List Mgmt. 2024 List management Discussion

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This is solely for list management discussion, Trades discussion goes in the trade thread, and Draft prospect discussion goes in it's relevant thread.

Free Agency - Friday, October 4 and will run until Friday, October 11.
Trade Period - Monday, October 7 and will run until Wednesday, October 16.
National Draft - Round One - Wednesday, November 20 followed by the remaining rounds of the
National Draft - The rest - Thursday, November 21.
Rookie and Pre-Season Draft - Friday, November 22.
 
Last edited:
maanco said:
DEFENCE
Key/Tall Defenders

Callum Wilke (28)
Dougal Howard (28)
Josh Battle (24)
Zaine Cordy (27)
James Van Es (18)
Arie Schoenmaker (19)



General/Offensive Defenders
Jack Sinclair (29)
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (21)
Jimmy Webster (30)
Liam Stocker (24)
Riley Bonner
Ben Paton (24)
Tom Highmore (25)
Angus Hastie (19)
Angus McLennan (21)
Liam O'Connell (21)

Comments:
  • Lacking Quality Tall Key Defender, Wilke is great but is undersized.
  • Dougal Howard is serviceable and still has potential to be A grade.
  • NGA Key Defenders available to draft in:
    • Lennox Hofmann (190cm) NGA Potential Recruit - Projected draft range - 40 to 60
    • Adrian Cole (195cm) NGA Potential Recruit Projected draft range - 30 to 60
    • Windhager, Clark Hill can play as general defenders if required.
    • Keeler, Caminiti, Sharman could play as tall defenders if required.
  • With the depth of General Defenders it appears the uncontracted Ben Paton will be delisted.
MIDFIELD
Midfielders
Jack Macrae (30)
Jack Steele (28)
Mattaes Phillipou (19)
Zak Jones (29)
Brad Crouch (30) (will he retire in Febuary?)
Hunter Clark (25)
Marcus Windhager (21)
Paddy Dow (25)
Seb Ross (29)
Hugo Garcia 19

Wingers / Flankers
Mason Wood (31)
Liam Henry (23)
Brad Hill (31)
Darcy Wilson (19)
Daniel McKenzie (26)
Ryan Byrnes (23)


Comments:
  • In 2023 Preseason the Saints were lacking Young Developing Wingers, fast forward 12 months and we have 2 exceptional Wingers that both could move into midfield roles.
  • Mattaes at 190cm looks to be the Tall Bull of a Midfielder, with a bit of silk about him that we can build around.
  • Lacking explosive developing small goal kicking Midfielder.
  • On paper the aging players of Marshall, Steele, Macrae, Crouch, Jones, Wood and Hill could match most premiership quality midfields for talent.


RUCK
Rowan Marshall (28)
Tom Campbell (31)
Max Heath. (22)


Comments:
  • Ruck Depth - Was not a Priority in 2023 Draft however it is proving to be an important focus this offseason with Campbell and Likely the undersized pinch hitter Hayes delisted.
  • Pinch Hitters include Issac Keeler, Caminiti and Mitch Owens and the uncontracted Jack Hayes.

Forwards
Key Forwards
Max King (24)
Mitch Owens (21)
Jack Hayes (28)
Cooper Sharman (24)
Anthony Caminiti (20)
Tim Membrey (28)
Isaac Keeler (19)


Small Forward
Jack Higgins (25)
Dan Butler (27)
Lance Collard (19)

Best position unclear.
Olli Hotton
Matthew Allison


Forward Comments:
  • It would appear that Jack Hayes and Olli Hotton will be delisted.
    • Could there be a small possibility that the Saints are looking to re-rookie list them at the rookie draft.
    • I am certainly hoping Jack Hayes is extended at least as a depth player.
  • In 2024 Preseason I said, expect Membrey to be pushed out for the younger Key forwards, the call was one year early. But even still I did not predict a delisting.
  • Key Forwards Are stacked with promising developing players.
  • Expect in 2025 the forward line will be the weakest position again, with many players still seemingly in the development stage of their careers.
  • Small Forward depth and competition is lacking.
  • Hill, Wilson and Henry will look to add depth to the small forward/pressure role.
  • Wood to Provide Tall Forward depth.

