Player Watch Pick #16 (2016) - Todd Marshall

[El_Scorcho]

The problem is that he hardly takes any contested mark . He inspired little confidence to his team mates that he can mark in the air so most of the footy fly towards Dixon . On the other hand , Frisch would have been as successful as Robbie Gray because he contest for fotty and plus street smart footballer . Marshall has been with port since 2016 . You can not label his short comings on the system as some of it was his own makings .

Contested marks are a failure of strategy. A good forward strategy would mean that we're not expecting our forwards to take pack marks all the time. Even having to take contested marks on a regular basis is proof that our forward strategy doesn't lend itself to scoring.

There are plenty of other key forwards in the league who don't have colossus builds, and they get by because their forward strategy tries to get them in space on the lead instead of ours, which intentionally creates pack situations.

If Marshall had been drafted by a different club everyone in this thread slagging him off would be bemoaning the fact that we can't develop forwards and pointing to Marshall as an example as a player we wish we had.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

We just don't develop them well and then play them in a system that doesn't allow them to be consistently successful.

That's it in a nutshell.

1. Poor development of talls
2. A poor forward line system - which relates strongly to 1.
3. Doesn't allow the talls to be consistently successful - which relates to 1 and 2.

A lot of our forward system is set up to go against the grain of what a natural forwards wants to do, that is, dominate their direct opponent.
And there is no level of consistency to our forward line structure so its hard to get on runs and cement form and things like that. I mean if you lead a couple of times in the first quarter and nail those set shots, the opposing coach starts to think about changes instantly.

The forward line structure doesn't allow for consistent success.
The poor forward structure stunts the growth of the way a natural forward plays.
Even something as simple as Jed as a defensive forward doesn't make sense in the system because you want to bring the ball to ground and score first and if that doesn't happy then keep it in but by then you have huge numbers around the ball for a stoppage and it is much more difficult to score.

Hinkley's gameplan overall is kinda an antithesis of the modern game where you are trying to create space in the forward line and limiting space in the backline. That's why I like Collingwood who do everything they can related to speed and space.

 

[philthy05]

I’m not sure there’s a kf who would be more negatively impacted by playing in hinkleys gameplan than fritsch. He would have been on the scrap heap long ago if drafted here.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

The Hot One is correct.

Contested marking and especially bombing it in long into the forward line should be the last strategy of any forward line structure.

 

[Frank Hansen II]

Contested marks are a failure of strategy. A good forward strategy would mean that we're not expecting our forwards to take pack marks all the time. Even having to take contested marks on a regular basis is proof that our forward strategy doesn't lend itself to scoring.

There are plenty of other key forwards in the league who don't have colossus builds, and they get by because their forward strategy tries to get them in space on the lead instead of ours, which intentionally creates pack situations.

If Marshall had been drafted by a different club everyone in this thread slagging him off would be bemoaning the fact that we can't develop forwards and pointing to Marshall as an example as a player we wish we had.

Very true. I feel like Marshall also doesn't get a lot of the front on contact frees he deserves either; when he gets some separation it's usually dropping back and the defenders just run into the front of him with no eyes for the ball. Wouldn't matter if he kept hold of the mark (which I think he could do better in these situations) but they don't seem to call the free for Marshall.

 

[Windy Cindy]

I’m sick of reading about stats with this bloke and blaming this and that.. go and watch him live, he’s non competitive both with and without the ball.. should have been dropped 4 weeks ago and never picked until he has a decent crack.

He’s weak over the footy, he’s weak trying to get the footy and he’s especially weak in the air. The club is weak to allow this type of effort to be rewarded with a game and a bloody 5 year extension.

his game against Carlton was shithouse.. don’t care how bad Dixon was, Marshall was shithouse.

 

[philthy05]

I’m sick of reading about stats with this bloke and blaming this and that.. go and watch him live, he’s non competitive both with and without the ball.. should have been dropped 4 weeks ago and never picked until he has a decent crack.

