List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours:

• Tom Barrass officially requests trade to Hawthorn
  • Duffield: Eagles want two first round picks - "It may have to be in this year’s draft rather than a future pick."
  • Morris: Josh Battle is set to join Barrass at Hawthorn in 2025 - Ralph: Unclear if Hawks will pay enough for Band 1

• Kysaiah Pickett interested in a trade
  • "Club and management are confident they can work through his concerns"
  • Daniels: Pickett’s preference is Fremantle. Fremantle are keen, but Bolton the priority. Getting both “not impossible”. West Coast “an option if things get complicated.”

• Jai Culley, Coen Livingstone, Loch Rawlinson in line for one-year deals (The West)
  
  
• Liam Baker and Shai Bolton
  15

  Shai Bolton

  Age

  26

  Ht

  176cm

  Wt

  77kg

  Pos.

  M/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  12.3

  3star

  K

  6.9

  3star

  HB

  5.4

  4star

  M

  2.8

  3star

  T

  2.9

  4star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  D

  12.7

  3star

  K

  9.2

  4star

  HB

  3.5

  2star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  CL

  1.8

  4star

  D

  9.2

  3star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  4.6

  4star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  CL

  0.0

  1star

  officially request trades to WA
  • Daniels: Bolton is Fremantle’s priority

 

[Obeanie1]

Allan was always going to be a slow burn but will have 2 years of development under his belt. I loved DeMattia last year but had a bad finger injury start of the year. Gee adding freo in would be interesting, I’d rather get one of their 1R picks than Erasmus.

Net result
Collingwood F1+ Collingwood R1 (From Freo) + DeMattia for Barrass…

You pulling the trigger?

I would. Not sure Pies would.

If we could land DeMattia or Erasmus plus a F1st Id do that never mind a 3rd component.

Holding a 2nd 1st rounder in 2025 would be interesting with Warner coming out of contract.

 

[DeckedOut20]

As we reach the halfway point of the season, I wanted to take a moment to review our players' performances compared to last season.

Positive = Chess, Waterman, and J.Williams stand out as our top three most improved players.
Negative = Only 10 of the 34 (29%) players that played both this year and last year, have improved.

While some players have faced injuries either this year, last year, or both, and others have transitioned from different clubs or made their debut this season.

Optimistic about seeing further improvements in the second half of the season.

*Data is based off 'Player Ratings' (https://www.afl.com.au/news/453167/player-ratings-frequently-asked-questions)

 

[Obeanie1]

Incorrect, Jake has shown this year he can play as a stay at home forward and clunk marks close to goals.
He has always done this at wafl level but has obviously always been behind kennedy,darling, Allen so has been played up the ground
Given the opportunity this season he's shown what he can do.
It'll be interesting to see how they manage the forward line once allen is back

On SM-S921B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Um no you dont understand how Jake uses his running power.

If Waterman didnt take his man up the ground and lose them running back he would be ignoring one of his best assets and allowing his opponent to save their energy to defend.

He is a very clever forward who uses his endurance and running paterns to get seperation when he is leading in the forward line. He wears down his opponent with long running paterns. Losing so much weight IMO has helped get this part of bis game to elite levels. Not being able to drink alcohol also a factor.

Jake isnt a plonk him in the goal square FF. Rare footballer the stay at home FF. He does play his best leading from the goal square deep but that is after he has got his opponent puffing for air or losing them in traffic.

Oh and Allen has bulked up a lot in his rehab. A lot. Jake will easily out run Oscar and cover the ground much better when they both are playing later this season.

 

[Obeanie1]

Apparently his back is knackered. Seems pretty durable regardless

On SM-S921B using BigFooty.com mobile app

So knackered Barrass is having a better season than last year.

 

[Obeanie1]

Barrass is worth a top 10 pick straight up, KPP are some of the most valuable players as they take so long to develop. Pies have nothing close to that.

I don't think they even have players they could trade to us. They're either older guns that don't have enough time left on their career, marquis players like Daicos (who aren't going anywhere), or young guys playing roles (who could develop into stars later but why risk that when we can get that from the draft).

Collingwood is built on system and a few gun players holding it together. The guns won't be leaving and the others are role players who will look dead average in another team. If TB asks to go to Collingwood we'll have to stick him to his contract.

Collingwood are always in the trade game. They are ruthless.

They have future 1sts.

They have DeMattia and Allan (trade to Freo for one of their 2024 1sts or Erasmus).

Pies could come up with two late 1sts one this year one next year. And a 20 year old midfielder of interest.

Its what they do.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Whats more pressing?

Improving the midfield or shoring up our half back line?

Id be focusing on the midfield.

