Player Watch #13 Clayton Oliver – UNPRECEDENTED 4x B&F, 3x AA, 2x AFLCA Winner and Premiership Player (formerly)

[Scythe94]

OK, I've removed about three pages of posts.

Please do not use this thread to speculate about Oliver's private life – medical or otherwise.

Regardless of the veracity of your rumour, or what you know/have heard, if it's not public knowledge, just don't post it.

I don't want to turn this place into Demonland, but if you can't see the potential harm that this sort of rumour-spreading can cause (regardless of your intentions), then perhaps it's best if you take a bit of a break.

Thanks.

 

[markm106]

All those a disaster as well. Hogan a recent example of a player being taken on and turning things around a bit. Cousins probably the closest to what Oliver is going through. Was he a rookie contract at Tigers? Nowhere near the risk of 7 years, 7 mil

Just looked Cousins up. Was a pre season draft pick. And probably on a small wage. Like when we got Bennell. The risk was low and it was easy enough to delist him if things went bad.

 

[BEEG]

Yeah I mean it’s been about 5 years since the last of those. Some big errors though no doubt clubs have learnt from. None of those guys on 7 by 7 million though.
I still very much doubt anyone gives us a first for Clarry last year.

Yeah we gave 2 first for Beams and he wasn't in the age or class of Oliver.

4 year decent size deal.

Clubs will do anything to win, biggest flaw with some clubs is they believe a winning culture will fix anything.

I have no doubt Adelaide sell the farm for Oliver if Dees and Oliver agree, you guys shut it down pretty quickly.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Pretty sure Adelaide had multiple board members duped by the stupidly obvious Firepower scam. Going to recreationally guess Goody was also into it because, lol.

We got May for a cooked at the time Hogan and he wasn't near Oliver.

 

[markm106]

Yeah we gave 2 first for Beams and he wasn't in the age or class of Oliver.

4 year decent size deal.

Clubs will do anything to win, biggest flaw with some clubs is they believe a winning culture will fix anything.

I have no doubt Adelaide sell the farm for Oliver if Dees and Oliver agree, you guys shut it down pretty quickly.

Beams back to Collingwood was a big stuff up. But I still have serious doubts anyone was touching Oliver on that contract.

 

[dazzledavey36]

Did any of these guys have a mil a year contract for 7 years that go along with the drugs/gambling/ADHD/Mental Health issues? From what I'm hearing, the mental health concerns are greater than any of the other issues. Massive concerns. No club is taking that risk with a 7 year contract on a Mil per season. Of course there was interest when it popped up,but it went away pretty quickly once things started to become pubpublicteally?

Really?

Beams was one of the biggest drug junkies going around. It's well known that Eddie had to bail him out of his gambling and drug debts when he came back to the pies.

Fev issues were well known with alcohol and gambling issues that cost him his marriage and eventually AFL contract torn up.

Yarran was already addicted to ice by the time he arrived at Richmond. This all came out when he was jailed up in WA.

All these guys still had sizeable contracts and opposition clubs were still willing to pay up and recruit them over. These clubs also believed they were right in the premiership/finals window and believed by adding players of this calibre it would put them straight into premiership contention.

Both you and markm106 acting out as if clubs would not have been willing negotiate between the dees around who can pay what in terms of salary similiar to the Brodie Grundy situation. Both clubs would have come up with some sort of agreement in what suits both parties from a payment perspective.

You're also both not taking into consideration that CBA that's coming into the play within the next 2 plus years. With that in play, that would have given clubs further leniency in their salary cap.

 

[dazzledavey36]

Yeah we gave 2 first for Beams and he wasn't in the age or class of Oliver.

4 year decent size deal.

Clubs will do anything to win, biggest flaw with some clubs is they believe a winning culture will fix anything.

I have no doubt Adelaide sell the farm for Oliver if Dees and Oliver agree, you guys shut it down pretty quickly.

Absolutely they would have and were certainly ready to do so. Adelaide had clearly done their due diligence through Darren Burgess and were willing to take him on by all reports.

