List Mgmt. 2024 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

 

[Kbroome]

Telling someone we have the best ruck combo when most fans and neutrals would disagree comes across as ignorant. Then, having a go at someone for having a different opinion to yours is a shit look.

IMO

Statistically speaking they are the best ruck duo in the comp. Just because they are a big name doesn't mean they are the "best". I think if anything your comment comes across as ignorant given what the stats say, i was shocked when i first saw it but it makes sense given that McLean is the perfect ruck foil to Grundy.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Freo have offered there first 3 picks for Bolton and baker

10,11 and 18?

Jeez thats risky

Richmond might end up with 5 top 20 picks.

 

[caesar88]

We don't really know if our interest has only been late or if player managers then journos are just saying that to protect a player from the club they stayed at. As much as it shows loyalty if they stay despite interest, it would also highlight them potentially entertaining that interest for a while.

Hanily we drafted in the MSD, I assume with the intent of being a small forward. He was promising and assuming we keep him, hopefully pushes for selection.

Of the 4 Lions "small forwards" you refer to, only 2 were small forwards at drafting. Cameron and Lohmann. Bailey was an inside mid (like Cleary) and Ah Chee an outside mid / half forward (like Campbell). If we actually changed our structure, what is not to say that we can't find a few players to help Paps and Hayward in the small/medium options.

That is a good point, though there is a difference I suppose in a 25 year old, 140-gamer Zac Bailey kicking 20+ goals in a season as a small forward and Caiden Cleary doing it at 19 with two full games under his belt. This is what I mean, it's just... not a very convincing group.

I agree though that for all we know, they could end up great. I think Cleary showed some promise as a guy who could buzz around like an angry mosquito inside 50. Campbell and Florent are both quick and can win the ball at ground level, Campbell is a very good tackler as well. Wicks is Wicks, we know what we can get from him, it's just a matter of whether he does it consistently or not.

I just don't know if Horse & co will go through with it.

 

[rustycrate]

I just dont see it sorry our Ruck* and KPD stocks are extremely vulnerable to missing huge chunks of the season.

I expect 2025 will be more about the message rather than team changes.

This is what I mean.

Don't just say our stocks are extremely vulnerable. If you say that then offer a solution.
Bearing in mind we are probably salary cap restrained. Bearing in mind few players want to move to Sydney. Bearing in mind we want the best players.

What do you suggest to improve the ruck and defence?

 

[Punts]

Could m

Why not rehome McLean down back. Can mark, is quick over short distances.

Been plenty of Fwds move back and excel, Chris tarrant, Jeremy Howe even Mccartin

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Do a Lobb?

 

[rustycrate]

Freo have offered there first 3 picks for Bolton and baker

Dumb.

 

[FreeAgent1]

Freo have offered there first 3 picks for Bolton and baker

Use all that TPP money, now re-sign Bradshaw on $10m deal and done.

 

[Kbroome]

Dumb.

Agree is Bolton worth 2 firsts, personally probably would be worth like 14 & 18. But thats not even what Freo has given its 10, 11 and 18. Add to that Baker isn't worth 10. Feels like it should be 11 18 and a second

 

[Bloods86]

Statistically speaking they are the best ruck duo in the comp. Just because they are a big name doesn't mean they are the "best". I think if anything your comment comes across as ignorant given what the stats say, i was shocked when i first saw it but it makes sense given that McLean is the perfect ruck foil to Grundy.

What do those stats mean, particularly the first one?

 

[Kbroome]

What do those stats mean, particularly the first one?

Its hit out differential so say the hitouts are 44-39 the Swans way in a game they would be +5. You sum the differential of each game and then divide by games played. Its a good statistic because it eliminates game styles that are more uncontested or vice versa and that of a contested brand. It also eliminates outliers of piss down games where there are 130 ruck contests.

The second one is the differential but with reference to the hit outs to advantage.

Im surprised at how bad the Freo ruckman are given how much they are talked up and the eye test would suggest that they should be the best but i guess that could be influenced by Darcy not getting on the park

 

[Bloods86]

That is a good point, though there is a difference I suppose in a 25 year old, 140-gamer Zac Bailey kicking 20+ goals in a season as a small forward and Caiden Cleary doing it at 19 with two full games under his belt. This is what I mean, it's just... not a very convincing group.

I agree though that for all we know, they could end up great. I think Cleary showed some promise as a guy who could buzz around like an angry mosquito inside 50. Campbell and Florent are both quick and can win the ball at ground level, Campbell is a very good tackler as well. Wicks is Wicks, we know what we can get from him, it's just a matter of whether he does it consistently or not.

I just don't know if Horse & co will go through with it.

It's still a bit older than Cleary, but Bailey kicked 31 goals as a 21 year old.

 

[Cadsky]

Why not rehome McLean down back. Can mark, is quick over short distances.

Been plenty of Fwds move back and excel, Chris tarrant, Jeremy Howe even Mccartin

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I actually don't mind this idea. He's the big body we need to take the gorilla forwards that always punish us.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Why not rehome McLean down back. Can mark, is quick over short distances.

Been plenty of Fwds move back and excel, Chris tarrant, Jeremy Howe even Mccartin

Sent from my SM-A546E using Tapatalk

That's a pretty good suggestion, I wonder if they've tried it.