Can get a Busslinger for a 2nd.

And half backs also slide to the 2nd round.

With Kelly and Reid out the midfield looked pretty slow and thin, we were spanked at contested and clearances.

What’s more pressing?
To me there’s a couple of considerations that go into this question, firstly around our future outlook. How confident are we we’ll be able to get hewett on the field and do we have any confidence in being able to land Warner. The second is what’s the differential between a pick 3-5 midfielder in this draft and 8-10?

That second question is probably the bigger question which I don’t know the answer to I’d want to know before I blindly said we suck in midfield must take best midfielder given our options to build our list.

To me travaglia looks like Hayden Young, outside of smilie I’m not sure anyone has really announced themselves as a standout but I’m asking whether that is the case rather than saying it to be so.

Just really like travaglia but get the hesitation after picking half backs for years and still not having any elite half backs.

 

[Obeanie1]

What’s more pressing?
To me there’s a couple of considerations that go into this question, firstly around our future outlook. How confident are we we’ll be able to get hewett on the field and do we have any confidence in being able to land Warner. The second is what’s the differential between a pick 3-5 midfielder in this draft and 8-10?

That second question is probably the bigger question which I don’t know the answer to I’d want to know before I blindly said we suck in midfield must take best midfielder given our options to build our list.

To me travaglia looks like Hayden Young, outside of smilie I’m not sure anyone has really announced themselves as a standout but I’m asking whether that is the case rather than saying it to be so.

Just really like travaglia but get the hesitation after picking half backs for years and still not having any elite half backs.

Feel have an elite defensive half back in Hough already.

We need an elite rebounding ball user.

Travaglia from the little Ive seen looks like a Sheppard type half back. Good overhead, intercepting mark. Good hands in close with a good kick and agility. We drafted Sheppard as a mid but that didnt work out. Bloody good defender though.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

As we reach the halfway point of the season, I wanted to take a moment to review our players' performances compared to last season.

Positive = Chess, Waterman, and J.Williams stand out as our top three most improved players.
Negative = Only 10 of the 34 (29%) players that played both this year and last year, have improved.

While some players have faced injuries either this year, last year, or both, and others have transitioned from different clubs or made their debut this season.

Optimistic about seeing further improvements in the second half of the season.

*Data is based off 'Player Ratings' (https://www.afl.com.au/news/453167/player-ratings-frequently-asked-questions)


View attachment 2018295

Dunno how they calculate that “player rating” but if it says that Hough is having a worse year than last year then it’s flawed.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Heard that Busslinger won't be picked again this week and is (very understandably) pretty frustrated by it

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Feel have an elite defensive half back in Hough already.

We need an elite rebounding ball user.

Travaglia from the little Ive seen looks like a Sheppard type half back. Good overhead, intercepting mark. Good hands in close with a good kick and agility. We drafted Sheppard as a mid but that didnt work out. Bloody good defender though.

Sorry I do agree Hough has been fantastic this year, just in my head had him more as a back pocket as I believe most of his jobs, or the most memorable, have been on negating elite small forwards. 100% agree it’s the rebounding player with pace and great kicking we need to setup plays from defence.

Bloody shame shep couldn’t play out his career, was just one of those guys like emac who would never let you down.

 

[ToastieBoy18]

So why did TB extend last year when considering the same option, only to come back to it this year??

Not having a dig, genuinely trying to understand

TB didn't extend last year. He extended his contract in 2021 that takes him through to 2027. Last year he knocked back significant interest from Sydney.

Strikes me as someone who potentially needs a new challenge and to a club that are contending makes sense.

The Eagles would need serious compensation, otherwise I would hope we would not entertain the idea.

 

[SumaGodCoach]

Heard that Busslinger won't be picked again this week and is (very understandably) pretty frustrated by it

If they know for sure that he's gone they won't pick him all year. All rumours coming out of the WB board say that he is going.

 

[eaglevision]

I would. Not sure Pies would.

If we could land DeMattia or Erasmus plus a F1st Id do that never mind a 3rd component.

Holding a 2nd 1st rounder in 2025 would be interesting with Warner coming out of contract.

I really think that’s undervalued Barrass. Been a top 5 KPD in the comp for the last 5 years, contracted for 3+ years on a modest salary with the CBA increase, 28yo premiership FB who would be set and forget for the next 4-5 years in a team with a premiership window.

If we’re looking at Pies or Swans then 2 late 1Rs (which end up picks in the 20s) and a player like DeMattia or Sheldrick with a 3R going back is the price it would take to release him for mine. Otherwise sorry TB, you’re contracted.

 

[Bacchus]

I would. Not sure Pies would.

