Player Watch #1: Nick Vlastuin

[Meteoric Rise]

I'll give you 10 good reasons.

1. In need of picks for list generation.
2. Already have 10 to 12 senior core players so trading won't effect the group.
3. List balance. We have sufficient half backs and intercept defenders. But are in need of midfielders and forwards.
4. He will command decent picks in return.
5. He has a home in the Geelong area.
6. Geelong love mature recruits.
7. He turns 30 next year. Only 2 to 3 years left or less. Nailing 1 of the two picks would get us a player for the next 10 years. We would be ahead.
8. Form is hot and cold.
9. Need to get games into more kids.
10. Because I said so.

You could have left out the first 9 reasons and the proposal would have the same credibility.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Averages more marks 7 to 5.7
Averages more disposals 21.1 to 16.8

You don't become a better player than Vlastuin because you stand alone in the back pocket and your team kicks it backwards to you all the time. Unless you can turn that into more scores. Stewart doesn't.

Since Stewart entered the AFL Vlastuin averages more intercepts, more ground balls gets, more contested possessions, more score involvements, more tackles and as many contested marks.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

The playing part

Wrong.

And if it was right, exactly why would CD then rate Vlastuin higher on average?

 

[Serenity_Now]

Averages more marks 7 to 5.7
Averages more disposals 21.1 to 16.8

Pretty irrelevant stats, difference in the style of play between our two teams would be the major contributor to that. Stewart gets a few more uncontested possessions and marks because how Geelong play. They’re almost identical in previous seasons on the defensive stuff they’re in the team for with one or the other just slightly up on certain stats.

It’s criminal that Vlastuin has not been AA once in his career, and I don’t mean that he should’ve been taking Stewart’s spot in the team. But it seems that once someone else has a season out of the box where they’re putting up similar intercept numbers to Vlastuin, that person always seems to get the nod.

 

[tiger_tough]

I bet professionally, these days on cricket only.

If I bet by eye alone I can probably make some profit if I am at my best. If I bet by stats alone I will likely also make some profit, though this would be less reliant on how sharp I was. If I combine the 2 methods I am confident of making a solid profit consistently.

And you have to remember cricket is a sport where the eye can capture a far greater proportion of the action than it can in football.

If it comes to your ball watching eyes or mine on one hand versus CD with a team of people watching every player in every passage of play on the other hand, and them keeping count of everything, and you and I forgetting most of what we see....our so called "eye test" has no chance to outmatch CD's ratings.

 

[Morro]

Wrong.

And if it was right, exactly why would CD then rate Vlastuin higher on average?

Haha yeah you must be right even though vlas hasn’t been recognized by the football world in the Same light.

There are so many formulas used by so many outlets nowadays and they’re flawed.

Do you notice not a single award in football is granted based on this shit you’re spruiking? Do you wonder why?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Haha yeah you must be right even though vlas hasn’t been recognized by the football world in the Same light.

There are so many formulas used by so many outlets nowadays and they’re flawed.

Do you notice not a single award in football is granted based on this s**t you’re spruiking? Do you wonder why?

What shit? I am using the most credible ratings system available as my reference point here.

And yes I do wonder why players who aren't as good objectively often get popular recognition above their actual performance and players with greater objective performance get less popular recognition. That is why I posted to initiate the discussion, obviously.

 

[Morro]

What s**t? I am using the most credible ratings system available as my reference point here.

And yes I do wonder why players who aren't as good objectively often get popular recognition above their actual performance and players with greater objective performance get less popular recognition. That is why I posted to initiate the discussion, obviously.

Well wonder no more my man.

The reason is ……….. it’s completely flawed. It cannot take into account anything but numbers and this great game of footy ain’t a casino.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

We’ll wonder no more my man.

The reason is ……….. it’s completely flawed. It cannot take into account anything but numbers and this great game of footy ain’t a casino.

That's like saying the way the winner of a match is flawed because the scoreboard can't take into account anything but numbers.

In both cases the numbers represent certainly valuable actions.

Unsophisticated response by you.

 

[Morro]

That's like saying the way the winner of a match is flawed because the scoreboard can't take into account anything but numbers.

In both cases the numbers represent certainly valuable actions.

Unsophisticated response by you.

Haha the only measure of a winner at the end of the game is the scoreboard.

The measure of humans ability to play the game has many variables.

I get you’re a numbers man, but you’re wrong and that’s ok

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Haha the only measure of a winner at the end of the game is the scoreboard.

The measure of humans ability to play the game has many variables.

I get you’re a numbers man, but you’re wrong and that’s ok

Aint that a fact. We count up every score in a game without missing any and the one who has the most score at the end of the game wins. Reliable, objective, clear.

