List Mgmt. 2010 delistings and draft picks

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Does anyone think that there will be any other rookie elevations aside from Pods? Maybe a Ben Johnson or a Weston/Stringer? We seem to have accepted some otherwise worthless draft picks.

Nah, because we don't have the list spots.

However, with all the retirements we will have at the end of next year (I can forsee double digit list changes) we are every chance to elevate 3-4 rookies at the end of next year, so it is a big year for them, and hopefully that prospect motivates them.
 
Can someone clarify some of these questions regarding our current rookies?

Ben Johnson's 24 next year. Is he too old to stay on the rookie list? If not, definately keep him on. Averaging 2 goals a game in the twos as a key forward is a decent return. Good insurance.

Adam Varcoe's already been on the rookie list for two years. Do we now have to delist or upgrade? I think him and Motlop will form a great crumbing duo in the forward line in the future. Can we delist and then re-rookie?

As for the others, it seems like we'll delist Ediriwickrama and Allwright and hang on to Weston and Stringer. And we all know who Pods is.

You can keep rookies for a 3rd year (expansion rules) so long as they agree, which I assume Adam will.

Ben Johnson can stay also...if he keeps up his VFL form a senior game may come.

My guess is Ranga and Allwright gone, Pods promoted, Stringer, Weston Johnson and Varcoe retained, and 3 new rookies drafted.
 
I think the club is waiting for Rooke's medical report. If Rooke can play on then i think the club may say to Dasher that his time is up. If Rooke is gone then they may let Dasher stay. Can't see both staying. Also Corey, Ling, Ottens, Scarlett etc WILL NOT retire this year.

If we lose West we dig ourselves in a massive hole. Next year will most likely be Ottens' last and if we have no West we're almost forced to give Blake another contract as we'll have Simpson and Vardy only on the lsit...

I think we need to hold onto West and play him early, Blake in the 2's. Then we can delist Blake next year.

Gamble will certainly be delisted. I wouldn't mind holding onto him, but we need to use these picks i would have thought...

In that case:

1) Ablett (#15)
2) DJ (#23)
3) Laidler (#36)
4) Gamble (#53)
5) Dasher or Rooke (#57)
6) Pods (#58)
 

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Any chance of Blake being delisted? They already tried to trade him so he obviously isnt wanted.

Or with him still having 1 year left on his contract does he still take up a spot even if he is delisted?

No you can delist to remove the spot but you have to pay out the contract.

Personally, while I think Blake doesn't have a future, since we're going to have to pay him either way, we might as well keep him for another 12 months.

That said, if he (or any other contracted player is delisted) it will be after the national draft (i.e. at the second list lodgement) so their 2011 contract goes in the 2011 cap (if you delist someone now their 2011 contract goes in the 2011 cap and we don't have room there) so if we delist Blake it will give us a pick in the PSD, but it won't solve the problem of cleraring a list space for an ND pick.
 
I think the club is waiting for Rooke's medical report. If Rooke can play on then i think the club may say to Dasher that his time is up. If Rooke is gone then they may let Dasher stay. Can't see both staying. Also Corey, Ling, Ottens, Scarlett etc WILL NOT retire this year.

If we lose West we dig ourselves in a massive hole. Next year will most likely be Ottens' last and if we have no West we're almost forced to give Blake another contract as we'll have Simpson and Vardy only on the lsit...

I think we need to hold onto West and play him early, Blake in the 2's. Then we can delist Blake next year.

Gamble will certainly be delisted. I wouldn't mind holding onto him, but we need to use these picks i would have thought...

In that case:

1) Ablett (#15)
2) DJ (#23)
3) Laidler (#36)
4) Gamble (#53)
5) Dasher or Rooke (#57)
6) Pods (#58)

To be fair, we're going to be down to 2 or 3 ruckmen at the end of next year on the list no matter what we do with West (which is why if we don't spend the next 12 months preparing to poach a ruckmen from somewhere we are stupid). The only consequence of letting West go would be that we are backing in Simpson to make it. 2012 will be West's 7th year and Simpson's 5th, so I am absolutely certain one of them will be gone by then, it's just a question of which. So while I'd hang onto West, it won't make a great deal of difference if we don't, and it certainly won't force us to give Blake another contract (I'd be staggered if that happens).
 
