Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[littlecreatures]

To be fair, Cornes is critical of everyone and everything.

Is he though, seems to speak very highly of JHF

 

[PJays]

Cornes loves having a dig at the Saints

RTB's pressers way more interesting than most for mine.

 

[Cairnsman]

We have now built a cohort of young players who will need to work together to become the core of our club. I would argue they're already most of the way there.

Probably at least 3-5 years before will know if they are capable of sustained top 4 finishes, that's how long it will take to reach the age profile required.

You can't short circuit that fact.

How many teams can you name that have won the flag with a bunch of kids...Baby Bombers maybe in 1993?

 

[PJays]

How many teams can you name that have won the flag with a bunch of kids...Baby Bombers maybe in 1993?

Hawks 08 and dogs 16

Although they were special groups of kids (as were the baby bombers)

Eg bontempelli, hunter, Daniel, Dunkley and a few others (21 and under) macrae was 22

And
Buddy, roughhead, birchall, rioli and a couple of others (21 and under). Lewis was 22

 

[Cairnsman]

Hawks 08 and dogs 16

Although they were special groups of kids (as were the baby bombers)

Eg bontemp0
o
And
Buddy, roughhead, birchall, rioli and a couple of others (21 and under). Lewis was 22

So without breaking those specific lists down, Take the Hawks out of that as they were a freak bunch of generational players coming together very quickly. So that's 2 teams in 30 years, do we think this current bunch of kids are going to pinch a flag this year or year?

Of coarse not!

We ain't anywhere near the Hawks of 2005-2008.

It's back to averages and statistics, which is waiting until the average age profile is around the 100 game mark, and within that group we need some A grade and Elite players to materialise.

 

[Gavinmitchell11]

I’ll support this club until I die or it merges/folds - I’m now indifferent to which one of those comes first.

 

[phantom13]

So without breaking those specific lists down, Take the Hawks out of that as they were a freak bunch of generational players coming together very quickly. So that's 2 teams in 30 years, do we think this current bunch of kids are going to pinch a flag this year or year?

Of coarse not!

We ain't anywhere near the Hawks of 2005-2008.

It's back to averages and statistics, which is waiting until the average age profile is around the 100 game mark, and within that group we need some A grade and Elite players to materialise.

“Ignore one of those teams for reasons that only I understand”.

I do enjoy pointless qualifications.

 

[pebblesofsand]

What a load of s**t. We have been poor at list management and drafting. We should have a bulk of guys one that middle of the age bracket. We have Snags, King, Henry and Battle in that 22 to 25 age bracket that are absolute best 22. Everyone else is a journey man or fringe type.

We traded lots of guys that should be in the side and threw away the compensation.

Absolute rubbish, none of our discards have embarrassed us.

Who do you prefer?

Acres or Wood
Gresham or Henry
Hind or Bonner
Long or Stocker
Bytel or Dow

 

[phantom13]

Absolute rubbish, none of our discards have embarrassed us.

Who do you prefer?

Acres or Wood
Gresham or Henry
Hind or Bonner
Long or Stocker
Bytel or Dow

… most of those are pretty line ball tbh

 

[Cairnsman]

“Ignore one of those teams for reasons that only I understand”.

I do enjoy pointless qualifications.

Not at all, I just assumed that most footy heads would know that any comparison with the 2008 Hawks has to be a pretty special list. Would you argue our current list is going to snatch a flag in the next year or two and then go onto a threepeat 5 years after that. The Hawks team had it's fair share of young players, but most of them were generational players and hall of famers.

Dat da reason.

So that's why I'd say the Baby Bombers and the Dogs are the only teams I can think of that pinched flags akin to Haley's Comet.

 

[PJays]

It's back to averages and statistics, which is waiting until the average age profile is around the 100 game mark, and within that group we need some A grade and Elite players to materialise.

The most optimistic scenario for the Saints is by end of next year- when King, NWM, Owens, Windhager, Henry will have 80-100 games and Phillipou, Wilson, Caminiti, Garcia could have 40-60. And a couple have become elite.

That's what we need to happen in 2025 or 2026.

Because in 2027 Wilkie and Marshall will be 31, Sinclair and Steele 32, and Membrey, Ross, Hill, Crouch, Wood 33.

The sweet spot could be 2025 or 2026. When hopefully that older group is still collectively contributing strongly.

 

[pebblesofsand]

… most of those are pretty line ball tbh

You may argue some are line ball but the discussion was about us supposedly giving away players who would currently walk into our 23.

The replacements I named are the equal if not better than the players that we discarded and none of them have had a higher trade cost.

 

[gringo2011]

You may argue some are line ball but the discussion was about us supposedly giving away players who would currently walk into our 23.

The replacements I named are the equal if not better than the players that we discarded and none of them have had a higher trade cost.