Summary Comments:
  • Overall the List is unbalanced from an age and position distribution point of view but in a position to challenge in 2025.
  • There appears to be a focus on balance between performance in 2025 and the future.
  • Delistings of 8 players suggests moving towards the development stage.
    • Expect the club to use late picks to try and balance the list, with priority positions at the draft to be:
      • Mature key position defenders.
      • Developing Key Defenders.
      • Small Forwards
      • Mature Aged Ruck
      • Best available unless they are general defenders.
Click to expand...
Age breakdown.
Top Talent based on year turned 18.

2011 to 2012 - 4 Best 22 players
2013 and 2014 - 8 (4 A grade, 4 Role/Depth) Players
2015 to 2016 - 0 players.
2017 to 2018 - 6 players (5 x 1st Rd draft picks, 1 rookie listed, 2 A grade, 4 best 22)
2019 to 2020 - 4 players ( 1 A-grade, 1 role player, 2 yet to debut)
2021 - 5 players
2022 - 3 players
2023 - 5 players
2024 - 8 players. ( Tbc)
Premiership window:
2025 to 2027 before the retirement of Steele, Marshall, Macrae, Hill, Wood, Sinclair.

2028 - 2029: Change to club leadership
Heavily reliant on leadership, from the next core of Phillipou, King, Higgins, Naz, Owens, Windy, Wilson and Henry of whom will have an average age of 26.

Is 24 too young for Phillipou to be captain?
 
Last edited:

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maanco said:
Age breakdown.
Top Talent based on year turned 18.

2011 to 2012 - 4 Best 22 players
2013 and 2014 - 8 (4 A grade, 4 Role/Depth) Players
2015 to 2016 - 0 players.
2017 to 2018 - 6 players (5 x 1st Rd draft picks, 1 rookie listed, 2 A grade, 4 best 22)
2019 to 2020 - 4 players ( 1 A-grade, 1 role player, 2 yet to debut)
2021 - 5 players
2022 - 3 players
2023 - 5 players
2024 - 8 players. ( Tbc)
Premiership window:
2025 to 2027 before the retirement of Steele, Marshall, Macrae, Hill, Wood, Sinclair.

2028 - 2029: Change to club leadership
Heavily reliant on leadership, from the next core of Phillipou, King, Higgins, Naz, Owens, Windy, Wilson and Henry of whom will have an average age of 26.

Is 24 too young for Phillipou to be captain?
Click to expand...

2028 Best 22 (under 25 in 2024)

Hoffman, Cole, Schoenmaker
Naz(VC), Keller, Pick 8
Henry, Phillipou (C), Wilson
Owens, King, Sharman
Collard, Caminitti, Higgins

Heath, Pick 7, 2025 F1

Clark, Garcia, Windhager, pick 32, 2026 F1

Emergencies
2027 F1, 2026 F2, 2027 F2, 2025 F2

NOTE: Tasi enters the comp in 2028 and is set to be given 8 first round picks in 2028 and clubs will be given Free agency Compo picks for Players lost.
 
Last edited:
craffles said:
Pardon me for intruding, but you are welcome to buy an essendon membership and rage at Gresham with me.
Click to expand...
craffles
thanks from all of us for taking Gresham, you can have him
 
So here's the state of our list after the first round of the draft

Best 23

B: Webster, Howard, Schoenmaker
HB: Nas, Wilkie, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Wood
HF: Higgins, Sharman, Owens
F: Butler, King, Caminiti

Foll: Marshall, Phillipou, Mecrea
Int: Wilson, Windhager, Henry, Stocker, Clark

The Rest

B: McLennan, Cordy, Hastie
HB: O'Connell, Tauru, Travaglia
C: Byrnes, Carroll, Jones
HF: Hall, *, *
F: Collard, Keeler, ***

Foll: Heath, Dow, Garcia


Funny that we're almost certainly picking up two more defenders. In Carroll, Jones, Dow and Hall we have plenty of C-grade midfield depth so I don't know if there's any need to take a kid in the later rounds of the draft who doesn't have a particularly high ceiling. Elite mid talent is what we needed. Our list is looking very unbalanced though. Will probably grab a backup ruck and a half forward or two.
 
