Player Watch #13 Clayton Oliver – UNPRECEDENTED 4x B&F, 3x AA, 2x AFLCA Winner and Premiership Player (formerly)

[Scythe94]

OK, I've removed about three pages of posts.

Please do not use this thread to speculate about Oliver's private life – medical or otherwise.

Regardless of the veracity of your rumour, or what you know/have heard, if it's not public knowledge, just don't post it.

I don't want to turn this place into Demonland, but if you can't see the potential harm that this sort of rumour-spreading can cause (regardless of your intentions), then perhaps it's best if you take a bit of a break.

Thanks.

 

[Topkent]

Maybe you just need to re-asses your expectations mate?

He has to get fitter but there were plenty who showed less intent who had full pre-seasons.

I'd rather have him ready to go in 3 weeks than playing 4 games in the VFL and needing another 3 to get ready at AFL level.

I mean sure, let's blow the early part of the season just to make sure Oliver's right.

Stuff earning your way back into the side. Let's just pick the best 22 regardless of anything

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I mean sure, let's blow the early part of the season just to make sure Oliver's right.

Stuff earning your way back into the side. Let's just pick the best 22 regardless of anything

Fair enough mate, I didn't see Oliver as costing us the game.

I thought that our lack of competitive effort up forward and the Swans being cleaner around the ball was a bigger impact.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Maybe you just need to re-asses your expectations mate?

He has to get fitter but there were plenty who showed less intent who had full pre-seasons.

I'd rather have him ready to go in 3 weeks than playing 4 games in the VFL and needing another 3 to get ready at AFL level.

Forget reassessing his expectations, he needs to reassess his life. Leave my favourite player Clayton Oliver alone Topkent

 

[Topkent]

Fair enough mate, I didn't see Oliver as costing us the game.

I thought that our lack of competitive effort up forward and the Swans being cleaner around the ball was a bigger impact.

Cleaner around the ball because one of our mids went to ground all the time and wasn't fit enough to spread, an the other was a fumbly mess.

Oliver wasn't the reason, but he was never gonna be the reason we won in that state either. So what's the point of banging on about culture and change and then picking him when he isn't ready? I just think it it's another one of the problems at our club that hasn't changed and is why we're here.

 

[Topkent]

Forget reassessing his expectations, he needs to reassess his life. Leave my favourite player Clayton Oliver alone Topkent

 

[danster168]

The thing is, if Windsor had 30 touches, 6 clearances and 6 inside 50's @70% efficiency we'd all be frothing and saying 'we've found one', 'give him the rising star now!' etc. Conversely if Oliver had 13 touches at 62% efficiency we'd be calling for him to be dropped. The double standards is crazy. And people put Windsor in the votes? No idea what game people were watching but we need to rate peoples games based on what they produce and not factor in expected performance.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

The thing is, if Windsor had 30 touches, 6 clearances and 6 inside 50's @70% efficiency we'd all be frothing and saying 'we've found one', 'give him the rising star now!' etc. Conversely if Oliver had 13 touches at 62% efficiency we'd be calling for him to be dropped. The double standards is crazy. And people put Windsor in the votes? No idea what game people were watching but we need to rate peoples games based on what they produce and not factor in expected performance.

Put Windsor in a "juicy" inside mid role and Oliver on the wing. Your comparison is so daft.

 

[Topkent]

The thing is, if Windsor had 30 touches, 6 clearances and 6 inside 50's @70% efficiency we'd all be frothing and saying 'we've found one', 'give him the rising star now!' etc. Conversely if Oliver had 13 touches at 62% efficiency we'd be calling for him to be dropped. The double standards is crazy. And people put Windsor in the votes? No idea what game people were watching but we need to rate peoples games based on what they produce and not factor in expected performance.

This is another incredibly dumb and pointless comparison that has not a single word of revelance to anything. Congrats on reaching a low

 

[PerfectFooty]

For a start anyone on debut has low expectations from me. I don't expect people to come out and be super stars in their first AFL game, but if they go really well then get a rising star nom first up. Then of course I'm going to be excited because they have succeeded my expectations from a first gamer

Now if you're an award winning midfielder with 8 years in the system, the bar for my expectations has been raised. If you are selected into the senior team then there is a standard both you and the coaches think that you're at. If you're under it than as a supporter I'm allowed to be disappointed. That doesn't just go for Oliver. I was very shitty when we rushed Petty back against Geelong last year. But I also know not to compare that to this as they're players that play TWO DIFFERENT POSITIONS

 

[danster168]

For a start anyone on debut has low expectations from me. I don't expect people to come out and be super stars in their first AFL game, but if they go really well then get a rising star nom first up. Then of course I'm going to be excited because they have succeeded my expectations from a first gamer

Now if you're an award winning midfielder with 8 years in the system, the bar for my expectations has been raised. If you are selected into the senior team then there is a standard both you and the coaches think that you're at. If you're under it than as a supporter I'm allowed to be disappointed. That doesn't just go for Oliver. I was very shitty when we rushed Petty back against Geelong last year. But I also know not to compare that to this as they're players that play TWO DIFFERENT POSITIONS

yeah of course. I agree with everything you said but let's not pretend that Windsor's game was better than Oliver's . that's crazy talk. But was it better given his age ans experience? yes, probably.