Those that are thinking otherwise are delusional.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Absolutely they would have and were certainly ready to do so. Adelaide had clearly done their due diligence through Darren Burgess and were willing to take him on by all reports.

Those that are thinking otherwise are delusional.

Due diligence?? Clearly they didn't if they were offering what was reported. And again, no player with his issues picked up by a club was ever on a Mil a year for 7 years.

 

[markm106]

Absolutely they would have and were certainly ready to do so. Adelaide had clearly done their due diligence through Darren Burgess and were willing to take him on by all reports.

Those that are thinking otherwise are delusional.

So Burgess was across the Oliver issues. And gave him the thumbs up. Righto.

 

[markm106]

Really?

Beams was one of the biggest drug junkies going around. It's well known that Eddie had to bail him out of his gambling and drug debts when he came back to the pies.

Fev issues were well known with alcohol and gambling issues that cost him his marriage and eventually AFL contract torn up.

Yarran was already addicted to ice by the time he arrived at Richmond. This all came out when he was jailed up in WA.

All these guys still had sizeable contracts and opposition clubs were still willing to pay up and recruit them over. These clubs also believed they were right in the premiership/finals window and believed by adding players of this calibre it would put them straight into premiership contention.

Both you and markm106 acting out as if clubs would not have been willing negotiate between the dees around who can pay what in terms of salary similiar to the Brodie Grundy situation. Both clubs would have come up with some sort of agreement in what suits both parties from a payment perspective.

You're also both not taking into consideration that CBA that's coming into the play within the next 2 plus years. With that in play, that would have given clubs further leniency in their salary cap.

You bring up sold citizen Grundy. And think Oliver with all his alleged issues would get a deal with 7 years for the crows. What would we be paying? Crows would be 700k out of pocket for 7 years. Unless you’re suggesting Oliver would redo a shorter contract to move. But that’s doubtful.

 

[dazzledavey36]

So Burgess was across the Oliver issues. And gave him the thumbs up. Righto.

And yet they still showed a strong interest Burgess was well across his issues around the time he signed his 7 year deal.. so yes he was across this. Pert even admitted that these issues were well known even around the time he signed his 7 year deal in 2021. So yep, Burgess was absolutely across it.

Due diligence?? Clearly they didn't if they were offering what was reported. And again, no player with his issues picked up by a club was ever on a Mil a year for 7 years.

Again.. with the CBA coming into it and clubs now days are more then willing to share portions of salary more then ever in history of the game then yes, it's more doable now days then ever before.

 

[Crusty Demon]

And yet they still showed a strong interest Burgess was well across his issues around the time he signed his 7 year deal.. so yes he was across this. Pert even admitted that these issues were well known even around the time he signed his 7 year deal in 2021. So yep, Burgess was absolutely across it.

Again.. with the CBA coming into it and clubs now days are more then willing to share portions of salary more then ever in history of the game then yes, it's more doable now days then ever before.

We'll never know anyway.

I just cannot believe a team who did their due diligence on Oliver, would offer what was reported and take on that contract regardless of any future agreements. That's a massive chunk of change and draft capital on a player who has(rumoured) to be addicted to drugs, addicted to gambling, owes people lots of $$, has issues with professionalism, is a general menace around town, is struggling to deal with AD/HD, attempted suicide, mental health issues, spiralling making dumb decisions like tattooing own feet etc etc. All rumoured,but seemingly more and more believable.

Maybe not the best thing for us, but most agree the best place for him is with us. At least for 12 months. If he's still off the rails, then a different environment is worth a shot, however doubtful in resolving his problems.

 

[Topkent]

If I see due diligence again I'll ****ing spew

No one's taken on a 7 year deal like that before because they basically didn't exist until recently and if you think another club wouldn't take on Oliver you've got rocks in your head.
We bloody well kept him so either we are the only club stupid enough to think he could still play or another club would have had a dip.

