Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[Saint Shags]

My thoughts on bonner - he has his moments where his kicking is definitely a weapon. My problem is this team is full of those players that can play at half back and run around getting uncontested ball and getting the rebound going. His defensive side is the issue and you see it when he’s slowly jogging behind his opponent. He’s not intercepting or getting the contested possessions. He seems too tall for the small forwards and too small for the tall forwards.
It puts him in an awkward position. Maybe a move to half forward could be a benefit? Can be a good kick for goal or hit the forwards lace out.

When you look at our list it seems quite unbalanced.
We have:
Nas
Hill
Sinclair
Wilson
Wood
Bonner
Henry

They are quite similar in the role they play. Problem is we only have so many spots to put them. As a result we end up placing them in spots to the detriment of others. Sincs made his name on the half back flank but we haven't played him there all year. Because we've played Bonner there instead. And that's just for starters.

I don't mind the idea of playing Sincs in the midfield, but I would like to see him play in the position that he made his own as well.

 

[EddieMurphy]

Mathematically possible.
I'm going to believe until it's not.
And, after that, I knew all along.
Next year's our year.

Man if AFL had relegation we would absolutely dominate the VFL.... Wouldn't we?

 

[pebblesofsand]

I've never been credible or care for it. You asking us to bow down to your collection of discards and journeymen as evidence of our brilliance is quite cute though Lewy. Imagine actually stockpiling talent one day. You'd need to find something else to rub your smugness over.

Not being smug - just pointing out that getting rid Acres, Gresham, Long, Hind and Bytel hasn't cost us anything in terms of our all round team (or biting us on the bum) as was suggested.

We have equivalent or better replacements for all of them at zero net cost.

Gave Acres away for zilch (and saved $500k a year) got Wood for zilch on half the money.

End result

Mason Wood and Blake Acres AFL Stats Comparison

Mason Wood and Blake Acres AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

If people are looking for disastrous draft decisions to sh**can the club, they should look elsewhere.

 

[phantom13]

Absolutely.

What's not been helpful for for these past 2 seasons is our lack of luck with injuries because what it does is deny the whole footy department the ability to establish your best 25-27 players who you think are capable of contending because of the delays in due to access which ultimately delays your whole program.

Again though, not all luck, we had ALOT of reinjuries in rehab.

 

[phantom13]

Man if AFL had relegation we would absolutely dominate the VFL.... Wouldn't we?

 

[gringo2011]

Not being smug - just pointing out that getting rid Acres, Gresham, Long, Hind and Bytel hasn't cost us anything in terms of our all round team (or biting us on the bum) as was suggested.

We have equivalent or better replacements for all of them at zero net cost.

Gave Acres away for zilch (and saved $500k a year) got Wood for zilch on half the money.

End result

Mason Wood and Blake Acres AFL Stats Comparison

Mason Wood and Blake Acres AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

If people are looking for disastrous draft decisions to sh**can the club, they should look elsewhere.

Acres was ours, mismanaged and wasted then discarded. He was over paid to meet minimum cap and then jettisoned to make space. Imagine if you had 2 good wingmen and didn't have to pay $900k and all our draft picks for 2 years to get Hill.

Anyone that is still excusing any list management and drafting for that era is insane.

Wood was another Bonner that was meant to be a bit of depth. It just shows how bad drafting, trading and list management has actually been IMO.

 

[Cairnsman]

Again though, not all luck, we had ALOT of reinjuries in rehab.

It has been puzzling, I recall one of the knocks on Ross at Freo in his final few years was the accusations by fans that the injury rate, especially amoungst the young guys was due to the program and game style but it's just so hard to know if any of this cab be avoided with a game like AFL because it happens to a lot of clubs and injury rates of all types have been on the rise for a while now. It could just be the game.

 

[Cairnsman]

Mathematically possible.
I'm going to believe until it's not.
And, after that, I knew all along.
Next year's our year.

Us St Kilda fans should be mathematical geniuses with all the maths we've been doing for decades.

 

[saint66au]

Acres was ours, mismanaged and wasted then discarded. He was over paid to meet minimum cap and then jettisoned to make space. Imagine if you had 2 good wingmen and didn't have to pay $900k and all our draft picks for 2 years to get Hill.