maanco said:
DEFENCE
Key/Tall Defenders

Callum Wilke (28)
Dougal Howard (28)
Josh Battle (24)
Zaine Cordy (27)
James Van Es (18)
Arie Schoenmaker (19)



General/Offensive Defenders
Jack Sinclair (29)
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (21)
Jimmy Webster (30)
Liam Stocker (24)
Riley Bonner
Ben Paton (24)
Tom Highmore (25)
Angus Hastie (19)
Angus McLennan (21)
Liam O'Connell (21)

Comments:
  • Lacking Quality Tall Key Defender, Wilke is great but is undersized.
  • Dougal Howard is serviceable and still has potential to be A grade.
  • NGA Key Defenders available to draft in:
    • Lennox Hofmann (190cm) NGA Potential Recruit - Projected draft range - 40 to 60
    • Adrian Cole (195cm) NGA Potential Recruit Projected draft range - 30 to 60
    • Windhager, Clark Hill can play as general defenders if required.
    • Keeler, Caminiti, Sharman could play as tall defenders if required.
  • With the depth of General Defenders it appears the uncontracted Ben Paton will be delisted.
MIDFIELD
Midfielders
Jack Macrae (30)
Jack Steele (28)
Mattaes Phillipou (19)
Zak Jones (29)
Brad Crouch (30) (will he retire in Febuary?)
Hunter Clark (25)
Marcus Windhager (21)
Paddy Dow (25)
Seb Ross (29)
Hugo Garcia 19

Wingers / Flankers
Mason Wood (31)
Liam Henry (23)
Brad Hill (31)
Darcy Wilson (19)
Daniel McKenzie (26)
Ryan Byrnes (23)


Comments:
  • In 2023 Preseason the Saints were lacking Young Developing Wingers, fast forward 12 months and we have 2 exceptional Wingers that both could move into midfield roles.
  • Mattaes at 190cm looks to be the Tall Bull of a Midfielder, with a bit of silk about him that we can build around.
  • Lacking explosive developing small goal kicking Midfielder.
  • On paper the aging players of Marshall, Steele, Macrae, Crouch, Jones, Wood and Hill could match most premiership quality midfields for talent.


RUCK
Rowan Marshall (28)
Tom Campbell (31)
Max Heath. (22)


Comments:
  • Ruck Depth - Was not a Priority in 2023 Draft however it is proving to be an important focus this offseason with Campbell and Likely the undersized pinch hitter Hayes delisted.
  • Pinch Hitters include Issac Keeler, Caminiti and Mitch Owens and the uncontracted Jack Hayes.

Forwards
Key Forwards
Max King (24)
Mitch Owens (21)
Jack Hayes (28)
Cooper Sharman (24)
Anthony Caminiti (20)
Tim Membrey (28)
Isaac Keeler (19)


Small Forward
Jack Higgins (25)
Dan Butler (27)
Lance Collard (19)

Best position unclear.
Olli Hotton
Matthew Allison


Forward Comments:
  • It would appear that Jack Hayes and Olli Hotton will be delisted.
    • Could there be a small possibility that the Saints are looking to re-rookie list them at the rookie draft.
    • I am certainly hoping Jack Hayes is extended at least as a depth player.
  • In 2024 Preseason I said, expect Membrey to be pushed out for the younger Key forwards, the call was one year early. But even still I did not predict a delisting.
  • Key Forwards Are stacked with promising developing players.
  • Expect in 2025 the forward line will be the weakest position again, with many players still seemingly in the development stage of their careers.
  • Small Forward depth and competition is lacking.
  • Hill, Wilson and Henry will look to add depth to the small forward/pressure role.
  • Wood to Provide Tall Forward depth.

Summary Comments:
  • Overall the List is unbalanced from an age and position distribution point of view but in a position to challenge in 2025.
  • There appears to be a focus on balance between performance in 2025 and the future.
  • Delistings of 8 players suggests moving towards the development stage.
    • Expect the club to use late picks to try and balance the list, with priority positions at the draft to be:
      • Mature key position defenders.
      • Developing Key Defenders.
      • Small Forwards
      • Mature Aged Ruck
      • Best available unless they are general defenders.
Click to expand...
Did the draft address all your concerns here?
 