Re: Dust settled. Next move re delistings and picks

It's logical if you ignore him saying he wants to play on and the club saying he probably will! :p

Renewal is here. It doesn't require pushing Milburn out the door.

Well I was going on the comments of Cook a few weeks ago, where he said Dasher wanted to go on, but the decision wouldn’t be up to him…which seemed to imply the tap on the shoulder. They seem to have changed tack since then.


I will agree with you on the bolded point, I’m not fussed if we keep some experienced players on, so long as the new coach is prepared to put them in the VFL (I think Hinkley will) when younger players overtake them on form…so long as Taylor Hunt, Menzel etc aren’t marooned in the VFL when they’re banging the door down, then I don’t mind how we get there.


I hope Milburn, and our other older 30’s, also know that when the end comes, it often comes quickly. While he had a great year of form, that doesn’t mean that come about round 12 next year he’ll still be in the ones, and I would much rather see great players go one year early than stay one year too long.


Collingwood are in a position, where for a variety of reasons, they’re about to make double digit list changes, forcing them to take picks beyond 80 in a compromised draft. I maintain that in that context, the best way for us to manage beyond the expansion period is to tap 2 or 3 blokes on the shoulder now, and then 2 or 3 again at the end of next year, rather than do it all in one hit.
 
I don't mind Mooney going on so long as he is played mainly as a second ruck, Leigh Brown style. He can bash and crash in the centre and then he can drift forward and run off his opponent.
Minimal changes for me. Pods upgraded, Gamble delist, Laidler traded, Djerrkura traded, Ablett gone and West delisted. That leaves 4 live picks in the draft.
 
Re: Dust settled. Next move re delistings and picks

Well I was going on the comments of Cook a few weeks ago, where he said Dasher wanted to go on, but the decision wouldn’t be up to him…which seemed to imply the tap on the shoulder. They seem to have changed tack since then.

Yep, sounds like they have changed their tune. So suggesting now that Milburn will go doesn't really make sense.

I will agree with you on the bolded point, I’m not fussed if we keep some experienced players on, so long as the new coach is prepared to put them in the VFL (I think Hinkley will) when younger players overtake them on form…so long as Taylor Hunt, Menzel etc aren’t marooned in the VFL when they’re banging the door down, then I don’t mind how we get there.


I hope Milburn, and our other older 30’s, also know that when the end comes, it often comes quickly. While he had a great year of form, that doesn’t mean that come about round 12 next year he’ll still be in the ones, and I would much rather see great players go one year early than stay one year too long.


Collingwood are in a position, where for a variety of reasons, they’re about to make double digit list changes, forcing them to take picks beyond 80 in a compromised draft. I maintain that in that context, the best way for us to manage beyond the expansion period is to tap 2 or 3 blokes on the shoulder now, and then 2 or 3 again at the end of next year, rather than do it all in one hit.

It comes back to where the club sees itself next year. From the comments they have made it sounds to me as though they see themselves in contention for the flag again. That means picking the best squad available rather than just planning for the future. In contrast, if the club saw 2010 as the end of an era, we would see quite a few senior players pushed out the door.

A new coach invariably brings change. It is hard to imagine the next coach having the same views on the "best" 22 and having the same favourites that Bomber had. Change in 2011 is inevitable.

And I've got no doubt that if we get half way through next season and it's not looking good, we will see a big change in the way the senior 22 is selected and we may even see some mid-season retirements from the likes of Milburn.
 
Re: Dust settled. Next move re delistings and picks

It comes back to where the club sees itself next year. From the comments they have made it sounds to me as though they see themselves in contention for the flag again. That means picking the best squad available rather than just planning for the future. In contrast, if the club saw 2010 as the end of an era, we would see quite a few senior players pushed out the door.

A new coach invariably brings change. It is hard to imagine the next coach having the same views on the "best" 22 and having the same favourites that Bomber had. Change in 2011 is inevitable.