You have little credibility because no humiliation is enough for you. They could be the worst side ever assembled and you'd still be telling us how brilliant the club is.

 

[Cairnsman]

The most optimistic scenario for the Saints is by end of next year- when King, NWM, Owens, Windhager, Henry will have 80-100 games and Phillipou, Wilson, Caminiti, Garcia could have 40-60. And a couple have become elite.

That's what we need to happen in 2025 or 2026.

Because in 2027 Wilkie and Marshall will be 31, Sinclair and Steele 32, and Membrey, Ross, Hill, Crouch, Wood 33.

The sweet spot could be 2025 or 2026. When hopefully that older group is still collectively contributing strongly.

I think that age profile is optimistic, not saying it can't happen but so much would have to go right for us to pinch a flag in 2025, like it would probably be a greater victory than the Baby Bombers of 1993

 

[phantom13]

Not at all, I just assumed that most footy heads would know that any comparison with the 2008 Hawks has to be a pretty special list. Would you argue our current list is going to snatch a flag in the next year or two and then go onto a threepeat 5 years after that. The Hawks team had it's fair share of young players, but most of them were generational players and hall of famers.

Dat da reason.

So that's why I'd say the Baby Bombers and the Dogs are the only teams I can think of that pinched flags akin to Haley's Comet.

Well you could also argue that if our talent scouts had taken Trac and Bont and Naughton instead of the collection of shit trucks we did we could have a pretty special list too.

It’s not like the hawks fell ass backwards into that list, they crafted it. You gotta get a bit lucky but you also make some of your own luck.

 

[phantom13]

You may argue some are line ball but the discussion was about us supposedly giving away players who would currently walk into our 23.

The replacements I named are the equal if not better than the players that we discarded and none of them have had a higher trade cost.

 

[EddieMurphy]

You have little credibility because no humiliation is enough for you. They could be the worst side ever assembled and you'd still be telling us how brilliant the club is.

Toxic positivity is probably in the handbook of psychological disorders.

 

[gringo2011]

I think that age profile is optimistic, not saying it can't happen but so much would have to go right for us to pinch a flag in 2025, like it would probably be a greater victory than the Baby Bombers of 1993

Don't they say at round six the top 8 is pretty much set and only positions tend to change?

 

[pebblesofsand]

You have little credibility because no humiliation is enough for you. They could be the worst side ever assembled and you'd still be telling us how brilliant the club is.

No I think you're the one with a credibility issue.

Its straight forward - rather than having a crack at me why don't you name which of the 5 named discarded players would "walk" into our current best 23.

And before you say Acres ahead of Wood - don't forget to include the off field mentoring that Wood does. Not a strong suit of the "space cadet".

Long ahead of Stocker - you're having a lend

Hind ahead of Bonner - fmd!!!!

 

[Cairnsman]

You gotta get a bit lucky but you also make some of your own luck.

Absolutely.

What's not been helpful for for these past 2 seasons is our lack of luck with injuries because what it does is deny the whole footy department the ability to establish your best 25-27 players who you think are capable of contending because of the delays in due to access which ultimately delays your whole program.

 

[gringo2011]

Toxic positivity is probably in the handbook of psychological disorders.

Surprising that more theses haven't been written based on Saints fans. We are psychologically fascinating as a group. Stoic, resilient, stubborn, irrational, masochistic, sunk cost suckers. Probably a bit of contrarianism, tribal insanity, pain pr0n loving, outsider individualism etc.

 

[Cairnsman]

Don't they say at round six the top 8 is pretty much set and only positions tend to change?

Pretty much, same goes for the bottom 8.

Keep an eye out for the supporters who still think we can make finals...that's where your entertainment can come from when all else is lost.

 

[gringo2011]

No I think you're the one with a credibility issue.

Its straight forward - rather than having a crack at me why don't you name which of the 5 named discarded players would "walk" into our current best 23.

And before you say Acres ahead of Wood - don't forget to include the off field mentoring that Wood does. Not a strong suit of the "space cadet".

Long ahead of Stocker - you're having a lend

Hind ahead of Bonner - fmd!!!!

I've never been credible or care for it. You asking us to bow down to your collection of discards and journeymen as evidence of our brilliance is quite cute though Lewy. Imagine actually stockpiling talent one day. You'd need to find something else to rub your smugness over.

 

[True Blue Saint]

Am I the only one who gets a perverse sort of pleasure viewing the autopsy threads after a crap loss?

Pretty much just the way Saints have tuned my brain to think now. I'm the same with other teams I follow too.

 

[Saints43]

Pretty much, same goes for the bottom 8.

Keep an eye out for the supporters who still think we can make finals...that's where your entertainment can come from when all else is lost.

Mathematically possible.
I'm going to believe until it's not.
And, after that, I knew all along.
Next year's our year.