1982 Premiers vs 2012 Also Rans

[blaze036]

Okay. Don't really have the time to keep going over the same things. As I just noted, I have considered this in my earlier post and noted how in the context of my initial comment, it doesn't have the relevance you think it does. Sure they would have worse skinfolds, but they weren't exactly tubbies with 3 extra kilos of fat either. Well, not all of them anyway. I'm not going to depart from the context of my comment though to get into a circular argument.

You need to be told the same thing because you don't seem to be getting it.

 

[Tragic sainter]

Okay. Don't really have the time to keep going over the same things. As I just noted, I have considered this in my earlier post and noted how in the context of my initial comment, it doesn't have the relevance you think it does. Sure they would have worse skinfolds, but they weren't exactly tubbies with 3 extra kilos of fat either. Well, not all of them anyway. I'm not going to depart from the context of my comment though to get into a circular argument.

But that's the thing. By today's standards they would be considered tubbies, which is the whole point of the argument. What passed as an elite athlete in the 80's is a far cry from an elite athlete in the modern game.

 

[Two Eyes]

Guys... Monkey King is right because he thinks he is. Also no force in the universe could beat Carlton '82.

It's moot in any case. As a previous poster said, Melbourne would have tanked anyway. Of course Carlton would then be discovered to have been cheating and we're right back to square one

 

[Blue Dawn]

I'm demanding that am i?

You english good no?

My, my you are in denial aren't you my boy. Both in respect to your appreciation of the talents of yesteryear's Premiership teams AND your juvenile demand that everybody acquiesce to your way of thinking.

Read it slower and hopefully it'll read alright for you this time.

Still awaiting your credentials.

 

[blaze036]

My, my you are in denial aren't you my boy. Both in respect to your appreciation of the talents of yesteryear's Premiership teams AND your juvenile demand that everybody acquiesce to your way of thinking.

Read it slower and hopefully it'll read alright for you this time.

Still awaiting your credentials.

My credentials for comparing an AFL team of the 80's to a modern team? Your REALLY asking for that?

You try to sound smart, but when you do it comes out in a blob, a blob that upon closer inspection is really hilarious to read.

Apparently i'm in denial with respect to my juvenile demand, that everybody acquiesce to my way of thinking.. how can one be in denial of that? How does that even make remote sense? That's exactly what you said.

You also said in your last post that i was DEMANDING that a modern team would beat a team from the 80's, how can one DEMAND an opinion?

Dear Mr Blue Dawn, stop acting like you are intellectually superior to everyone else and speak in your native tongue (derp carlton r good), at least that way you will make sense.

 

[Blue Dawn]

My credentials for comparing an AFL team of the 80's to a modern team? Your REALLY asking for that?

You try to sound smart, but when you do it comes out in a blob, a blob that upon closer inspection is really hilarious to read.

Apparently i'm in denial with respect to my juvenile demand, that everybody acquiesce to my way of thinking.. how can one be in denial of that? How does that even make remote sense? That's exactly what you said.

You also said in your last post that i was DEMANDING that a modern team would beat a team from the 80's, how can one DEMAND an opinion?

Dear Mr Blue Dawn, stop acting like you are intellectually superior to everyone else and speak in your native tongue (derp carlton r good), at least that way you will make sense.

Read it again - this time slowly so you can understand it. No suggestion of one 'demanding an opinion', simply the observation that you are demanding that others acquiesce to your opinion.

To give you a better chance of actually understanding, I'll repeat the point in a slightly different way...

You are being a demanding little shit, demanding that everybody agree with your read on the subject at hand. If you're still struggling with this statement then i suggest you re-read your 20-odd posts in this thread. Jumping up and down like a spoiled ****ing child, berating anyone who dare suggest that a triple Premiership team could get within 10 goals of the modern colossus that is the MFC.

To avoid embarrassing yourself in this way again in future I suggest you save http://dictionary.reference.com/ to your bookmarks for basic assistance - although this is unlikely to assist you with your syntax issues.

 

[krisholio14]

So the saints, essendon, Carlton and Richmond miss the 8 but a team from the early 80's wouldn't? Lol

How old are you? Things haven't progressed that far that a side with quality players like that Carlton team couldn't win 12 games in todays era.

**** me, just because players in those days liked to get on the piss big time after a game, and didn't have 25 people per player monitoring their every move doesn't mean they were all a bunch of slobs.

 

[El_Scorcho]

forget the early 80s. a decent team from the early 2000s would struggle to win a game in the modern uberprofessional era unless they were given plenty of time to get their fitness and skill level up to scratch.

They'd be absolutely swamped and run off their feet by half time.

 

[Fadge]

My credentials for comparing an AFL team of the 80's to a modern team? Your REALLY asking for that?

You try to sound smart, but when you do it comes out in a blob, a blob that upon closer inspection is really hilarious to read.