Signing a healthy Oliver to 7 years was always a ****ing dumb deal. Almost glad it's biting us this hard.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I think the biggest issue is why did we sign him up for such a long deal when we knew this kind of stuff has been happening for years?

Because he was one of the best players in the comp. You're kidding yourself if you don't think 17 other clubs would've done the same. He seems to have gone off the rails since splitting up with his partner, indint think his recent behaviour is the same as the seven years prior.

Hopefully he sets himself straight and gets back to being a key cog in our next flag.

 

[Topkent]

Because he was one of the best players in the comp. You're kidding yourself if you don't think 17 other clubs would've done the same. He seems to have gone off the rails since splitting up with his partner, indint think his recent behaviour is the same as the seven years prior.

Hopefully he sets himself straight and gets back to being a key cog in our next flag.

17 other clubs don't have multiple players on 5+ year deals that were born in the state they are based.

Clayton Oliver would never have left us if we gave him 3 or 4 years. His management leaned us over a table and took advantage of our stupidity and no wonder why they did looking at him now

 

[Demonic Ascent]

I like the idea of moving a Bowey or McVee up the field. Some of their skill is much needed in the middle.

Discussion for another thread but I was desperate for one of Bowey, McVee or Salem to move further up the ground early last year. We are crying out for one of them across half forward.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

17 other clubs don't have multiple players on 5+ year deals that were born in the state they are based.

Clayton Oliver would never have left us if we gave him 3 or 4 years. His management leaned us over a table and took advantage of our stupidity and no wonder why they did looking at him now

That's garbage, it is clearly a list strategy to have our top 10 or so players tied up long term so we have greater certainty with our forward planning/list management. I didn't hear many complaing when we gave the new contracts to Petracca and Oliver with a flag sandwiched in between.

 

[Topkent]

That's garbage, it is clearly a list strategy to have our top 10 or so players tied up long term so we have greater certainty with our forward planning/list management. I didn't hear many complaing when we gave the new contracts to Petracca and Oliver with a flag sandwiched in between.

Plenty of people said Oliver and Brayshaws deal were stupid. Just cause it's a strategy doesn't make it a good one, the Brown and Tmac long term deals are looking so good right now hey?

Like I said, name any other club who has multiple players from their own state tied up to extreme contracts? It was stupid then and looks even dumber now with Gus injury and Oliver going off the rails especially because we admitted to knowing these problems already existed.

Where would Oliver go? Lol
North for 7 years? Let him ****ing go. We would have got a draft bounty. He never would have left

 

[Topkent]

That's garbage, it is clearly a list strategy to have our top 10 or so players tied up long term so we have greater certainty with our forward planning/list management. I didn't hear many complaing when we gave the new contracts to Petracca and Oliver with a flag sandwiched in between.

There's me not being a fan in 2022

 

[Lord Nev]

Like I said, name any other club who has multiple players from their own state tied up to extreme contracts?

From a really quick look, and fitting your 'own state' logic for whatever reason you've decided to add that....

Charlie Curnow - 2029
Hary McKay - 2030
Marc Pittonet - 2027

Luke Jackson - 2029
Jye Amiss - 2029

Darcy Moore - 2028
Josh Daicos - 2030
Nick Daicos - 2029
Jordan De Goey - 2027

Ben McKay - 2029
Darcy Parish - 2028
Zach Merrett - 2027

Jy Simpkin - 2029
Nick Larkey - 2029

Connor Rozee - 2032
JHF - 2028

Callum Mills - 2029
Isaac Henry - 2028
Nick Blakey - 2031

Nice try though.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Discussion for another thread but I was desperate for one of Bowey, McVee or Salem to move further up the ground early last year. We are crying out for one of them across half forward.

Goodwin hasn't got an experimental bone in his body. Rinse and repeat and hope we pull off another 2021.