If we could land DeMattia or Erasmus plus a F1st Id do that never mind a 3rd component.

Holding a 2nd 1st rounder in 2025 would be interesting with Warner coming out of contract.

Collingwood need key position players, although they are managing quite well with one or two plus Frampton.

Barrass is one of our major assets who is contracted for several years. He is an outstanding experienced key position player which makes him very valuable and in high demand. We have to leverage a significant return if he was to go.

I don’t think a low first and a mid range second round player does it. They coughed up more than this for Schulz.

Time for the soft bargaining to cease.

 

[DeckedOut20]

Dunno how they calculate that “player rating” but if it says that Hough is having a worse year than last year then it’s flawed.

G'day MS,

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from, sometimes I scratch my head when reviewing.

There might not ever be a universally accepted statistic for a players contribution towards the game, however, this is the closest we have and people much smarter than me use it for a lot of their work.

Looking quickly at some stats that I feel are reasonably consistent of what's asked of him/he brings to the team:
TOG: +2.4%
Disposals: -4.6%
Disposal Eff: -8.4%
I50: +33%
R50: +31%
Metres Gained: +48%
Turnovers: +82%
Marks: -8.8%
Int Marks: -38%
Def 1v1: -20%
Loss %: -200%
Tackles: -15%
Spoils: +15%
Pressure Acts: -23%

You can related some of the above data to the game plan shift of moving forward instead of sideways.

Now this is not me having a go at Houghy, I am a huge fan, just likely what would be contributing towards his overall rating being less than 2023 by 11.86%.

I agree that Brady certainly looks a better player to the naked eye, most notably his agility with stepping around closing opponents. However, these physical improvements aren't measured in statistics, therefore not represented. I have no doubt the club tracks all that internally. Data we would love but will never see.

The link in previous post dives in to the player ratings, but I can understand its not going to be for everyone.

 

[eaglevision]

Dunno how they calculate that “player rating” but if it says that Hough is having a worse year than last year then it’s flawed.

The one thing they don’t take into account is shutting down the opposition player. Hough has kept a number of dangerous forward quiet this year and that’s not reflected in the ratings. His value is not only when he has the ball, but when he doesn’t have the ball. Would currently be top 5 in B&F IMO.

 

[Tugga27]

If they know for sure that he's gone they won't pick him all year. All rumours coming out of the WB board say that he is going.

Not really.
They know Lobb is going and he's still getting picked.

Anyway, I seriously doubt he's told them he's going.
Have to wait and see if he does get selected this week I guess.

 

[ToastieBoy18]

If they know for sure that he's gone they won't pick him all year. All rumours coming out of the WB board say that he is going.

To be honest, I think quite the opposite. If they know he is going, they should be playing him, to try and get the best value for him.

Dockers did this with Liam Henry last year. They knew he was on the move, they all of a sudden gave him a nice role in the team where he played well and got a good deal for him.

 

[WCE_phil]

Busslinger will be a very, very good Key defender, he still needs to put on about 7-8kg's of muscle and add to his core strength. He would be my number 1 priority trade target.

Do not want Baker, he's not great with the ball. He's agile, he's good and clean on the pickup and has a great little burst of speed but he's not and never will be anything more than a roleplayer. If he was 23 and it was an early second round pick i'd be half interested but to pay for in a trade at his age, no thanks.

Isaac Cumming

44

Isaac Cumming

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.3

4star

MG

158.0

2star

D

9.5

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

MG

158.0

3star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.6

4star

is a moneyball type free agent who would be a good pick up if he can show he is over his injuries by the end of the year.

Do not want to lose Yeo. He wants security but there is definitely more to this than just his agent. There were rumours he was very annoyed at how the club handled his injuries over the previous seasons and he was the only one of the 3 players that the club paid for everything for the overseas specialist trip. Him leaving would royally **** the club in regards to chasing free agents. His combative aggression and style on the field is great for the young mids.

Barrass I don't know. I wouldn't be happy to lose him, I just know what I was told and that at trade time last season he wouldn't have passed Sydney's medical at the time. He might now. The guy is very much an intellectual and not 'one of the boys' if you will. The swans biggest need moving forward is a Key defender. I didn't think McCartin would make it back from the last concussion. Rampe is 34. I would only look at the trade if they or we could trade their first rounder plus the north priority pick for whichever of GC picks is closest to pick 10 and a future first.

I still think Richmond will leapfrog us and the club finishes 17th.

I don't think Fremantle would want to trade but they are probably looking for cream. As of right now I would entertain trading pick 2 and our future second for 2 of their first rounders (including whichest is lowest) and their future first. I see a lot of very good players at the next level but no huge standouts at the very top of the draft.