Anyone that is still excusing any list management and drafting for that era is insane.

Wood was another Bonner that was meant to be a bit of depth. It just shows how bad drafting, trading and list management has actually been IMO.

Acres is a classic example of a player who became better because he is surrounded by elite talent. Was never gonna happen at the Saints

 

[gringo2011]

When you look at our list it seems quite unbalanced.
We have:
Nas
Hill
Sinclair
Wilson
Wood
Bonner
Henry

They are quite similar in the role they play. Problem is we only have so many spots to put them. As a result we end up placing them in spots to the detriment of others. Sincs made his name on the half back flank but we haven't played him there all year. Because we've played Bonner there instead. And that's just for starters.

I don't mind the idea of playing Sincs in the midfield, but I would like to see him play in the position that he made his own as well.

Most sides play running high half forwards as extra wingmen so those wing positions are up to around 4 spots and then the two running attacking HBs on top of that. Guys like Henry I guess are meant to be the inside outside spreaders.

We really need absolute ball pig mid like peak Libba to feed our outside brigade ideally. we are built for outside run, spread and speed. For what ever reason none of it looks particularly effective.

Geelong won a flag with a very limited inside brigade and lots of reload run. Richmond conceded clearance to rebound and reinvented the way footy is played. It should work but for whatever reason we can't make it work. At the moment it seems like our ball use and system is breaking it down.

 

[gringo2011]

Acres is a classic example of a player who became better because he is surrounded by elite talent. Was never gonna happen at the Saints

He played well at Freo and they weren't elite at the time. We never played him in his best spot.

 

[Teflon]

I’m a meandering type. Staying in one lane is dull.

What’s the wife say about it?

 

[Teflon]

I suspect it’s a by product of how much goals have been leaked from scores from turnovers this year, when exiting D50. We are top 3 for turnovers per game and training to transition the ball quickly has probably led to this.

I think this playing group just lacks a bit of IQ, struggles to find levers when to get it moving, when to hold back, so they’re now going from one extreme to another.

Bang on!
No on field leadership
Low IQ
Look at that last play from Webster WTF??
That’s not game plan
That’s dumb football

 

[Teflon]

That's how you want coaching decisions made at our club is it - "reading the room"....???

What about a witch doctor stirring chicken bones in a bowl? Never read so much drivel in my life. As for the nonsense about Pou "second guessing himself", yet more fabricated horse droppings - he still instinctively hand-passes, sometimes to his own detriment.......

Well said
How bout putting sone of the responsibility on lame, unskilled, low IQ players dropping chest marks, hand balling backwards, missing by foot, turning it over weekly when kicking in from D50, never kicking to advantage in F50 or my fav ….handballs to a player standing still next to them whose already under pressure????
Nah…..just all coaching???

 

[Teflon]

Like the same "AFL Industry" that thought Hardwick should have been sacked before he won 3 flags?!

Ignoring an echo chamber is not arrogance. The "entire AFL industry" have no idea what goes on inside our club, whether the players are following instructions or what problems the lack of continuity in our team so far this year may have created.

I do know that we looked badly like a team with no recognised small forwards. Instead, we had a high half forward fresh off a six-week lay-off brought straight back in as a small forward out of necessity, along with a what, a rotation of first year players?

AS a team with an already skinny midfield, we are going nowhere while our best mid of the past 2 years is out and we are trying to plug gaps with the likes of Seb Ross and a bunch of kids. The other wonderful alternative is that we rob our half back line of Sinclair to plug midfield gaps.

It will improve if we can have some stability in the team, but besides losing a game we should have won, and not playing particularly well, the sky has not fallen. If Dow can get going and add a layer to the midfield, that will help. If Crouch can get back out there in something resembling a match-fit condition, that will help enormously, but game style means little if you have to play way more kids than is ideal and you have to have a revolving door of changes every week.

Great post

 

[MrFoster]

Most sides play running high half forwards as extra wingmen so those wing positions are up to around 4 spots and then the two running attacking HBs on top of that. Guys like Henry I guess are meant to be the inside outside spreaders.

