administration under Bassett shallows its pride, admits its mistake and tries to make sure it won't happen again.

That and the first nations initiative is good, drafting quality players is good, chasing good quality for needs is good, having the coach being a father figure is good.
All this is good.....but if we lose NWM, it will all just be words. Chasing players, offering huge contracts to prize them out, only to lose one of the most promising and talented player to pull on a jumper for the club, would be incompetent, idiotic and unacceptable and we would be a laughing stock rabble.

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I'm divided about the 1st Nations stuff: I think if we show good faith and not just lip service over a sustained period, we could end up becoming a true destination club for that community, especially with an indigenous history that realistically only Essendon and maybe Richmond can surpass.

To that end, I really think we should push to get in on the Dreamtime gig, but maybe not in Melbourne, maybe a second Dreamtime blockbuster match in WA - where we have a decent following - against Freo, who also have a decent indigenous (historical and current) playing list of their own.

But obviously far more important is our club culture day to day and what we do for the 1st nations players at our club, and their support networks which tend to be interstate, and also our first nations supporters. We might not be able to get current fans to change clubs but maybe with the right attitude we can get 1st nations people new to the sport to go for our club rather than others.

But there is a danger with all this that it becomes tokenism or seen as cynical - and though you could cynically argue that it's just to get more supporters, one might also argue that our club has noted the lack of growth in the AFL to fully embrace first nations cultures, despite the name changes and fancy bespoke guernseys, and has decided to be a club that members of that community, regardless of geography, feel they can actually trust and connect with. (This may mean a bit of short term pain as we air any skeletons in our closet, which every club who've been around as long as we have must surely have.)

The other danger is that just as people tended to misread the BLM movement, some non-1st nations supporters might fear that we are not a club they are welcome at or that we've become too focused on identity politics or something similar, so it's vital to stress that nothing has changed, we're still St Kilda and everyone is welcome, always.

Finally, having been away from Australia for 22 years, I might be mistaken here but I feel like Moorabbin and the outer east suburbs of Melbourne in general aren't really rich areas of indigenous culture and although we might work hard to create an enriching space within the club, what happens when they are living their lives outside the club in the local community; how easily will an interstate kid like the next Nas or Lanceyboy feel at home in Bentleigh or the Bayside? Something to consider.

I am less positive about the Irish thing, I feel like that's much more a long shot and other clubs are way ahead of us in that area, and we're trying to be everything to everybody, which dilutes the intention and integrity somewhat.

 

[Mowman]

Whipped is an understatement, from a Saints point of view, it is fact, hell, it was even in the Herald Sun today that his Mrs fell in love with Clarko's wife.....

In regards to him being shopped around, big deal, it's professional sports, he left for less money so he's obviously the winner in his mind, however infantile he may be.

Still running with the 2 accounts lol which one is the burner

Saints or GWS on this one ?

 

[bergholt]

They could have saved all the words and just wrote "st kilda are so pathetic not even 17 million gets it done and a player who didnt want to leave rates joy and overall management more highly than cash so he accepted less money to leave the club because the other club did basic shit like provide match day baby sitting and not ****ing him around on the initial offer"

My read of the article is that we hadn't fully adjusted to how soft modern players are. Like this:

"Some of them are very concerned about signing on (in this) social media age we’re in — they don’t want to be ‘the man’."

What that's suggesting to me is that we were probably promoting the club as "come here and make history" and all the snowflake modern players were like "that sounds scary what if I fail".

I think the club were building a high performance environment but without enough cuddles. That means we lose out to coaches like Mitchell and McRae who do all the cuddles all the time, and who say "we'll just have fun, it's just a game at the end of the day".

Got to adjust to the modern attitude, agreed, but it's not surprising to me that it takes a few years. I don't see it as particularly pathetic, just that our people were from a different generation.

 

[Xxxx66]

We ****ed him around and were happy to dangle him to get compo back....then tried to reverse the damage already done.

We were like a bloke that tells his wife that we should have a break so he can go root around....then doesn't get any offers, tries to go back to the wife who's off partying and she's lost interest. Offering trips overseas and a new car but that horse had bolted.

Actually think this is pretty accurate.

 

[botts]

Can anyone put up said article?