Apparently i'm in denial with respect to my juvenile demand, that everybody acquiesce to my way of thinking.. how can one be in denial of that? How does that even make remote sense? That's exactly what you said.

You also said in your last post that i was DEMANDING that a modern team would beat a team from the 80's, how can one DEMAND an opinion?

Dear Mr Blue Dawn, stop acting like you are intellectually superior to everyone else and speak in your native tongue (derp carlton r good), at least that way you will make sense.

I reckon you should just give up and let him go on his delusional way. After all, he does watch 6 to 7 matches a week and played a 'reasonable' level of football. Surely none of us could match those credentials, particularly those of us with an opposing view.

 

[Fadge]

How old are you? Things haven't progressed that far that a side with quality players like that Carlton team couldn't win 12 games in todays era.

**** me, just because players in those days liked to get on the piss big time after a game, and didn't have 25 people per player monitoring their every move doesn't mean they were all a bunch of slobs.

I couldn't disagree more.

forget the early 80s. a decent team from the early 2000s would struggle to win a game in the modern uberprofessional era unless they were given plenty of time to get their fitness and skill level up to scratch.

They'd be absolutely swamped and run off their feet by half time.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[FootyGeek]

I hope this thread gets bumped in 2042.

 

[Shoei]

How old are you? Things haven't progressed that far that a side with quality players like that Carlton team couldn't win 12 games in todays era.

**** me, just because players in those days liked to get on the piss big time after a game, and didn't have 25 people per player monitoring their every move doesn't mean they were all a bunch of slobs.

Nobody is saying that they are "slobs" but 30 years is a monumental gap. Look at GWS and GC...new teams built with modern trained young athletes and they can barely run games out.

Getting 12 wins? Who would they beat? Tactics have changed so much in 30 year - Zonal defences, flooding, loose players, designated taggers, switching, positional rotations, pressing etc... The team from the 80's would be lost trying to figure out what was going on!

The speed in which the modern game moves with the tactical advantages of the last 30 years would negate any "skill" advantage the 1982 team might have individually.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Not to mention that the skill level was actually significantly worse in general 30 years ago for basically the same reason that endurance will be an issue. These guys weren't professionals that trained 7 days a week.

Watch a few games old games if you can.

Guys are wide open and missing targets all over the place. These days there is much more pressure applied to the ball carrier and players are still expected to hit targets no matter what.

 

[RUNVS]

I hope this thread gets bumped in 2042.

The Swans of 2012 are going to easily beat the 2042 Richmond team

 

[FootyGeek]

I have no doubt that the 1982 premiership team would be able to beat the also rans of the 2042 AFL season which happen to be the Hunter Valley Falcons.

 

[Soul_Pie]

The 1982 team would struggle to get within 150 points to be honest, the tactics have advanced so far that Carlton would have no clue. You could apply a press to them and the ball wouldn't leave the Demons' forward line.

Has anyone recently watched a game from the late 70s/early 80s recently? While it was tough (although the toughness has been vastly overstated) and uncompromising, and often very entertaining, the quality of the football is ordinary, constantly missing targets (the handballing in particular is atrocious most of the time)the tactics virtually non existent and a whole bunch of players who couldn't run a quarter of what modern players do, are slower and and have barely an ounce of muscle on them. But we're essentially judging amateurs vs professionals here so it's a bit unfair.

 

[Shagga is all Class]

That Carlton team would probably not win the flag these days, but they'd be a final 8 team quite easily.

How?

North were the worst top 8 team and you reckon the likes of Hunter and Doull are going to stop Petrie, Hansen, Tarrant giving up 12 cm and 10-15 kg?

Seriously, Norths midfielders are babies and would still monster the Carlton mids giving up similar height and weight.

North could probably play Jack Ziebell at CHB on Maclure and still win.

Harvey, Wells would absolutely cut Carlton to ribbons.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

The Swans of 2012 are going to easily beat the 2042 Richmond team

They couldn't even beat the 2012 model




Seriously though in hindsight the OP shouldn't have mentioned just Carlton as an example. Should've mentioned maybe the 1978 Hawks, 1980 Tigers and 1984 Bombers as well. Carlton fans seem to have taken this a little personally.

 

[Debris]

forget the early 80s. a decent team from the early 2000s would struggle to win a game in the modern uberprofessional era unless they were given plenty of time to get their fitness and skill level up to scratch.

They'd be absolutely swamped and run off their feet by half time.

But at half-time they could get an IV drip, so they would be right to go for the second half.

 

[mediumsizered]

How?

North were the worst top 8 team and you reckon the likes of Hunter and Doull are going to stop Petrie, Hansen, Tarrant giving up 12 cm and 10-15 kg?

You never saw Doull play, did you? He regularly conceded height/weight to opponents, but still consistently came up trumps. What Scarlett has done for the last 10+ years is an example of what Doull was doing during his career. He is one player who would comfortably make the transition from 1982 to 2012. IMO, the best defender of the last 40 years.