Is that more like:

A) tiger_tough 's "eye test"

B) beema limapep 's "because I said so"

C) Kane Corne's "best player in the game right now" "not in the top 150 players" and "Josh Daicos AA"

D) Your own "the playing part."

Or.......

E) Champion Data's method of counting all the actions of each player in each game and adding that up at the end of each game, season, career?

I wonder.

 

[Ctl]

I'd be willing to trade Vlastuin for a pick around 10 maybe a team such as the Swans, Dogs, Geelong. I think with Gibcus/Brown/Tresize we have enough to cover Vlastuin if we were to trade him. But Vlastuin like Lynch or basically any other player of value would probably want to stay at Richmond

 

[Morro]

Aint that a fact. We count up every score in a game without missing any and the one who has the most score at the end of the game wins. Reliable, objective, clear.

Is that more like:

A) tiger_tough 's "eye test"

B) beema limapep 's "because I said so"

C) Kane Corne's "best player in the game right now" "not in the top 150 players" and "Josh Daicos AA"

D) Your own "the playing part."

Or.......

E) Champion Data's method of counting all the actions of each player in each game and adding that up at the end of each game, season, career?

I wonder.

**** it’s gonna be a long long off season with this shit

 

[Meteoric Rise]

* it’s gonna be a long long off season with this s**t

You are leading the Tom Stewart cheer squad that is in a mess here. You are not going to fix the hole you guys are in by dismissive undetailed responses like this.

We get it. You think Stewart is better than Vlastuin because it is received wisdom. But it is false wisdom.

 

[beema limapep]

You could have left out the first 9 reasons and the proposal would have the same credibility.

You upset by one tenth of my post? Do you need a hug or maybe post a second time about it

 

[beema limapep]

Aint that a fact. We count up every score in a game without missing any and the one who has the most score at the end of the game wins. Reliable, objective, clear.

Is that more like:

A) tiger_tough 's "eye test"

B) beema limapep 's "because I said so"

C) Kane Corne's "best player in the game right now" "not in the top 150 players" and "Josh Daicos AA"

D) Your own "the playing part."

Or.......

E) Champion Data's method of counting all the actions of each player in each game and adding that up at the end of each game, season, career?

I wonder.

And here is the emotional second post over 1/10th of mine

Great one! Going for the holy trinity?

 

[Morro]

You are leading the Tom Stewart cheer squad that is in a mess here. You are not going to fix the hole you guys are in by dismissive undetailed responses like this.

We get it. You think Stewart is better than Vlastuin because it is received wisdom. But it is false wisdom.

Haha

 

[Bojangles17]

I'd be willing to trade Vlastuin for a pick around 10 maybe a team such as the Swans, Dogs, Geelong. I think with Gibcus/Brown/Tresize we have enough to cover Vlastuin if we were to trade him. But Vlastuin like Lynch or basically any other player of value would probably want to stay at Richmond

No one would offer that

 

[TigerImposter]

Aint that a fact. We count up every score in a game without missing any and the one who has the most score at the end of the game wins. Reliable, objective, clear.

Is that more like:

A) tiger_tough 's "eye test"

B) beema limapep 's "because I said so"

C) Kane Corne's "best player in the game right now" "not in the top 150 players" and "Josh Daicos AA"

D) Your own "the playing part."

Or.......

E) Champion Data's method of counting all the actions of each player in each game and adding that up at the end of each game, season, career?

I wonder.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

View attachment 1812922

Or I guess if accurately collated statistics tell you something you don't want to hear you can just infer that the statistics lie. That sure beats the hell out of facing up to the reality that what you believed to be correct was WRONG.

 

[wegetpumped]

Wrong.

And if it was right, exactly why would CD then rate Vlastuin higher on average?

Beacuase he scores mor egolas than Stewart! Ohh hold on gives away 2 3 goals a game the stats guy left as he wasn't doing the stats right.

 

[sante]

Or I guess if accurately collated statistics tell you something you don't want to hear you can just infer that the statistics lie. That sure beats the hell out of facing up to the reality that what you believed to be correct was WRONG.

No one wants Stewart to be better than Vlastuin. But facts are he is. There’s nothing wrong with it either. Nick is a fantastic player

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No one wants Stewart to be better than Vlastuin. But facts are he is. There’s nothing wrong with it either. Nick is a fantastic player

You mean the myth is Stewart is a better player than Vlastuin. The objective facts say Vlastuin is better.

 

[Chat Pile]

I'd have both Stewart and Vlas in a heartbeat.

 

[Morro]

You mean the myth is Stewart is a better player than Vlastuin. The objective facts say Vlastuin is better.

Yet 5 AA's to zero speaks volumes doesnt it? I mean we could argue AA selection is a farce for 1 or maybe 2, but 5??? NAH