He’s weak over the footy, he’s weak trying to get the footy and he’s especially weak in the air. The club is weak to allow this type of effort to be rewarded with a game and a bloody 5 year extension.

his game against Carlton was shithouse.. don’t care how bad Dixon was, Marshall was shithouse.

There’s so much about your post that doesn’t make sense and you just keep doubling down on your opinions about Todd no matter what.

Basically you don’t care what anything else says you just dislike Todd is what you’re saying.


like, if Todd is so completely and utterly shit and uncompetitive, but his results , in a ****ing shitshow of a forward system that hampers him more than anyone else are comparable to our other kfs of this era , are you arguing that those kfs are also non competitive and shit?

Todd 1.5g 1 ga
Mitch 1.8g 0.2 ga

Is Mitch shit and non competitive?

Dixon’s last 3 seasons
1.6g 0.4ga
1.3g 0.8ga
2.0g 0.5 ga



How many of the last 3 years was Dixon, our star kf who we play through at every opportunity shit and non-competitive?



At some stage you either have to face the facts and say either

A) All of our kfs by your measure are shit and non competitive, in which case all evidence says we can’t either find good kfs or we ruin them and turfing or blaming Todd is dumb as it exacerbates the issue not solves it

B) Todd is shit and non-competitive and still delivers comparable results to non shit competitive players

In which case ****ing lol. What point is there in turfing Todd.

But none of this will change your mind. It’s the vibe right. If there were stats for making mean faces and crashing into your own teammates Todd would rank pretty low and if that’s what makes a good kf I guess he’s pretty shit.

 

[Windy Cindy]

There’s so much about your post that doesn’t make sense and you just keep doubling down on your opinions about Todd no matter what.

Basically you don’t care what anything else says you just dislike Todd is what you’re saying.


like, if Todd is so completely and utterly shit and uncompetitive, but his results , in a ****ing shitshow of a forward system that hampers him more than anyone else are comparable to our other kfs of this era , are you arguing that those kfs are also non competitive and shit?

Todd 1.5g 1 ga
Mitch 1.8g 0.2 ga

Is Mitch shit and non competitive?

Dixon’s last 3 seasons
1.6g 0.4ga
1.3g 0.8ga
2.0g 0.5 ga



How many of the last 3 years was Dixon, our star kf who we play through at every opportunity shit and non-competitive?



At some stage you either have to face the facts and say either

A) All of our kfs by your measure are shit and non competitive, in which case all evidence says we can’t either find good kfs or we ruin them and turfing or blaming Todd is dumb as it exacerbates the issue not solves it

B) Todd is shit and non-competitive and still delivers comparable results to non shit competitive players

In which case ****ing lol. What point is there in turfing Todd.

But none of this will change your mind. It’s the vibe right. If there were stats for making mean faces and crashing into your own teammates Todd would rank pretty low and if that’s what makes a good kf I guess he’s pretty shit.

Do you actually go and watch him, or just refer to stats.. you couldn’t go live and defend him, no way.. he’s undefendable live.

 

[philthy05]

Do you actually go and watch him, or just refer to stats.. you couldn’t go live and defend him, no way.. he’s undefendable live.

Yes I’ve seen him live as if that would matter.

lol at you confirming everything I said in my post.

 

[Windy Cindy]

Yes I’ve seen him live as if that would matter.

lol at you confirming everything I said in my post.

Confirming zippo, no point arguing with ya.. your a stat man.. who doesn’t attend.

Enjoy his career.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

1. Your first point is plain wrong. Everyone with eyes knows we targeted our kfs differently. Todd had more one on ones that year than I’ve seen us go to a kf in hinkleys entire stint.

If we were actually playing to Marshall's strengths in 2022, then its even worse considering how poor most of his results in the first half of 2022 were.

2. Every kf in the league plays those teams and doesn’t get their goals dismissed.

You're kidding right? Even last year Walker and Curnow were both being talked down because they both kicked 19 goals against West Coast.

Even here we we talk down about Walker or Fogarty kicking big bags against a terrible West Coast.