And I've got no doubt that if we get half way through next season and it's not looking good, we will see a big change in the way the senior 22 is selected and we may even see some mid-season retirements from the likes of Milburn.

Fair points on all.

I'm ok with senior players, including Milburn, going on, so long as they don't get selection if they're not in the best side on form. The fact that Taylor Hunt didn't play the finals this year is proof that didn't happen (albeit that it's not Milburn that should have gone out for him, on form it should have been Ling or Corey).

Having said that (that I am ok with some seniors going on) if you are going to do it, it will be mean double digit list changes in 12 months and so you better bloody be convinced your rookie list is good, because half of them will need to be elevated in 12 months. I watched us play Collingwood 3 times this year, and (Blair is obviously the exception) and their rookie listed players were not much chop, and yet they will be elevating about 4 of them now because they have so many spots to fill and don't want to take picks in the 100's.
 
I don't mind Mooney going on so long as he is played mainly as a second ruck, Leigh Brown style. He can bash and crash in the centre and then he can drift forward and run off his opponent.
Minimal changes for me. Pods upgraded, Gamble delist, Laidler traded, Djerrkura traded, Ablett gone and West delisted. That leaves 4 live picks in the draft.

I don't think Moon's has the fitness levels do play the ruckrover role he played back in 2004-2005 (yes it was that long a go)
He has spent the last 4 years training to play the CHF/FF role which would have included more weights and explosive running work than what is required for the Ruckrover position which is more endurance training than anything
 
Re: Dust settled. Next move re delistings and picks

Fair points on all.

I'm ok with senior players, including Milburn, going on, so long as they don't get selection if they're not in the best side on form. The fact that Taylor Hunt didn't play the finals this year is proof that didn't happen (albeit that it's not Milburn that should have gone out for him, on form it should have been Ling or Corey).

Having said that (that I am ok with some seniors going on) if you are going to do it, it will be mean double digit list changes in 12 months and so you better bloody be convinced your rookie list is good, because half of them will need to be elevated in 12 months. I watched us play Collingwood 3 times this year, and (Blair is obviously the exception) and their rookie listed players were not much chop, and yet they will be elevating about 4 of them now because they have so many spots to fill and don't want to take picks in the 100's.

Agree. Whether we win the flag or finish out of the eight in 2011, there will be a raft of changes in October next year.

This shapes as an important rookie draft.
 
Re: 2011 Geelong list changes

I don't think we will go overboard with pace....We need an injection of role playing players (alla the Pies). Stokes and Byrnes thus have plenty of merit there.

Expect plenty of time to be put into Menzel, Gillies, Brown, Duncan and Taylor Hunt with exposure to guys like Drum, Motlop, Christensen. Our ruck division will certianly change - Dawson Simpson will be given a lot more gametime and i still hold some hope of West playing an integrated mobile role....and this will be at the expense of Blake.

Certainly interesting times. I would love to see Dasher go around again, but understand that it is necessary for him to make way...Other than that, maybe Allwright, Cowan, Ranga, Adam Varcoe, and possibly one of Gamble, Blake and West??? Hopefully Rooke's good to go still!
 
Re: 2011 Geelong list changes

I don't think we will go overboard with pace....We need an injection of role playing players (alla the Pies). Stokes and Byrnes thus have plenty of merit there.

Expect plenty of time to be put into Menzel, Gillies, Brown, Duncan and Taylor Hunt with exposure to guys like Drum, Motlop, Christensen. Our ruck division will certianly change - Dawson Simpson will be given a lot more gametime and i still hold some hope of West playing an integrated mobile role....and this will be at the expense of Blake.

Certainly interesting times. I would love to see Dasher go around again, but understand that it is necessary for him to make way...Other than that, maybe Allwright, Cowan, Ranga, Adam Varcoe, and possibly one of Gamble, Blake and West??? Hopefully Rooke's good to go still!

3 of those 4 are rookies so clearing them doesn't make space for national draft picks.

