List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Quicky]

I think you are kidding yourself and are in for a very big disappointment.

Have you ever been to a house auction with only one bidder?

What about a house auction with only one bidder and where the house is a bit run down?

What about a house auction with only one bidder, where the house is a bit run down and where the sellers are getting divorced?

None of the above result in strong sale prices - especially the third one, which is the position that we’re in with Grundy. It will be ugly.

We have near-zero leverage and unless more keen bidders emerge, we are going to cop a lousy deal on Grundy. If you accept that now, you’ll feel much less bitter about it when it happens.


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We can choose to hold on to Grundy. We don't have to trade him. He's contracted and we have the cap space. If a deal doesn't suit us he stays.

 

[Roverjg]

Great! I hope you’re right! But prepare yourself for the alternative too. One of us will look silly in a couple of months’ time. I hope it’s me.


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I agree with you... We want him gone as we have allocated his $$$ elsewhere.

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[ExcitementMachine]

Grundy for two first or **** off

 

[adammania9]

Because his team and game style allowed him to get off the chain. Hawks were excellent at team blocks and selfless play and dummy leads.

Strong compared to who? he was largely a 3rd tall for most of it.

He was a good player but extremely overrated on here and your post proves it. He made the Hawks good not the other way with 17 players getting carried by him.


Must be why he was a Coleman medallists or set marking records or goal assists etc. He had a purple patch couple seasons the rest were average.

You talk him up like he is Gary Ablett senior.

Junk post. Good players play to their and their team’s strengths - that’s what makes them have impacts on games, and become good players.

Gunston is strong relative to his position. He has always been good at bodying his man and he is a gifted contested mark taker

Who said he carried Hawthorn? There are 18 players on the field, this isn’t basketball. No one carries in good teams. He was an elite goal kicker in an elite team, a multiple club leading goal kicker in a side that won premierships. Hawthorn do not win the 2013 premiership without Jack Gunston.

Nobody compared him to Ablett Sr, champ.

Gun.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Did you watch the second half?


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Yeah..he got 2 goals from free kicks. Played an average but serviceable game overall. That's his limit.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Not even close. His form has gone backwards year on year since the pandemic and now has injuries to come back from. I expect him to be a pretty decent player next year however he's been 3 years away from elite. The Yeo example is a very good one.

Interesting. Where exactly did Grundy rank in the ruck ranks in 2019-2021?

 

[Mollythedolly]

But Grundy plays for Collingwood, and has a contract everyone suggest is inflated, so naturally he's worth much more!

I don’t think his contract is inflated.

 

[3rdMan]

^^I don't know. Seems you need to be as good as Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

23

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

to get $1M as a ruck these days.

 

[Mollythedolly]

There is only 1 reason we trade Grundy, we think his salary could be better used elsewhere on the list. Despite what you think, the contract puts the pies in a weak position. He can stay, on the same cash and there's nothing we can do about it. If he was on 450k there's no suggestion we would be trading him. He also is under no obligation to take a pay cut.

Really? We’ve got the contract this year and we’re headed for a PF next weekend. How does that equate to a team in a weak position?

 

[loki04]

Junk post. Good players play to their and their team’s strengths - that’s what makes them have impacts on games, and become good players.

Gunston is strong relative to his position. He has always been good at bodying his man and he is a gifted contested mark taker

Who said he carried Hawthorn? There are 18 players on the field, this isn’t basketball. No one carries in good teams. He was an elite goal kicker in an elite team, a multiple club leading goal kicker in a side that won premierships. Hawthorn do not win the 2013 premiership without Jack Gunston.

Nobody compared him to Ablett Sr, champ.

Gun.

You said it! "He made hawthorn good not hawthorn made him good".

He was not strong for a kpp which they tried to turn him into and then had to get their rucks to try rest forward to try fill the void and gelp roughy. He was great as a 3rd banana.

He was a good player, but he is overstated by some pie fans especially, who for some unknown reason rate him well above his station.

And rubbish Hawks would manufacture those goals in 13 with or without him.

You and some others talk him up like he's ablett snr.
Any time a fwd is mentioned "oooh he'd the next Gunston", like he was some user dominant fwd.
He had 4 very good seasons fwd the rest were mediocre.

 

[Forethought]

Hmmm, let’s see…..he has been sidelined for most of the season with a torn posterior cruciate ligament and then stress fractures in his ankle. And his role relies on him being able to repeatedly jump in the air and crash knees-first into other 100kg+ giants. And none of the potential buyers will have seen him play a single game since suffering those injuries. Yet you think they should pay top dollar and high draft picks to take over the remaining five years of his contract in the hope that he can get back to form of 3 years ago?

I fear you will end up extremely disappointed about the deal we end up striking.


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I agree Grundys form in the last 3 years hasn’t been to his elite standard but it’s far from the crazy ness being spoken that it’s not at an excitable standard to launch from.
Under CM not many players haven’t improved in their personal performance with the new game style. Grundy being and effective extra on baller with Rick capabilities surely would benefit most from the new game style.

 

[Quicky]

I agree with you... We want him gone as we have allocated his $$$ elsewhere.

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Who have we allocated it to? If McStay comes we don't need to do a thing because the increase in the cap accounts for his entire reported wage. If we get Frampton and Hill it will be a base wage situation. We still have Rougheads wage to play with which would cover a big chunk of Mitchell if he comes.

I think we hold the cards here. Those reported trades can get done with or without Grundy's movement. We only need to shift him in a scenario that favours us where we get something very good in return.

 

[brockbruiser]

Really? We’ve got the contract this year and we’re headed for a PF next weekend. How does that equate to a team in a weak position?

I think this is the point, we got to a PF without Grundy. Now imagine we had an extra Key Forward, Back and Small Forward on our list to choose from.