 

[Sarcoidevo]

If Carlscum keep on their spoon trajectory this year .... I would be dropping my offer to TDK

Mate .... either stay at a club whose Premiership Window has been slammed shut or .... come to club on the rise that you supported for a little more than what Carlscum is offering

If Carlolton are offering 1 mill .... offer 1.2m .... no need to go 1.7m ... maybe offer the same amount?

Battle left for less apparently.... why not TDK?

Back ourselves in to be better than Carlscum

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Jack Silvagni is FA .... anyone?

Hasn't been too bad on his return

 

[Mowman]

Can anyone put up said article?

I can but don’t think it’s allowed anymore
StFly ?

 

[dudeintheswamp]

If Carlscum keep on their spoon trajectory this year .... I would be dropping my offer to TDK

Mate .... either stay at a club whose Premiership Window has been slammed shut or .... come to club on the rise that you supported for a little more than what Carlscum is offering

If Carlolton are offering 1 mill .... offer 1.2m .... no need to go 1.7m ... maybe offer the same amount?

Battle left for less apparently.... why not TDK?

Back ourselves in to be better than Carlscum

"As a child, Tom De Koning supported Carlton, following in his father Terry's footsteps, who was a "mad Carlton" fan.
Here's a more detailed look at Tom's connection to the Blues:
Family Tradition:
Tom's father, Terry, was a big Carlton supporter, and Tom followed his father on delivery runs, even visiting Sergio Silvagni's shop, where he would get drinks.
Boyhood Dream:
Tom's father's passion for Carlton clearly rubbed off on him, as he even wrote down his dream of becoming an AFL Brownlow Medallist for Carlton when he finished school.
Playing for Carlton:
Tom now plays for Carlton in the Australian Football League (AFL), fulfilling his childhood dream".

 

[bergholt]

Can anyone put up said article?

Summarised here:

Trade ‘reality check’ sparked big change at cashed-up Saints. Four stars now top their wishlist

Trade ‘reality check’ sparked big change at cashed-up Saints. Four stars now top their wishlist

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Sully111]

Jack Silvagni is FA .... anyone?

Hasn't been too bad on his return

Probably on my own here but I wouldn't hate it. I've never minded Jack as a player.

 

[Joffaboy]

The most recent article discussing battle is without a doubt the most embarrassing thing I've ever read on our club.

Its seriously pathetic.

Great article if you're hawthorn.

They could have saved all the words and just wrote "st kilda are so pathetic not even 17 million gets it done and a player who didnt want to leave rates joy and overall management more highly than cash so he accepted less money to leave the club because the other club did basic shit like provide match day baby sitting and not ****ing him around on the initial offer"

Its pathetic. We have to be better than that.

There can't be a genuine supporter around who thinks this is good list management or the signs of a club that's well managed. Its seriously alarming.

I think you see what you want to see. What a hot take on an overall positive article.

It starts with us stuffing up, acknowledging and taking ownership of that mistake, and putting things in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Did you not see the rooms after the game, past players, families of players, kids etc, all mingling together. Ross made sure the barriers came down and everyone was together. He was going from family group to family group. I have never seen a Saints dressing room like it.
Did you not read the embracing of First nations, or see our indigenous players exchange gifts every game. Do you think we retain our interstate indigenous players if not for such inclusive initiatives?

Did you not read the kids love RTB and the two top 10 draftees are just about to extend beyond the three years, and NAZ loves the place and is working out his contract on his terms, either short or long?

Did you not read that apart from all of the above we are likely to recruit three needs to fill holes?
The article is all about solutions ,but all you see is confirmation bias on how 'bad' we are.
People rightly critisise the club for losing Battle and not recruiting well. Solutions are rarely given. This tine the club has given solutions but somehow this is all glossed over.




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[Sarcoidevo]

"As a child, Tom De Koning supported Carlton, following in his father Terry's footsteps, who was a "mad Carlton" fan.
Here's a more detailed look at Tom's connection to the Blues:
Family Tradition:
Tom's father, Terry, was a big Carlton supporter, and Tom followed his father on delivery runs, even visiting Sergio Silvagni's shop, where he would get drinks.
Boyhood Dream:
Tom's father's passion for Carlton clearly rubbed off on him, as he even wrote down his dream of becoming an AFL Brownlow Medallist for Carlton when he finished school.
Playing for Carlton:
Tom now plays for Carlton in the Australian Football League (AFL), fulfilling his childhood dream".