Now Milburn has been retained I struggle to see how we're going to cut enough players to use all 5 or 6 of our picks.
 

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Re: Dust settled. Next move re delistings and picks

Agree. Whether we win the flag or finish out of the eight in 2011, there will be a raft of changes in October next year.

This shapes as an important rookie draft.

Glad we agree!

It will be an important rookie draft...hopefully after GWS have all their early picks, there will still be some good talent there for us. Keeping in mind that most of them will get elevated in rather short order, we need to make sure we take good ones this year.
 
Re: 2011 Geelong list changes

I don't think we will go overboard with pace....We need an injection of role playing players (alla the Pies). Stokes and Byrnes thus have plenty of merit there.

Expect plenty of time to be put into Menzel, Gillies, Brown, Duncan and Taylor Hunt with exposure to guys like Drum, Motlop, Christensen. Our ruck division will certianly change - Dawson Simpson will be given a lot more gametime and i still hold some hope of West playing an integrated mobile role....and this will be at the expense of Blake.

Certainly interesting times. I would love to see Dasher go around again, but understand that it is necessary for him to make way...Other than that, maybe Allwright, Cowan, Ranga, Adam Varcoe, and possibly one of Gamble, Blake and West??? Hopefully Rooke's good to go still!

I certainly hope so, but I have a fear it may not happen to the extent we want, or is needed.

The club seems to be reluctant to tell some of the older guys that their time is up, and I'm concerned that this will be to the detriment of our youngster. Already, whether justified / talented or not, we have lost several of them due to a lack of opportunity.

I hope the new coach sees a need for new blood, and places form above all else, especially reputation, next year.

Our youngsters need the motivation from believing there is a genuine opportunity to break into the senior side, which (admittedly) has been extremely difficult for them over the last few years due to the incredible standard set by our first 22.

Therefore, players like Mooney, Milburn, Ling, Ottens and Blake should be told that they do not enjoy 'automatic selection' next year, and must justify their inclusion in the senior side each week.
 
Cataholic - Therefore, players like Mooney, Milburn, Ling, Ottens and Blake should be told that they do not enjoy 'automatic selection' next year, and must justify their inclusion in the senior side each week.

Cannot see these guys going around again in 2012. So if we are to make a successful transition we need to have other players getting game time in the seniors next season. How we do this needs to be carefully considered otherwise we could have a bad year coming up sooner than we would like.

I just hope they know they are doing. They have in the past but things seem to be not quite right at present - no Thompson and no Costa leaves fewer really good men to guide the club at present - at a point in time that we have not faced in many years.
 
Cataholic - Therefore, players like Mooney, Milburn, Ling, Ottens and Blake should be told that they do not enjoy 'automatic selection' next year, and must justify their inclusion in the senior side each week.

Cannot see these guys going around again in 2012. So if we are to make a successful transition we need to have other players getting game time in the seniors next season. How we do this needs to be carefully considered otherwise we could have a bad year coming up sooner than we would like.

I just hope they know they are doing. They have in the past but things seem to be not quite right at present - no Thompson and no Costa leaves fewer really good men to guide the club at present - at a point in time that we have not faced in many years.


Totally agree!
 
Geelong are worried about our asssisstant coaches going to Essendon

just wondering are the assisstants on contracts?
How are they employed?
 
Cataholic - Therefore, players like Mooney, Milburn, Ling, Ottens and Blake should be told that they do not enjoy 'automatic selection' next year, and must justify their inclusion in the senior side each week.

Cannot see these guys going around again in 2012. So if we are to make a successful transition we need to have other players getting game time in the seniors next season. How we do this needs to be carefully considered otherwise we could have a bad year coming up sooner than we would like.

I just hope they know they are doing. They have in the past but things seem to be not quite right at present - no Thompson and no Costa leaves fewer really good men to guide the club at present - at a point in time that we have not faced in many years.

Yeah, there seems to be a fair bit of turmoil within the club at the moment. Its amazing how quickly its all unravelled.

We simply must play some of our youngsters next year, but it concerns me that selections may err on the side of reputation and past deeds, rather than youth and form.