We really need absolute ball pig mid like peak Libba to feed our outside brigade ideally. we are built for outside run, spread and speed. For what ever reason none of it looks particularly effective.

Geelong won a flag with a very limited inside brigade and lots of reload run. Richmond conceded clearance to rebound and reinvented the way footy is played. It should work but for whatever reason we can't make it work. At the moment it seems like our ball use and system is breaking it down.

Having lots of runners only works if

1. you have excellent ball extractors to get them the ball CLEANLY and
2. these runners are in space streaming forward
3. you have open forward line or forward targets leading.

we have 0 out of 3

 

[pebblesofsand]

......... Wood was another Bonner that was meant to be a bit of depth. It just shows how bad drafting, trading and list management has actually been IMO.

OK I concede.

We are shite, everything we do is shite and even if we get something right it can only be through sheer luck because we are shite.

 

[seasonedsainter]

We lack hardness and leadership, but we're not light years away. RTB was barely contained fury in his presser. Let's see what happens.

PS I saw this so you must too --

 

[seasonedsainter]

 

[BrutThough]

Not being smug - just pointing out that getting rid Acres, Gresham, Long, Hind and Bytel hasn't cost us anything in terms of our all round team (or biting us on the bum) as was suggested.

We have equivalent or better replacements for all of them at zero net cost.

Gave Acres away for zilch (and saved $500k a year) got Wood for zilch on half the money.

End result

Mason Wood and Blake Acres AFL Stats Comparison

Mason Wood and Blake Acres AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

If people are looking for disastrous draft decisions to sh**can the club, they should look elsewhere.

You've got to remember that because we played badly on the weekend, every decision we've ever made was clearly wrong. We cant have made some good list management decisions on players in recent years or brought in anyone decent for nothing because we lost to Hawthorn.

 

[Ads734]

Absolute rubbish, none of our discards have embarrassed us.

Who do you prefer?

Acres or Wood
Gresham or Henry
Hind or Bonner
Long or Stocker
Bytel or Dow

Acres one hundred per cent has imo. The discussion is not Wood vs Acres

It’s Acres Serong Wokd vs Howard Hill and arguably Ryder. I know which I’d be choosing.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

View attachment 1988470

Not sure why you edited out one of the key architects of the Hawks victory

 

[BrutThough]

Acres one hundred per cent has imo. The discussion is not Wood vs Acres

It’s Acres Serong Wokd vs Howard Hill and arguably Ryder. I know which I’d be choosing.

How we are being embarrassed by Acres when it took him 3 years after we traded him to start playing consistent football and the club we traded him too didn't rate his performance highly enough to offer him a decent contract to stay?

 

[Ads734]

How we are being embarrassed by Acres when it took him 3 years after we traded him to start playing consistent football and the club we traded him too didn't rate his performance highly enough to offer him a decent contract to stay?

The reason they let him go was too afford Jackson. Does it matter how long it took him. We could all see how he was developed poorly. Now he’s with a coach who values him and plays him properly and look what he’s doing.

 

[gringo2011]

You've got to remember that because we played badly on the weekend, every decision we've ever made was clearly wrong. We cant have made some good list management decisions on players in recent years or brought in anyone decent for nothing because we lost to Hawthorn.

No we are still rebuilding after 15 years because of poor decision makers and crap staff. To bridge the gap we have to now over achieve. We have sacked lots of the absolute spuds but we can't afford to just coast. We have to keep making good decisions at a better rate than the rest of the comp to bridge the gap.

We spent 10 years excusing every mistake Trout made and never moved him on. If we have poor operators we need to move them on quickly this time or we will never move keep ahead of natural decline.

Lyon is looking like a bad model to build up our kids on because he is making the most of an ordinary list which keeps us out of the best picks and training the kids to play a really negative game style that is too heavily defensive and joyless.

People bag Bevo but his game is a very positive attacking brand and much nicer to watch. He's developing kids and playing new players and not winning much but you can see the brand holds up. If Lyon can't train a more motivating game style we should look at his position and any other staff that aren't at or above AFL standard.

Being happy with being shit isn't the way to get better.