 

[Topkent]

For a start anyone on debut has low expectations from me. I don't expect people to come out and be super stars in their first AFL game, but if they go really well then get a rising star nom first up. Then of course I'm going to be excited because they have succeeded my expectations from a first gamer

Now if you're an award winning midfielder with 8 years in the system, the bar for my expectations has been raised. If you are selected into the senior team then there is a standard both you and the coaches think that you're at. If you're under it than as a supporter I'm allowed to be disappointed. That doesn't just go for Oliver. I was very shitty when we rushed Petty back against Geelong last year. But I also know not to compare that to this as they're players that play TWO DIFFERENT POSITIONS

Salem, Lever, Gawn, Viney etc. we've don't it over multiple years it's so frustrating

 

[Bluelegs]

I can't believe it has to be explained why people have different standards for an 18 year old first gamer and literally our highest paid player who plays a completely different position.

 

[PerfectFooty]

yeah of course. I agree with everything you said but let's not pretend that Windsor's game was better than Oliver's . that's crazy talk. But was it better given his age ans experience? yes, probably.

I don't think anyone said he was better than Oliver, just that it was reasonable for a debut? And they're not comparable

Oliver then by his standard was down, compared to normal output

 

[danster168]

I don't think anyone said he was better than Oliver, just that it was reasonable for a debut? And they're not comparable

Oliver then by his standard was down, compared to normal output

Yeah? people had him in the votes for our best players. Each to their own I guess

 

[PerfectFooty]

Yeah? people had him in the votes for our best players. Each to their own I guess

People are free to give the votes however they please. They're really supposed to be a non judgement just for fun bigfooty voting system. If i wanted too i could give Lever 12 because i liked one mark he took despite him being trash for the whole game. Windsor was reasonable on debut, not flashy but also not awful. People can simply choose to give him votes because it's first game if they feel like it.

I haven't seen any talk in the actual review thread on Windsor's game. Again i can't stress the phrase "12 votes any way you want" literally means people can vote for what they want. They're an okay form guide but don't read them so seriously

 

[Headless]

I genuinely thought Windsor had a more impactful game.

 

[Bluelegs]

I genuinely thought Windsor had a more impactful game.

12 votes - Caleb Windsor

 

[Daemon]

People are free to give the votes however they please. They're really supposed to be a non judgement just for fun bigfooty voting system. If i wanted too i could give Lever 12 because i liked one mark he took despite him being trash for the whole game. Windsor was reasonable on debut, not flashy but also not awful. People can simply choose to give him votes because it's first game if they feel like it.

I haven't seen any talk in the actual review thread on Windsor's game. Again i can't stress the phrase "12 votes any way you want" literally means people can vote for what they want. They're an okay form guide but don't read them so seriously

Exactly.
Just make sure you do 12 votes. Not 11. Not 13. And not 6. 12 shall be the number of votes given.

 

[Headless]

Exactly.
Just make sure you do 12 votes. Not 11. Not 13. And not 6. 12 shall be the number of votes given.

This poster gets it.

 

[Demon 16]

Fair enough mate, I didn't see Oliver as costing us the game.

I thought that our lack of competitive effort up forward and the Swans being cleaner around the ball was a bigger impact.

I can’t understand why a few posters are suggesting he was a liability.

There was nobody available that could have done anywhere near what Oliver did for us this week.

 

[Topkent]

I can’t understand why a few posters are suggesting he was a liability.

There was nobody available that could have done anywhere near what Oliver did for us this week.

That's an insane thing to say. There might not be anyone on our list who can play Oliver's best game, but Luke Dunstan could have got 30 junk disposals jogging around if he was given 70% of the CBAs and played only on ball.

 

[Demon 16]

That's an insane thing to say. There might not be anyone on our list who can play Oliver's best game, but Luke Dunstan could have got 30 junk disposals jogging around if he was given 70% of the CBAs and played only on ball.

Dunstan is retired.

 

[Topkent]

Dunstan is retired.

Could have kept playing if meaningless disposals were the benchmark for praise now

 

[danster168]

I can’t understand why a few posters are suggesting he was a liability.

There was nobody available that could have done anywhere near what Oliver did for us this week.

Common sense. Like I mentioned, if Windsor had 30 touches, 6 clearances and 6 inside 50's at 70% efficiency they'd be absolutely frothing over it.

 

[Lord Nev]

Just like to point out that Clarry went at 70% disposal efficiency (higher than noted 'skillful' players Trac, Laurie, Rivers, Salem, Gawn, Windsor and Langdon), 417 metres gained, 6 clearances, 5 score involvements and a goal assist. He definitely wasn't one of our best, but that's more than just a run around and get possessions (lol) kind of game.