Brown, Gillies, Hunt, West, Simpson, Menzel and Duncan simply must be given the opportunity to compete with the likes of Mooney, Milburn, Blake, Ottens, Byrnes and Stokes for a spot in the side, without the latter being given the advantage of 'automatic selection'.

It will take courage and strong leadership from our new coach, but it simply needs to be done.
 
Maxxxyyyy....

So where we're at:

GONE: (in order of importance)
  • Max Rooke
  • Ablett
  • Laidler
  • Djerrkura
  • Gamble
UPGRADED:
  • J-Pod
Milburn is going on, you'd think all the others were too, so that leaves us 4 picks in the draft: 15, 23, 36, 53... 57 will be the upgrade for Pods.

Anyone know of anymore possible delistings retirements?

Any names who we'll target in the draft?

15 and 23, speedy mids
36 key back
53 ruck
 
Maxxxyyyy....

So where we're at:

GONE: (in order of importance)
  • Max Rooke
  • Ablett
  • Laidler
  • Djerrkura
  • Gamble
UPGRADED:
  • J-Pod
Milburn is going on, you'd think all the others were too, so that leaves us 4 picks in the draft: 15, 23, 36, 53... 57 will be the upgrade for Pods.

Anyone know of anymore possible delistings retirements?

Any names who we'll target in the draft?

15 and 23, speedy mids
36 key back
53 ruck

Well no announcement has been made on Gamble yet, but I expect him to go.

Assuming he goes, then we need 2 more changes in order to use all 6 picks plus 75 to upgrade Pods.

I would expect we plan to use 57, otherwise the fact that we spent all week arguing with the Dogs to get 57 rather than 73 makes no sense. Therefore I am expecting one more delisting or retirement, and maybe two.

As for your draft predictions, they are similar to what I'm thinking. Come over to the thread in Cat Scan if you like.
 
Do we know Gamble is officially gone ? Yes we need to delist some players to make room for our new draft picks - but is this official yet ?

15 and 23, speedy mids
36 key back
53 ruck

Not so sure about the selections you suggest here.

All being equal the greatest need for the Cats is in the ruck, then KP backman and then some speedy mids IMO.

However I think Geelong will pick the best players available at the time - whether they be any of these types - because you are right - we need these type of players you have put forward.

Why turn down someone that Wells reckons is a gun but does not fit our exact requirements ? However we have wide needs so it will be easy for Wells given these requirements.
 
The players that have left so far, and the ones that are expected to be delisted, still wont free up much gametime for the young players for next year:
Gary - 24 games in '10
Djerrkura - 1
Laidler - 1
Rooke - 1

and most likely:

Gamble - 2
West - 4

Is this a hindrance for next year's younger players trying to get more gametime?
 
I think we'll always take best available...you don't pass up the best player at a pick...you only take the "needs" one if the two players are equal...having said that I think with the fact that so many premiership players are retiring, Wells will focus more on needs this year, whereas in past years there hasn't been such a need to do that.

The ruckman is a tough one...we probably need one more, but ruckman are so hit and miss that you don't always want to waste early picks on them...it will come back to Wells' judgement on that and we may well even wait until the rookie draft, in the knowledge that there'll be a lot of elevations in 12 months time.

As for Gamble I think it'll be a mutual parting of ways...it's best for his career that he moves on as his opportunities will be limited here.

I'm reasonably confident to predict our 6 picks (assuming we use all 6) will be speedy mid X 2, key back X1, ruck X 1, and X2 others, just a question of in what order.
 
The players that have left so far, and the ones that are expected to be delisted, still wont free up much gametime for the young players for next year:
Gary - 24 games in '10
Djerrkura - 1
Laidler - 1
Rooke - 1

and most likely:

Gamble - 2
West - 4

Is this a hindrance for next year's younger players trying to get more gametime?

Yep, we're only opening up 2 spots in the 22 (well really one since Maxy was missing all this year anyway) so it's still going to be hard for the kids to get gametime.

This is the wrong year to delist West IMO.
 

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List Mgmt. 2010 delistings and draft picks

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