3. You’re entirely willing to dismiss Todd’s year as dining out on shit teams as if that’s easier for kfs to score bulk goals on.

Didn't dismiss his whole year, he was actually much more consistent against everyone in the second half of 2022. But guess what happened just before the bye that year?

As I already proved Dixon’s goal average actually drops against the kangaroos. He’s never kicked more than 2 against them for port.

Dixon played his games against North when they had half decent key defenders in Scott Thompson and Tarrant. Unlike Todd's last games against North.

McKay was out injured in 2022, and played on Lord in 2023.

Thats how Todd shows himself as a number 1 forward against key defenders. He needs them to be paying attention to someone else, or just not playing.

 

[Sewer de Lance]

I’m astounded that people still defend this guy, & blame Ken for all his shortcomings. He’s as non-competitive as they come, rarely breaks open packs to bring the ball to ground, allows his opponent front position way to often, looks disinterested, & has a really poor work rate.

He would be one of the first players I’d put on the trade table.

 

[TeeKray]

Has there ever been a player with more excuses made for them, it's astounding.

 

[Cam1870]

Has there ever been a player with more excuses made for them, it's astounding.

The most damning with faint praise statement you can have is "good below his knees for a big man". The unsaid thing is everything you usually demand from them...crashing packs, bringing ball to ground, pack marks, physical presence is not there.
Todd, unfortunately is great below his knees for a big man.
Also extremely modern Port .. 5 goals, exceptional against the roos, virtually unsighted against good opposition. The only tall ever developed under Ken is the exact barometer of Ken's team of downhill skiers.

 

[philthy05]

Has there ever been a player with more excuses made for them, it's astounding.

“Excuses”


Like me pointing out Todd’s stats are comparable to our other kfs so either they’re all shit and non-competitive or Todd’s uncompetitive shit play is capable of similar results?

Or the excuses that Todd only dines out on playing the same shit teams that everyone plays?



Or are you referring to people pointing out our gameplan is horrendous for kfs in general and especially kfs not named Dixon?


Because if were going to sit here and call that an “excuse” you might as well shit in our mouths and tell us it’s raining.

Cause it’s entirely accepted here amongst the fan base that it is the truth.

To on one hand bemoan our shit coach and his shit gameplan in the forward line, then say , hey campaigners guess what, now I’m going to deny such a thing exists when debating this players performances in that forward gameplan is gaslighting of the highest order.

 

[Powerage]

“Excuses”


Like me pointing out Todd’s stats are comparable to our other kfs so either they’re all shit and non-competitive or Todd’s uncompetitive shit play is capable of similar results?

Or the excuses that Todd only dines out on playing the same shit teams that everyone plays?



Or are you referring to people pointing out our gameplan is horrendous for kfs in general and especially kfs not named Dixon?


Because if were going to sit here and call that an “excuse” you might as well shit in our mouths and tell us it’s raining.

Cause it’s entirely accepted here amongst the fan base that it is the truth.

To on one hand bemoan our shit coach and his shit gameplan in the forward line, then say , hey campaigners guess what, now I’m going to deny such a thing exists when debating this players performances in that forward gameplan is gaslighting of the highest order.

You've got me really intrigued about that shitting in your mouth while telling you its raining thing...

 

[bomberclifford]

Special Todd.
Statistical Ubermensch.

 

[JohnHinckleyJr]

There’s so much about your post that doesn’t make sense and you just keep doubling down on your opinions about Todd no matter what.

Basically you don’t care what anything else says you just dislike Todd is what you’re saying.


like, if Todd is so completely and utterly shit and uncompetitive, but his results , in a ****ing shitshow of a forward system that hampers him more than anyone else are comparable to our other kfs of this era , are you arguing that those kfs are also non competitive and shit?

Todd 1.5g 1 ga
Mitch 1.8g 0.2 ga

Is Mitch shit and non competitive?