The question isn't whether Grundy is a quality footballer.... he is, no doubt. But his contract allows us to strengthen areas we are weak in.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I don’t think his contract is inflated.

There's always one.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Sam Edmund saying that Mitchell wants to get to Collingwood.

 

[stormskye]

Sam Edmund saying that Mitchell wants to get to Collingwood.

I hope so. Last night we held freo at bay during general play, centre clearances was still an issue that needs addressing. Their easy goals were from them.

 

[Roverjg]

Who have we allocated it to? If McStay comes we don't need to do a thing because the increase in the cap accounts for his entire reported wage. If we get Frampton and Hill it will be a base wage situation. We still have Rougheads wage to play with which would cover a big chunk of Mitchell if he comes.

I think we hold the cards here. Those reported trades can get done with or without Grundy's movement. We only need to shift him in a scenario that favours us where we get something very good in return.

Quicky... I believe as others have stated previously. The club has done a list needs analysis and determined our list imbalance needs fixing earlier rather than later. Club appears to share a lot of BF's view that Brodie's injury this year has shown that although Cameron/Cox do not much Grundy in many ways we can and have survived without Grundy and the approx $950k per year salary we are paying him for the next 5 years. That $$$ may not go to a new player this year but it gives us so much flexibility to improve our list profile.

 

[Roverjg]

I hope so. Last night we held freo at bay during general play, centre clearances was still an issue that needs addressing. Their easy goals were from them.

That has been the annoying part for a long time now. More so against Geelong last week. Every time we got a goal they would get the centre clearance and move it directly into our forward line and goal. Mitchell is not the long-term answer, but he very well may be the short-term answer whilst we improve our list imbalance

 

[No SPIN]

I agree Grundys form in the last 3 years hasn’t been to his elite standard but it’s far from the crazy ness being spoken that it’s not at an excitable standard to launch from.
Under CM not many players haven’t improved in their personal performance with the new game style. Grundy being and effective extra on baller with Rick capabilities surely would benefit most from the new game style.

Agree.
People writing off Grundy, and dismissing McCrae’s ability to bringing him back to his best is ridiculous.

Who have we allocated it to? If McStay comes we don't need to do a thing because the increase in the cap accounts for his entire reported wage. If we get Frampton and Hill it will be a base wage situation. We still have Rougheads wage to play with which would cover a big chunk of Mitchell if he comes.

I think we hold the cards here. Those reported trades can get done with or without Grundy's movement. We only need to shift him in a scenario that favours us where we get something very good in return.

AND Cap goes up by $1.5mill., we are under no pressure to dump Grundy.

 

[jonbe54]

Quicky... I believe as others have stated previously. The club has done a list needs analysis and determined our list imbalance needs fixing earlier rather than later. Club appears to share a lot of BF's view that Brodie's injury this year has shown that although Cameron/Cox do not much Grundy in many ways we can and have survived without Grundy and the approx $950k per year salary we are paying him for the next 5 years. That $$$ may not go to a new player this year but it gives us so much flexibility to improve our list profile.

I see your point Rover and agree to a point.

I think if this is how it plays out it sends a strong message - not only to the higher profile players who would understand that paying exorbitant contracts for less than stellar years is no longer on our agenda but also to the rank and file - that their contributions are appreciated and that we will look to build the list before coddling prima donnas and their money hungry managers.

Player contracts have been totally out of hand for a little while now and a stand needs to be made for the good of the game.

This is a TEAM sport - it's about lists management and not about gratifying player managers lust for money.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Agree.
People writing off Grundy, and dismissing McCrae’s ability to bringing him back to his best is ridiculous.

AND Cap goes up by $1.5mill., we are under no pressure to dump Grundy.

Aren't all contracts "indexed" if you like to soak up any increase to the cap? I could be wrong but I thought that was the case.

 

[magpies42]

Sam Edmund saying that Mitchell wants to get to Collingwood.

That would be awesome!

 

[Forethought]

Aren't all contracts "indexed" if you like to soak up any increase to the cap? I could be wrong but I thought that was the case.

No not all, about 12 teams use to but mainly only for their top 4-5 players and or depending when they entered their contracts based on how soon a new TPP was to be incoming. Most new deals atm would be factored in with the increase with what they are being offered.
AFL players only had to take a 3% drop in pay with COVID yet the TPP reduced by 10%. They are well covered fo the downside.

I’d like to hope with the Magpie army firing with massive crowds and likely prime time draw over the next couple of years that our destination club aspersions are seen.

I love the Cats model of taking less if your in contention.

6 players took pay cuts to fit in beams which gets forgotten pretty quickly. Steel the biggest at $100k as he was the driver of beams return.

Yes it didn’t work out but we have form of doing this so let’s hope it happens soon to keep our stars and attract others.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

No not all, about 12 teams use to but mainly only for their top 4-5 players and or depending when they entered their contracts based on how soon a new TPP was to be incoming. Most new deals atm would be factored in with the increase with what they are being offered.
AFL players only had to take a 3% drop in pay with COVID yet the TPP reduced by 10%. They are well covered fo the downside.

I’d like to hope with the Magpie army firing with massive crowds and likely prime time draw over the next couple of years that our destination club aspersions are seen.

I love the Cats model of taking less if your in contention.

6 players took pay cuts to fit in beams which gets forgotten pretty quickly. Steel the biggest at $100k as he was the driver of beams return.

Yes it didn’t work out but we have form of doing this so let’s hope it happens soon to keep our stars and attract others.

Ok. So why are we shovelling Grundy out the door if we can use the cap increase to pay for Mcstay etc?

 

[Juan Ide]

Ok. So why are we shovelling Grundy out the door if we can use the cap increase to pay for Mcstay etc?

We're not. He apparently asked us if he could explore his options.