 

[krisholio14]

How?

North were the worst top 8 team and you reckon the likes of Hunter and Doull are going to stop Petrie, Hansen, Tarrant giving up 12 cm and 10-15 kg?

Seriously, Norths midfielders are babies and would still monster the Carlton mids giving up similar height and weight.

North could probably play Jack Ziebell at CHB on Maclure and still win.

Harvey, Wells would absolutely cut Carlton to ribbons.

Fair call, but then it depends on how much you rate footy smarts. Hunter, Doull and Maclure were all very very smart players.

Let's just look at Doull for a minute. I don't know about his beep test scores or how much he could bench press, but what I do know is that even without the level of fitness training today, he was (and still would be) an amazingly fit athlete who could go all day, had a yard of pace, deceptively strong and knew how to use his physical gifts to their best advantage.

But he had things that cannot be taught, things that no matter how fit or strong the opposition is, you can still use them to consistently beat that kind of opposition. Aside from having genuine class, his balance, judgement and anticipation both in the air and on the ground have been unsurpassed.

So while someone like Petrie would have him covered in size and strength, Doull would still have the pace to stay with him, and enough strength, agility and judgement to beat Petrie one on one consistently, and once the ball hit the ground, it wouldn't be a contest, Doull would abuse him.

And there's the other thing. Doull also had vision, awareness and skill to punish any player he felt like running off all day long.

The problem I have with this whole debate is that it has entirely been based on the fitness of players then and now.

If we were talking about the Olympics then I'd 100% agree, but footy is a team thing, and more things come into play than just fitness. The elements of the argument that would have a bigger say as far as i'm concerned is whether this match up is occurring with 1982 rules and 2012 rules.

 

[Falchoon]

Not to mention that the skill level was actually significantly worse in general 30 years ago for basically the same reason that endurance will be an issue. These guys weren't professionals that trained 7 days a week.

Watch a few games old games if you can.

Guys are wide open and missing targets all over the place. These days there is much more pressure applied to the ball carrier and players are still expected to hit targets no matter what.

you're watching different Melbourne games to me

 

[krisholio14]

You never saw Doull play, did you? He regularly conceded height/weight to opponents, but still consistently came up trumps. What Scarlett has done for the last 10+ years is an example of what Doull was doing during his career. He is one player who would comfortably make the transition from 1982 to 2012. IMO, the best defender of the last 40 years.

Best all round defender ever to play the game. Could destroy tall, medium and small forwards with a unique mix of grace and ruthlessness.

 

[Blue Heart]

How?

North were the worst top 8 team and you reckon the likes of Hunter and Doull are going to stop Petrie, Hansen, Tarrant giving up 12 cm and 10-15 kg?

Seriously, Norths midfielders are babies and would still monster the Carlton mids giving up similar height and weight.

North could probably play Jack Ziebell at CHB on Maclure and still win.

Harvey, Wells would absolutely cut Carlton to ribbons.

Well there you go ... just when you thought that this topic of discussion had reached its lowest (or highest ) level of Big Footy absurdity or inanity, some pimply faced 15 or 16 yr. old thinks that Locky Hansen would towel up one of the greatest defenders to ever play the game !!! Just to put into perspective how good Doull was at his peak, he well and truly had Richmond champion Royce Hart's measure on many occassions, arguably one of the best CHF's to ever play the game. Or maybe Hart wouldn't get a game with North now either, as he wouldn't be able to push the 'physical power house' Hansen out of his key forward's spot.

As one poster quite correctly points, the main difference we are talking here in comparison of these two teams (or eras) is fitness, certainly not ability. For mine, Doully is the best Carlton player I have seen play in the 45 yrs. I have followed the old Darks, and arguably one of the best defenders to ever pull on a boot.

Locky Hansen ... better than Bruce Doull ... now that has made my night !!!

 

[Tragic sainter]

Well there you go ... just when you thought that this topic of discussion had reached its lowest (or highest ) level of Big Footy absurdity or inanity, some pimply faced 15 or 16 yr. old thinks that Locky Hansen would towel up one of the greatest defenders to ever play the game !!! Just to put into perspective how good Doull was at his peak, he well and truly had Richmond champion Royce Hart's measure on many occassions, arguably one of the best CHF's to ever play the game. Or maybe Hart wouldn't get a game with North now either, as he wouldn't be able to push the 'physical power house' Hansen out of his key forward's spot.

As one poster quite correctly points, the main difference we are talking here in comparison of these two teams (or eras) is fitness, certainly not ability. For mine, Doully is the best Carlton player I have seen play in the 45 yrs. I have followed the old Darks, and arguably one of the best defenders to ever pull on a boot.

Locky Hansen ... better than Bruce Doull ... now that has made my night !!!

Doull wouldn't take Hansen though. He'd take Petrie, would cartons 1982 second and third tall defenders able to beat tarant and Hansen?