Tom's father....Terry ...played for Footscray

Rumor or story was that Tom was enamoured by Roo and followed the Saints

Not sure of your source ....not that it matters anyway given he is seriously considering to jump ship

 

[jwikked]

The most recent article discussing battle is without a doubt the most embarrassing thing I've ever read on our club.

Its seriously pathetic.

Great article if you're hawthorn.

They could have saved all the words and just wrote "st kilda are so pathetic not even 17 million gets it done and a player who didnt want to leave rates joy and overall management more highly than cash so he accepted less money to leave the club because the other club did basic shit like provide match day baby sitting and not ****ing him around on the initial offer"

Its pathetic. We have to be better than that.

There can't be a genuine supporter around who thinks this is good list management or the signs of a club that's well managed. Its seriously alarming.

Don't really agree. It's owning up to past mistakes, and painting a way forward. I also think your take on this:

They could have saved all the words and just wrote "st kilda are so pathetic not even 17 million gets it done and a player who didnt want to leave rates joy and overall management more highly than cash so he accepted less money to leave the club because the other club did basic shit like provide match day baby sitting and not ****ing him around on the initial offer"

Is wrong. It's obviously a lot of money, but with that comes with incredible expectations. If you're the highest paid player in the AFL by hundreds of thousands of dollars, but don't finish top 5 in the best and fairest - fans will skewer you. If you don't kick 5 goals every week, the media will skewer you.

The issue isn't the money, but the pressure that comes with it. Which is what the article said about Josh Battle leaving, Hawthorn said they didn't expect him to be the hero.

Very few players in the AFL have what it takes to take on that role and handle it. I wonder if Buddy would have done it if it meant leaving Sydney to come to Hawthorn on that kind of massive deal. Easier to handle when you're living in Sydney, I would think.

But even Buddy wasn't immune. How often was his Swans contract brought up as being "not worth the money"?

 

[Joffaboy]

What I did find curious was this supposed fear by this current generation of not wanting to be the messiah and failing? What ever happened to wanting to challenge yourself and be the best.

Phillipou gets called weird and was questioned and called arrogant when he said he wanted to be the best player in the comp and told Essendon they had made a mistake not taking him.
Is someone like Cripps at Carlton not their messiah? His club is failing, does he look like running away to Brisbane?

It is a rubbish theory in my opinion. Players have always changed clubs for money. And the SM angle is BS. As Bill Burr says, don't look at it and everything is the same. If you do, turn off your insta comments, don't use X.
It is a totally false narrative used to pad out the article.


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[stavro#4]

I'm divided about the 1st Nations stuff: I think if we show good faith and not just lip service over a sustained period, we could end up becoming a true destination club for that community, especially with an indigenous history that realistically only Essendon and maybe Richmond can surpass.

To that end, I really think we should push to get in on the Dreamtime gig, but maybe not in Melbourne, maybe a second Dreamtime blockbuster match in WA - where we have a decent following - against Freo, who also have a decent indigenous (historical and current) playing list of their own.

But obviously far more important is our club culture day to day and what we do for the 1st nations players at our club, and their support networks which tend to be interstate, and also our first nations supporters. We might not be able to get current fans to change clubs but maybe with the right attitude we can get 1st nations people new to the sport to go for our club rather than others.

But there is a danger with all this that it becomes tokenism or seen as cynical - and though you could cynically argue that it's just to get more supporters, one might also argue that our club has noted the lack of growth in the AFL to fully embrace first nations cultures, despite the name changes and fancy bespoke guernseys, and has decided to be a club that members of that community, regardless of geography, feel they can actually trust and connect with. (This may mean a bit of short term pain as we air any skeletons in our closet, which every club who've been around as long as we have must surely have.)

The other danger is that just as people tended to misread the BLM movement, some non-1st nations supporters might fear that we are not a club they are welcome at or that we've become too focused on identity politics or something similar, so it's vital to stress that nothing has changed, we're still St Kilda and everyone is welcome, always.

