Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[KermitJagger]

Could be read as "exposed by a more attacking...."

Not really, our defence benefitted greatly from what happened upfield in our best teams. Across 2012-2015 we averaged 12 more inside 50s than we conceded and our forward half pressure was league leading the entire time. We had some great all time defenders, but they had it pretty damn good given the team they were in.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I think they're the one line that could be as good, problem is there'll never be another forward line as good as what we had through that era and the other problem is that we'll never have the flexibility of having guys like Hodge, Burgoyne, Roughy and co on the list - to your point. They spent time there because they could, they spent time forward because they could, they spent time in the middle because they could. Can only really see Will Day having the potential to do that for us.

I personally thought that they were both used in the backline to help preserve them throughout the season(s), and then brought into the middle for you biggest games.

Regardless of the reasons though, both Hodge and Burgoyne were the ultimate utility players - elite midfielders, elite backmen and elite forwards (even Hodge was).

To shift the thread back towards Mitchell - he'd obviously have seen the benefit of having two elite utilities first hand.

Only Day and possibly Impey could play multiple roles our current side IMO. So I wouldn't be surprised given all of our backline options

Frost, DGB, Sicily, Scrimshaw, Hardwick, CJ + Impey, Day, Bramble, Morrison, Hartigan, and Downie coming back from injury. Plenty of options that will allow Mitchell to use players in multiple roles.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

72 pts average against over the last eight games including four top 4 teams from 2021 is the same as hawks 2015 - their best season in that regard
And the 2015 defence was protected by a more mature midfield

Yes obviously the whole team was better, it was one of the greatest teams of all time after all. But they did it over the course of four seasons, and you're comparing it to an 8 game stretch. Let's revisit this in four years time.

 

[Pessimistic]

Yes obviously the whole team was better, it was one of the greatest teams of all time after all. But they did it over the course of four seasons, and you're comparing it to an 8 game stretch. Let's revisit this in four years time.

For sure, but it has to start somewhere. I’m saying the average 57 pts aginst so far in 2022 isn’t neccesarily a flash in the pan

 

[Pessimistic]

Could be read as "exposed by a more attacking...."

If we had less inside f50, and most of them were goal scores, that’s less chance of a turnover goal against too. There is that. If the ball comes back to a center bounce mainly, that’s closer to a 50-50 outcome

Key defence is nailing you inside f50s

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Might sound silly, but is there a tactic to deliberately lose the clearances?
Both rounds so far we have set up half a step behind our opposition at ruck contests. Win or lose the ruck, and they get the ball, but are set upon which forces a quick kick forward, or a scrimmage where the ball is fed out to our players waiting.

It would explain the lopsided stats too

 

[KermitJagger]

Might sound silly, but is there a tactic to deliberately lose the clearances?
Both rounds so far we have set up half a step behind our opposition at ruck contests. Win or lose the ruck, and they get the ball, but are set upon which forces a quick kick forward, or a scrimmage where the ball is fed out to our players waiting.

It would explain the lopsided stats too

I think this has been brought up before.

The tactic isn't to deliberately lose the clearance, but there is a tactic to set up so that if you do lose the clearance you're able to pressure the opposition midfield into low quality clearances and then rebound from there.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I think this has been brought up before.

The tactic isn't to deliberately lose the clearance, but there is a tactic to set up so that if you do lose the clearance you're able to pressure the opposition midfield into low quality clearances and then rebound from there.

Which is 100% something we have focussed on in the past.

 

[cryptor]

 

[KermitJagger]

Which is 100% something we have focussed on in the past.

That's definitely a throw back, just more noticeable this year because we were always at least average at clearance work and this year so far we're not even close to that.

 

[Dewnior]

Hopefully his moustache has come in by then.

It's not really a Mo, she had a buy 2 get 3 on the eyebrows

 

[Hodgey 15]

Some intriguing analysis.

What's Fuelling Hawthorn's Hot Start?

Make no mistake, these first two weeks of the season have already proven the Hawks are on the right track and are ready to have their development fast-tracked with the level of commitment across the board.

www.statsinsider.com.au

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Some intriguing analysis.

What's Fuelling Hawthorn's Hot Start?

Make no mistake, these first two weeks of the season have already proven the Hawks are on the right track and are ready to have their development fast-tracked with the level of commitment across the board.

www.statsinsider.com.au

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Excellent article. Regardless of what wins/losses come, the development added to our current output is going to set us up for future years.

 

[Argy]

So true - particularly given the infancy of the current crop. Hodge for example wasn't impacting games heavily until around his fourth year in the league, and that was as a midfielder.

True. I remember the sh*t other supporters gave us at the time about not taking Judd in the draft.

 

[cryptor]

Some intriguing analysis.

What's Fuelling Hawthorn's Hot Start?

Make no mistake, these first two weeks of the season have already proven the Hawks are on the right track and are ready to have their development fast-tracked with the level of commitment across the board.

www.statsinsider.com.au

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

From the article...



Most teams with those stat differentials end up with a 60+ win, and yet we gave them a 60+ loss. Amazing.

 

[Pessimistic]

Looks like our opponents need to hold marks inside 50 to beat us.

In order to create an open fwd line, you need to take significant pressure in the d50

The good bit is CJ may have had lower output at AO, but the other rebounders weren’t held.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Some intriguing analysis.

What's Fuelling Hawthorn's Hot Start?

Make no mistake, these first two weeks of the season have already proven the Hawks are on the right track and are ready to have their development fast-tracked with the level of commitment across the board.

www.statsinsider.com.au

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

What a great analysis, really thoughtful and fair bit of work out into it, especially the parts about ' tempering expectations' . Enjoyed that

 

[Pessimistic]

I’m tempering expectations, but still have expectations


Lost 2 quarters out of 8 so far, by a total of 8 points. This is different

 

[CHUBBSS]

I’m tempering expectations, but still have expectations


Lost 2 quarters out of 8 so far, by a total of 8 points. This is different

If we don’t give away any big runs to Carlton I’ll be impressed

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[Brishawk]

Moore. Wasn’t hard.

 

[cryptor]

Moore. Wasn’t hard.

Derm probably only considers key forwards and Cyril as "real forwards"

 

[Brishawk]

Derm probably only considers key forwards and Cyril as "real forwards"

Kosi had a career best year under Clarko last year. Gone backward under Mitchell

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Moore. Wasn’t hard.

One small HFF in six seasons is still an indictment on everyone involved. And there's no denying that playing forward was an arduous task.

Personally I'd include Kosi too, but that wasn't exactly his idea to play him forward.

 

[Brishawk]

One small HFF in six seasons is still an indictment on everyone involved. And there's no denying that playing forward was an arduous task.

Context is required here.
1. Gunston career best year under Clarko after 2015.
2. Kosi breakout year under Clarko in 2021. Still young.
3. Moore breakout season under Clarko in 2021. Still young.
4. Lewis picked from obscurity and showed file good attributes but was hampered by injury.
5. Three other forwards who have occupied the forward line post 2015 were roughy, wingard and Breust. Breust is obviously still playing well but hard to better his premiership year form as a small forward. Wingard has been up and down in line with injury. And roughy obviously towards the end of his career but largely got the job done prior to his last season.

So there have been forwards who got better post 2015 or were recruited after then and started to play senior footy or even play very good senior footy under Clarko. And soem that hand injuries and ones like tob that just didn’t make it but that probably isn’t a development issue. So it was a lazy statement to create a simple narrative that is easily undermined by easily observable facts.