Dixon’s last 3 seasons
1.6g 0.4ga
1.3g 0.8ga
2.0g 0.5 ga



How many of the last 3 years was Dixon, our star kf who we play through at every opportunity shit and non-competitive?



At some stage you either have to face the facts and say either

A) All of our kfs by your measure are shit and non competitive, in which case all evidence says we can’t either find good kfs or we ruin them and turfing or blaming Todd is dumb as it exacerbates the issue not solves it

B) Todd is shit and non-competitive and still delivers comparable results to non shit competitive players

In which case ****ing lol. What point is there in turfing Todd.

But none of this will change your mind. It’s the vibe right. If there were stats for making mean faces and crashing into your own teammates Todd would rank pretty low and if that’s what makes a good kf I guess he’s pretty shit.

Leave mitch outta this

 

[klem22]

Todd is a flyweight will never be in it when the temperature rises.
Our forward line is very average to say the least!

 

[Chewy316]

Crazy to think Hawthorn offered him 1M per year prior to signing his new deal at Port. Never going to lead a forward line - not sure he's an adequate #2 either. Probably best off playing slightly higher up the ground where he can deliver some more kicks inside 50 which is a strength of his.

Still only 25 years old but it's his 8th season in the league and outside of season 2022 he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. Of greater concern, seasons 2020, 21, 23 and 24 pretty much all look the same - certainly haven't seen big jumps in his development over the last 5 years.

When I look at the rest of the comp, I can think of plenty of KPFs I'd rather ahead of Marshall:

• Curnow and McKay at Carlton
• Langford at Essendon (and possibly Wright)
• Cameron at Geelong (and Hawkins if it were a one off game)
• Treacy at Freo (and possibly Amiss)
• Hogan and Riccardi at GWS
• Ben King and Lukosius at Gold Coast
• Mihocek at Collingwood
• Naughton, Darcy and Ugle-Hagan at the Bulldogs
• Daniher at Brisbane
• Walker, Fogarty and Thilthorpe at West Lakes
• Max King at St Kilda
• Nick Larkey at North

So there's 19 ahead of him, up to 22. Then there's around another 8-10 who are on a similar level. Puts him as a low end #2 KPF which on face value sounds about right.

Absurd that he's on such a long term contract at 800k+ per year - probably should have chosen not to match Hawthorn's offer at the end of the year and gotten a first round pick.

 

[TeeKray]

I don't know who is dumber - Marshall for not taking the $1m a year or Port for paying him $800k to stay.

 

[bringbackbucky]

Has there ever been a player with more excuses made for them, it's astounding.

Charlie Dixon?

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Has there ever been a player with more excuses made for them, it's astounding.

Next you will be defending this blatant sexual assault.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Across 2022 and 2023, Marshall averaged more goals against top 8 sides than he did against bottom 10 sides. This idea that he can't do it against good teams is incorrect and not reflected by the stats.

This guy with "no presence" having a "shit year" is currently 2nd in the league for Marks inside 50 and first among KPFs in the league for goal assists, is leading our goals kicked, is comfortably our best player in terms of goal contributions (G+GA).

• Curnow and McKay at Carlton
• Langford at Essendon (and possibly Wright)
• Cameron at Geelong (and Hawkins if it were a one off game)
• Treacy at Freo (and possibly Amiss)
• Hogan and Riccardi at GWS
• Ben King and Lukosius at Gold Coast
• Mihocek at Collingwood
• Naughton, Darcy and Ugle-Hagan at the Bulldogs
• Daniher at Brisbane
• Walker, Fogarty and Thilthorpe at West Lakes
• Max King at St Kilda
• Nick Larkey at North

How many of these guys would be performing to the same level in a Ken Hinkley forward line. I can tell you how many, it's 0.

Some of these are laughable. Fogarty and Thilthorpe? Riccardi? Lukosius? even Ugle-Hagan? Based on what? Vibes? Or actual demonstrated performance?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Has there ever been a player with more excuses made for them, it's astounding.

Has there ever been a player who has copped this level of shit given his output?