Finally, having been away from Australia for 22 years, I might be mistaken here but I feel like Moorabbin and the outer east suburbs of Melbourne in general aren't really rich areas of indigenous culture and although we might work hard to create an enriching space within the club, what happens when they are living their lives outside the club in the local community; how easily will an interstate kid like the next Nas or Lanceyboy feel at home in Bentleigh or the Bayside? Something to consider.

I am less positive about the Irish thing, I feel like that's much more a long shot and other clubs are way ahead of us in that area, and we're trying to be everything to everybody, which dilutes the intention and integrity somewhat.

I think that part is more brought to life by giving indigenous players an environment they can be themselves. With support that understands their background and at times needs that differ from other listed players.

We do a pretty good job at the minute. Evidently not best in the league but I’m not sure who is and how you judge it.

I’d argue though that whilst we might provide the environment we probably need a few more of our indigenous boys to take the next steps as players to show what we are doing is working.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I for one welcome our new vikinglord.. if that's a stuff up then keep em coming

We don't even know if he can play footy yet.
Some people seriously love the draft more than the game.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Tom's father....Terry ...played for Footscray

Rumor or story was that Tom was enamoured by Roo and followed the Saints

Not sure of your source ....not that it matters anyway given he is seriously considering to jump ship

De Konings to watch on from Bali as boys do battle

The first instalment of Tom v Sam De Koning will come this weekend.

www.carltonfc.com.au

"Terry De Koning of course turned out for Footscray in 31 matches through 1980 and the Carlton back-to-back premiership seasons of 1981 and ’82 - 69 games shy of the 100-game quota required by the Western Bulldogs to take Sam and Tom under the father/son rule.

Not that it was of any concern to Terry, the Bulldogs’ 700th senior League footballer whose three seasons at ‘The Kennel’ came under the watch of the then coach Royce Hart. As he revealed in the lead-up to Tom’s first game for Carlton back in August 2018, his allegiances weren’t particularly torn as he himself supported the mighty Blues as a kid – a throwback to the late 1960s when he followed his father Martin on his delivery runs.

“Now this is a good story,” Terry explained at the time. “My father, who’s passed away sadly, was mad Carlton. He had a trucking company which delivered groceries to Sergio Silvagni’s shop.

“In the holidays I used to follow Dad around on his runs and I used to love going into Serge’s because he’d always say ‘Go and get yourself a can of drink young fella’ - and Dad used to say to me ‘Serge must have liked you because he was always tight’."

 

[BucketsandBanger]

All the posters whinging about losing Battle are right about one thing. We were happy to lose him for first round compensation (why we dangled him) and guess what, we got what we wanted. The article trying to make Hawthorn out to be geniuses by them predicting we would come in at the 11th hour with an increased contract to guarantee a first round selection, guess what, we got it. They clearly paid him enough to trigger it. If Higgins goal is touched on the line and we get two top ten midfielders it would be unanimous on here it was a fantastic process.

The article also confirms that we are trying to learn from losing him and put in place a more family friendly environment. Also is this a standard industry wide practice? Did all clubs have this except for us? Doubt it. Seems like Hawthorn are well out ahead in this space and we are learning from it. Good on them.

If Tauru even scratches the surface of his potential the whole thing is an enormous triumph. Have we had a culture of losing lots of players we didn’t want to recently? Battle is the only one, so it isn’t some ingrained problem that we need to solve.

 

[Joffaboy]

I think that part is more brought to life by giving indigenous players an environment they can be themselves. With support that understands their background and at times needs that differ from other listed players.

We do a pretty good job at the minute. Evidently not best in the league but I’m not sure who is and how you judge it.

I’d argue though that whilst we might provide the environment we probably need a few more of our indigenous boys to take the next steps as players to show what we are doing is working.

It also needs to be remembered that the 'indigenous' are not one homogeneous mass, they come from vastly different nations and culture. A Kimberley first nations player would have a totally different experience to a southern Victorian first nations player or a capital city urban player ( not using their nation name because I am ignorant of them all).

So while they are bonded in their aboriginality they are as different as any culture.
The challenge for a football club and one who wants to be the no.1 for indigenous inclusiveness is to recognise who is on the list, where they come from, and what individual needs they have.
I have absolutely no evidence apart from anecdotal but perhaps NAZ first contract and Lance Collards 3 years extension would not have happened without this initiative.

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