Think there should be more than a few current players responding to this draft haul.

Of the seniors, Webster, Butler and Jones are under the pump. Stocker and Dow looking more like stop gaps (Cordy was already in this position) unless they start firing.

Clark? Produced numbers late in the season but seems to always be limited ToG. It's clear we've drafted to a game plan of speed and endurance. If he keeps winning inside ball he just needs to up his endurance.

Byrnes? Now stocked with high effort guys who can also run.

Caminiti? Addition of 2 new swing men, hammer is a bit taller and maybe pinch hitting in the ruck is his point of difference.

And all of last year's draftees with exception to Wilson will be looking over their shoulder.

All I care for is they all stay healthy to compete for spots, we have already lost players that fell behind due to injury and it's always sad.
 
Last edited:

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Kildonan said:
Player (age) height

DEFENCE



Key Defenders


Callum Wilke (28) 191

Dougal Howard (28) 199

Zaine Cordy (27) 195

Josh Battle (25) 193 Free Agent (Hawthorn FC)

James van Es (20) 196 Delisted

Alixzander Tauru (18) 194

James Barrat (17) 193



Medium Defenders


Jimmy Webster (31) 188

Riley Bonner (27) 190 Delisted

Ben Paton (25) 187 Delisted (Sydney Rookie)

Liam Stocker (24) 184

Liam O'Connell (21) 189

Angus McLennan (21) 188

Arie Schoenmaker (19) 194



Offensive Defenders / Outside Mid


Jack Sinclair (29) 181

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (21) 187

Angus Hastie (19) 190

Tobie Travaglia (18) 187




MIDFIELD



Inside Mids


Seb Ross (30) 187 Delisted

Jack Macrae (30) 192 Traded in

Brad Crouch (30) 186 Uncertain

Zak Jones (29) 182

Jack Steele (28) 187

Paddy Dow (25) 184

Marcus Windhager (20) 185

Mattaes Phillipou (20) 190

Hugo Garcia (19) 185

Hugh Boxshall (18) 188



Outside Mids/Forwards


Mason Wood (30) 192

Brad Hill (30) 182

Hunter Clark (25) 186

Liam Henry (23) 180

Ryan Byrnes (22) 181

Max Hall (22) 183 Midseason draftee

Jack Carroll (21) 187 Traded in

Olli Hotton (20) 181 Delisted

Darcy Wilson (19) 185

Patrick Said (18) 180




RUCK


Tom Campbell (31) 201 delisted free agent (Melbourne FC)

Rowan Marshall (28) 201

Max Heath (21) 204

Alex Dodson (18) 203




FORWARDS



Key Forwards


Jack Hayes (28) 194 Delisted

Max King (24) 202

Matthew Allison (22) 195 Delisted

Anthony Caminiti (20) 196

Isaac Keeler (20) 198




Medium Forwards


Tim Membrey (30) 188 delisted free agent (Collingwood)

Cooper Sharman (24) 193

Mitch Owens (21) 191




Small Forwards


Dan Butler (28) 182

Jack Higgins (25) 178

Lance Collard (19) 185



UNKNOWN


Eamonn Armstong (18) 191 (Cat B) Gaelic Footballer
Click to expand...
 
Here's out Out Of Contract (OOC) players, 19 in total at this stage (I can't confirm Jack Carroll, but I assume he's been given 1-2 years).

HOWARD and CORDY: Given the number of defenders we've taken, especially tall defenders, you'd think Dougal and Zaine would be nervous. (I'm assuming Eamonn Armstrong will play defence, given he's written up as a half back in the Irish Press). I would think Cordy will be first out, and Dougal might find himself getting 1 year deals every season until another club offers him more security.

CROUCH and JONES: Crouch seems a likely to be cut at the end of the year, unless his knee makes a miraculous recovery. While Zak was a little lucky to get another year, considering his extensive injury issues.

HEATH and KEELER: I love them both, and I really hope they make it. But drafting Dodson (Heath) and Tauru/Barrat (Keeler) just made them a little more disposable. We can't be carrying two project ruckmen, and 4-5 developing forwards. I'm really hoping both debut this year and start showing AFL qualities.