 

[Jimbo OZ]

It may be flawed and incomplete, but that is what we have. Bringing in Stringer, Barass and the like to me would be desperate and possibly harmful to the chemistry of the team and the club. This is the sort of thing that clubs like Essendon do. It seems to supporters that that is the answer, but it isn't. It is false hope.
The defenders
Who could you bring in. Probably no one. We have two developing talls in Snell and Edwards. We have two experienced backups in Hamling and Francis. We are likely to bring in academy prospect in Cochrane this year. Smalls and mediums are filled by mids. We currently have Lloyd, Campbell and McInerney playing mids who can go back. Not much to do here.
The rucks.
We have Grundy, Mclean. Backup Ladhams who is capable plus stretch and Green developing. Not much to do here.
The mids.
We have ample. Probably too many outside than inside playing in the best 23 in the GF. We had Adams and Sheldrick sitting on the pine. They could potentially make a difference to getting the ball next year. There are mids in the forwards and backs like JJ, Mills, parker, Heeney etc because there is no where else to put them. Unbalances the side. We have enough mids, I just think how we structure the side with them could be one of the problems. I wanted Adams in the GF side.
The forwards.
We have staunchly stuck with 3 talls. We have a great small in Papley. We have a very good medium in Haywood. But the rest is mids like Parker and JJ etc. I would like another small gun and possibly in some games not 3 talls. We don't seem to be effective in the F50. I would like to see Campbell more in the F50.

Like you said. Moving some magnets around. I think we can be too stuck with 3 talls. But the options are limited because our depth in the forwards is very skinny.

Anyway. That is the end of my rant.

Rant is strong. Post is great.

 

[Caj]

What makes everyone think we’re going to move away from the 3 tall set up? It’s glaringly obvious that we should, but I’m not convinced Horse will…plus we extended all 3 of them, which suggests we see them all as coexisting in our best 22, no?

You are spot on, it wouldn’t surprise to see that Longmire has learned nothing from this year

He’s not very smart and has shown himself to be a slow learner

 

[Caj]

So your not only breaking up the best ruck duo in the comp but moving the best intercepting half back to the half forward. There is dumb and then there is this

Best ruck duo?

Take your red and white glasses off

 

[Superstar swan]

McLean is just too slow to be a kpd. Has the mobility of the qe2

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

This is what I mean.

Don't just say our stocks are extremely vulnerable. If you say that then offer a solution.
Bearing in mind we are probably salary cap restrained. Bearing in mind few players want to move to Sydney. Bearing in mind we want the best players.

What do you suggest to improve the ruck and defence?

Ive been critical going way back the way we have handled our ruck stocks and gifting opposition AA rucks for nothing and neglecting drafting/trading in a KPD.

I wont pretend i have the answers but it still doesnt negate the weakness we have in those positions.

 

[Punts]

Ive been critical going way back the way we have handled our ruck stocks and gifting opposition AA rucks for nothing and neglecting drafting/trading in a KPD.

I wont pretend i have the answers but it still doesnt negate the weakness we have in those positions.

We have tried

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

You are spot on, it wouldn’t surprise to see that Longmire has learned nothing from this year

He’s not very smart and has shown himself to be a slow learner

The learnings come with the comfort of winning so many games so in Longmire view it would be viewed a huge success.

What would signify a change? remember the club mantra is 1 game does not define us.

 

[Kbroome]

Best ruck duo?

Take your red and white glasses off

Yes the best ruck duo in the comp.

 

[TheGoatBaron]

The learnings come with the comfort of winning so many games so in Longmire view it would be viewed a huge success.

What would signify a change? remember the club mantra is 1 game does not define us.

New signature.

 

[Andyjh]

What worries me is that this year we relied heavily on heeney being the perfect footballer. It’s unlikely he can replicate that form again next year.

We also scraped by a lot of games in 20 minute bursts. Not very many we blew a team off the park for 4 quarters.

I understand we have our hands tied in regards to trades , especially with the Warner circus. But everyone else around us is improving their list, you stand still in this league you get blown away

I think Heeney will improve further. Full of confidence and has this years experience to build on. Add Millsy into the Midfield with him and WOW we might even have 4 AA mids next year.

 

[Bloods86]

Ive been critical going way back the way we have handled our ruck stocks and gifting opposition AA rucks for nothing and neglecting drafting/trading in a KPD.

I wont pretend i have the answers but it still doesnt negate the weakness we have in those positions.

I've certainly been critical of our neglect in drafting KPPs at certain points.

Not sure I can criticise the gifting of rucks though.

Nankervis was in the context of having Tippett, Sinclair and Naismith (who was the better ruck at the time), when we had Franklin, Reid etc as key forwards too. Obviously disaster struck with Naismith in future seasons, and Tippett appeared much more durable at the time. But without hindsight, I don't think I'd blame the club for that one. Maibaum (a KPD) was a decent pick (that we got for Nank), but unfortunately had little luck with injury.

Cameron didn't show a lot and was himself injured when others were out of the team (where he had opportunity to show what he could do), then he wanted to leave. We used the pick in the Jones trade to get the pick we then used for E Taylor (unfortunately), but if we'd not had that pick, then maybe we don't pick up Warner a few picks later. Another pick we got from that trade was either used for Hickey or matching Gulden.

 

[Adnico26Parker]

Unless things have changed, I still think we could rookie list Joe Harrison

Haven't heard anything since he played those 2 late VFL games, but accounted pretty well for himself