If we lost Barrass, kept Yeo, brought in Busslinger, a decent free agent and had pick 9, 12, 15 and 2 future firsts plus our own I would be very happy with that. Future second for Buss.

 

[pantskyle]

If Buss is likely out the door and we're a destination for him it does make sense that the Dogs would be keen on Barrass.
From what I understand Hawks are balls deep into Baily Smith. What is his value?

If we work on current draft order.
Hawks Pick 7 for Smith
Barrass for pick 7 and Buss

Throw around some second rounders to land at those getting needing more.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Busslinger will be a very, very good Key defender, he still needs to put on about 7-8kg's of muscle and add to his core strength. He would be my number 1 priority trade target.

Do not want Baker, he's not great with the ball. He's agile, he's good and clean on the pickup and has a great little burst of speed but he's not and never will be anything more than a roleplayer. If he was 23 and it was an early second round pick i'd be half interested but to pay for in a trade at his age, no thanks.

Isaac Cumming is a moneyball type free agent who would be a good pick up if he can show he is over his injuries by the end of the year.

Do not want to lose Yeo. He wants security but there is definitely more to this than just his agent. There were rumours he was very annoyed at how the club handled his injuries over the previous seasons and he was the only one of the 3 players that the club paid for everything for the overseas specialist trip. Him leaving would royally **** the club in regards to chasing free agents. His combative aggression and style on the field is great for the young mids.

Barrass I don't know. I wouldn't be happy to lose him, I just know what I was told and that at trade time last season he wouldn't have passed Sydney's medical at the time. He might now. The guy is very much an intellectual and not 'one of the boys' if you will. The swans biggest need moving forward is a Key defender. I didn't think McCartin would make it back from the last concussion. Rampe is 34. I would only look at the trade if they or we could trade their first rounder plus the north priority pick for whichever of GC picks is closest to pick 10 and a future first.

I still think Richmond will leapfrog us and the club finishes 17th.

I don't think Fremantle would want to trade but they are probably looking for cream. As of right now I would entertain trading pick 2 and our future second for 2 of their first rounders (including whichest is lowest) and their future first. I see a lot of very good players at the next level but no huge standouts at the very top of the draft.

If we lost Barrass, kept Yeo, brought in Busslinger, a decent free agent and had pick 9, 12, 15 and 2 future firsts plus our own I would be very happy with that. Future second for Buss.

This is pretty much how I see it too. Only thing is I'd like to have a top 6 pick to pretty much guarantee a Lalor/Hotton

 

[Patron]

If barrass wants to leave and we can turn him into busslinger and a legit first rounder we do it. Think yeo is more important short to medium term and as a free agent unless we got band one we are probably better keeping him. We are lacking draft capital though so I think on balance losing one of those would be good for the rebuild. We do have a decent amount of seniors guys still with gov, Duggan, Kelly, Flynn, cripps, Allen, waterman, darling etc.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[FKASC]

can buss stop

is he easy to coach or more of a passenger

 

[Tugga27]

If barrass wants to leave and we can turn him into busslinger and a legit first rounder we do it. Think yeo is more important short to medium term and as a free agent unless we got band one we are probably better keeping him. We are lacking draft capital though so I think on balance losing one of those would be good for the rebuild. We do have a decent amount of seniors guys still with gov, Duggan, Kelly, Flynn, cripps, Allen, waterman, darling etc.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I'd be wanting a top 10 pick plus Busslinger for TB at the very least.

 

[Barrybran]

G'day MS,

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from, sometimes I scratch my head when reviewing.

There might not ever be a universally accepted statistic for a players contribution towards the game, however, this is the closest we have and people much smarter than me use it for a lot of their work.

Looking quickly at some stats that I feel are reasonably consistent of what's asked of him/he brings to the team:
TOG: +2.4%
Disposals: -4.6%
Disposal Eff: -8.4%
I50: +33%
R50: +31%
Metres Gained: +48%
Turnovers: +82%
Marks: -8.8%
Int Marks: -38%
Def 1v1: -20%
Loss %: -200%
Tackles: -15%
Spoils: +15%
Pressure Acts: -23%

You can related some of the above data to the game plan shift of moving forward instead of sideways.

Now this is not me having a go at Houghy, I am a huge fan, just likely what would be contributing towards his overall rating being less than 2023 by 11.86%.

I agree that Brady certainly looks a better player to the naked eye, most notably his agility with stepping around closing opponents. However, these physical improvements aren't measured in statistics, therefore not represented. I have no doubt the club tracks all that internally. Data we would love but will never see.

The link in previous post dives in to the player ratings, but I can understand its not going to be for everyone.

It would be interesting to see these stats adjusted for forward entries