STOCKER, HALL and BYRNES: Make or break year for both of them I feel. Byrnes needs to show much more consistency. I think Stocker's actually been very good and I'm surprised he's only getting 1 year deals. Hall I can't really comment. Missed a few through injury and didn't really get midfield minutes at Sandy, which I found odd. 2025 will be interesting for him

HASTIE, SCHOENMAKER and McLENNAN: Pressure's on! We just brough in Tauru, Barrat, Travaglia, Armstrong and still have a developing O'Connell, who's getting big wraps. None of these guys are comfortable now. Probably Schoenmaker the most confortable of the lot, as his brilliant kicking elevates him from the pack.

CLARK: I rate Clark. His ability to stand up in tackles and still get a clean disposal away is rare. He was a pretty good HBF in his early years also, so has versatility. The hardest player to predict where he'll be this time next year.

O'CONNELL: I love reading that this guy is pushing Wilson in the running this pre-season, and is impressing track watchers. Was it Goddard saying he's been the most impressive halfway through last season? Raw, but showing plenty it seems.

WANGANEEN-MILERA, OWENS, WINDHAGER, GARCIA: Just give them what they want to stay. Can't afford to lose these guys, given they're the ones driving standards at the club. Seriously impressive guys that you build a successful club around. Buy the land around RSEA and build them mansions. Do what it takes to keep them at the club.

WEBSTER: Much like Membrey, you don't want to see it end, but the end is nigh. I'm hoping Jimmy isn't needed as much this coming season, as the likes of McLennan, Stocker, Hastie, or even Windhager push him out. But I'll always love him for his utterly gratuitous hit on Simpkin in a pre-season game. It made me feel like I was in the 90's again.

OUT: Crouch (retired), Cordy (delisted), Jones (retired), Webster (retired), Howard (traded)
IN: Free Agent (LDU?), F1 pick, F3 pick, Mid-Season pick (Crouch placed on LTI), 1 DFA or PSP.

#Primary List
Player		ContractAgeHeightGames
Prior		Goals
Prior		Brownlow
Prior
5Brad Crouch (r)202531yr185cm1615661
29Jimmy Webster202531yr188cm16540
3Zak Jones202530yr183cm1493614
20Dougal Howard202529yr199cm135150
21Zaine Cordy202528yr191cm140200
11Hunter Clark202526yr186cm98130
14Liam Stocker202525yr183cm6720
40Max Hall (r)202523yr183cm000
13Ryan Byrnes202523yr181cm63120
45Liam O'Connell (Cat B)202522yr189cm000
42Max Heath202522yr204cm000
7Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera202522yr187cm63612
2Marcus Windhager202521yr185cm5261
10Mitch Owens202521yr190cm53490
41Angus McLennan (r)202520yr188cm200
27Arie Schoenmaker202520yr194cm400
17Isaac Keeler202520yr198cm000
24Angus Hastie202519yr190cm510
34Hugo Garcia202519yr185cm910
 
ScrappyDo said:
It could also be blank space then question mark l suppose ?
I don't think stavro is gen Z so l doubt either is the case. He probably just forgot the last word as l sometimes do too. Otherwise its just ****ing lazy.
Click to expand...
I've always assumed he uses the voice texting app on his phone that i do sometimes when I'm driving. All those full stops in mid sentence and weird spelling choices are telltale signs.
 
Any elite midfielders on the horizon or are we still pretending we drafted well and should have beaten Carlton… lol bring on the “your bullying the new recruits” logic
 
SaintOfLondon said:
Any elite midfielders on the horizon or are we still pretending we drafted well and should have beaten Carlton… lol bring on the “your bullying the new recruits” logic
Click to expand...
The club clearly thinks Travaglia will be a future mid.
Boxshall has qualities that gives him every chance to make it as an AFL mid.
Macrae obviously has bolstered our midfield.
Jack Carrol is impressing at training and will be a watch this space.
Hugo Garcia training like an absolute animal and every chance to break into the midfield.
Pou into his 3rd pre season and looking good.
It’s not all doom and gloom.
 
hangdog said:
Here's out Out Of Contract (OOC) players, 19 in total at this stage (I can't confirm Jack Carroll, but I assume he's been given 1-2 years).