Salem shouldn't even be best 22 let alone moved up the ground. McVee was great in defence, and is probably too small for a mid role, but no reason why Riv can't become a midfield gun for us. Riv and Sparrow should be having bulk minutes at stoppages now, but neither really go in there. With Oliver now looking unlikely to be a part of the setup for awhile, it's time Goody grew a pair and threw some magnets around the centre and forward group. Koz should be basing his game on Shai Bolton. Koz can finish in front of goal unlike Bolton. No reason why he can't run around that centre pitch and setup goals with his skill and run forward and be dangerous. Hopefully McAdam coming in means we can play Koz upfield a bit more. I don't mind the Bowey move up forward too. At least to try it out. Move Brayshaw back and put Sparrow in the guts and play Bowey front of centre.

I don't know. Try something Goody or another year of thereabouts but not good enough will happen.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Because he was one of the best players in the comp. You're kidding yourself if you don't think 17 other clubs would've done the same. He seems to have gone off the rails since splitting up with his partner, indint think his recent behaviour is the same as the seven years prior.

Hopefully he sets himself straight and gets back to being a key cog in our next flag.

It appears we knew about the ADHD issues and a few other things, but it certainly does look like he's spiralled since the contract extension. I'd like to think that there would be zero chance any club does that 7 year deal knowing everything that's gone down. And I'd be gobsmacked if another club took that on. Burgess would have been consulted on the fitness aspect of Oliver. I'd be shocked if he would give the green light knowing what we all know now.

 

[Lord Nev]

It appears we knew about the ADHD issues and a few other things, but it certainly does look like he's spiralled since the contract extension. I'd like to think that there would be zero chance any club does that 7 year deal knowing everything that's gone down. And I'd be gobsmacked if another club took that on. Burgess would have been consulted on the fitness aspect of Oliver. I'd be shocked if he would give the green light knowing what we all know now.

Burgess left end of 2021, Oliver apparently split with his missus end of 2022 and not long after that's when he started getting pretty loose. Highly doubt Burgess was across the growing issues during 2023.

 

[dazzledavey36]

Goodwin hasn't got an experimental bone in his body. Rinse and repeat and hope we pull off another 2021.

Salem shouldn't even be best 22 let alone moved up the ground. McVee was great in defence, and is probably too small for a mid role, but no reason why Riv can't become a midfield gun for us. Riv and Sparrow should be having bulk minutes at stoppages now, but neither really go in there. With Oliver now looking unlikely to be a part of the setup for awhile, it's time Goody grew a pair and threw some magnets around the centre and forward group. Koz should be basing his game on Shai Bolton. Koz can finish in front of goal unlike Bolton. No reason why he can't run around that centre pitch and setup goals with his skill and run forward and be dangerous. Hopefully McAdam coming in means we can play Koz upfield a bit more. I don't mind the Bowey move up forward too. At least to try it out. Move Brayshaw back and put Sparrow in the guts and play Bowey front of centre.

I don't know. Try something Goody or another year of thereabouts but not good enough will happen.

This time last year we heard all about the Kozzie Pickett midfield experiment that was going to change the dynamic of our midfield for season 2023.
Bar round 1 where he probably played his best game for the year playing more midfield then forward, we barely saw him again in there after his suspension.

 

[Crusty Demon]

This time last year we heard all about the Kozzie Pickett midfield experiment that was going to change the dynamic of our midfield for season 2023.
Bar round 1 where he probably played his best game for the year playing more midfield then forward, we barely saw him again in there after his suspension.

Why on earth would we want a quick, skilful, dynamic midfielder

 

[Bluelegs]

This time last year we heard all about the Kozzie Pickett midfield experiment that was going to change the dynamic of our midfield for season 2023.
Bar round 1 where he probably played his best game for the year playing more midfield then forward, we barely saw him again in there after his suspension.

The moves seem so obvious from the outside. Kozzie rotates with Petracca for midfield/forward time. Sparrow, Gus and Viney can share the gruntwork and Rivers can float on the outside as a receiver. Collingwood's success has shown the game is moving away from having 4 crash and bash blokes putting their head over the footy at every contest and keeping everything conjested. You need to be more creative now.