HOWARD and CORDY: Given the number of defenders we've taken, especially tall defenders, you'd think Dougal and Zaine would be nervous. (I'm assuming Eamonn Armstrong will play defence, given he's written up as a half back in the Irish Press). I would think Cordy will be first out, and Dougal might find himself getting 1 year deals every season until another club offers him more security.

CROUCH and JONES: Crouch seems a likely to be cut at the end of the year, unless his knee makes a miraculous recovery. While Zak was a little lucky to get another year, considering his extensive injury issues.

HEATH and KEELER: I love them both, and I really hope they make it. But drafting Dodson (Heath) and Tauru/Barrat (Keeler) just made them a little more disposable. We can't be carrying two project ruckmen, and 4-5 developing forwards. I'm really hoping both debut this year and start showing AFL qualities.

STOCKER, HALL and BYRNES: Make or break year for both of them I feel. Byrnes needs to show much more consistency. I think Stocker's actually been very good and I'm surprised he's only getting 1 year deals. Hall I can't really comment. Missed a few through injury and didn't really get midfield minutes at Sandy, which I found odd. 2025 will be interesting for him

HASTIE, SCHOENMAKER and McLENNAN: Pressure's on! We just brough in Tauru, Barrat, Travaglia, Armstrong and still have a developing O'Connell, who's getting big wraps. None of these guys are comfortable now. Probably Schoenmaker the most confortable of the lot, as his brilliant kicking elevates him from the pack.

CLARK: I rate Clark. His ability to stand up in tackles and still get a clean disposal away is rare. He was a pretty good HBF in his early years also, so has versatility. The hardest player to predict where he'll be this time next year.

O'CONNELL: I love reading that this guy is pushing Wilson in the running this pre-season, and is impressing track watchers. Was it Goddard saying he's been the most impressive halfway through last season? Raw, but showing plenty it seems.

WANGANEEN-MILERA, OWENS, WINDHAGER, GARCIA: Just give them what they want to stay. Can't afford to lose these guys, given they're the ones driving standards at the club. Seriously impressive guys that you build a successful club around. Buy the land around RSEA and build them mansions. Do what it takes to keep them at the club.

WEBSTER: Much like Membrey, you don't want to see it end, but the end is nigh. I'm hoping Jimmy isn't needed as much this coming season, as the likes of McLennan, Stocker, Hastie, or even Windhager push him out. But I'll always love him for his utterly gratuitous hit on Simpkin in a pre-season game. It made me feel like I was in the 90's again.

OUT: Crouch (retired), Cordy (delisted), Jones (retired), Webster (retired), Howard (traded)
IN: Free Agent (LDU?), F1 pick, F3 pick, Mid-Season pick (Crouch placed on LTI), 1 DFA or PSP.

#Primary List
Player		ContractAgeHeightGames
Prior		Goals
Prior		Brownlow
Prior
5Brad Crouch (r)202531yr185cm1615661
29Jimmy Webster202531yr188cm16540
3Zak Jones202530yr183cm1493614
20Dougal Howard202529yr199cm135150
21Zaine Cordy202528yr191cm140200
11Hunter Clark202526yr186cm98130
14Liam Stocker202525yr183cm6720
40Max Hall (r)202523yr183cm000
13Ryan Byrnes202523yr181cm63120
45Liam O'Connell (Cat B)202522yr189cm000
42Max Heath202522yr204cm000
7Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera202522yr187cm63612
2Marcus Windhager202521yr185cm5261
10Mitch Owens202521yr190cm53490
41Angus McLennan (r)202520yr188cm200
27Arie Schoenmaker202520yr194cm400
17Isaac Keeler202520yr198cm000
24Angus Hastie202519yr190cm510
34Hugo Garcia202519yr185cm910
Click to expand...
What you said, 100% Nas, Mitch, Hugo and Windy are the ones driving standards. We have a big gap between ROMA, Cal, Steele, Hilly and those young boys. We can't afford to lose them
 
I want all those guys to make it, but we iirc we have to draft at least 3 players, plus it has been said repeatedly that we are attacking FA this year, so someone's going to have to leave.
 

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