2012 draft

[_RT_]

Gee there is alot of crap being posted atm about alot of things that most agree with but worded in different ways, Its not F**** brain surgery here guys - Plain & Simple
YOU PICK THE BEST POSSIBLE PLAYER YOU CAN AT YOUR PICK. - Regardless of needs

#32 , #34 , #43 are the selections that matter the most, If Richmond Football Club is solely relying on 1st round draft picks to get us to the next level - WE ARE F****K

My Biggest issue with taking Vlastuin is that he is more of the same, Vanilla player similar to Ellis,Conca - There is no superstar factor i can see, Sure he is inside and gets his hands dirty and a leader etc etc etc but so is Jackson,Tuck(leader in his own way)Newman.

We need more Delidio's,cotchins,Martins,Riewoldts guys that can turn games on their heads like Chapman,Ablett,Bartell,Franklin,Fyffe, etc etc - Sure they are hard to find But they are there and you dont get them going after Vanilla players.

What i have seen of Vlastuin is he is a very very reliable player that will give it his all,But looks like he is lacking pace and agility as well as having 0 X-Factor. Players that i like the look of in this draft that can become 'STARS' are apart from the toumpas,Whitfield are Stringer,Garlett,Menzel,Plowman (massive 192cm smart midfielder).

We should be looking for the Hidden Vlastuin's with our later selections.
#9 - Take the cream of the crop, The star player
#32 & #34 - Take the Workmen that are your Tuck,Jackson replacements
#43 - Take your X-Factor Big Man like a Spencer white types

Im starting to believe more & more that our coaching staff are getting to the stage where they are trying to coach for today rather than sticking to the long term plan of building properly. Vlastuin is a 'SAFE' selection for our recruiters with Low Risk but Medium Return - Lets not leave the next Buddy,Pav,Fyffe for the other teams that have the Balls to pick them

This is what I don't get, posters like yourself saying we need to take more match winners. Cotchin, Deledio, Riewoldt and Martin are our match winners, what they need are reliable support acts. While Conca Ellis Tuck and Grigg are solid support acts but they aren't enough, we need more and Vlastuin is definitely another solid reliable support act who will allow our match winners to go about winning matches.

It's the one thing that separates us from the regular finals sides. While those sides have their match winners, they do have a quality group of support acts around them. These are the players who can be counted on week after week to perform their jobs. As I said above Vlastuin might appear as another vanilla type, the truth is that he is exactly what we need at this stage of our development.

 

[THE_GUN]

Quigley's got us picking Kennedy at 9!

Some have him going at #30 to Port and Quigley's got him at #9 to us - I think he will be more around the 15-25 range personally

 

[Mr Magic]

Care to name names Magic? There is no doubt Dimma will be feeling the heat if no finals next year, but IMO that is warranted, he said internally they thought we would play finals this year, but we lost the close ones. He called the year a fail himself.
WTF else are they working towards?!

Foley getting injured hurt our midfield, Tucky battled manfully, Dusty had his moments. Call it what you want mate it's the unfortunate truth.
EVERYONE in the whole footy department who has been interviewed has stated the need for more midfielders to add to the rotations. It's a big hole we need to fill.

Wouldn't know but I think when the Tigers talk about making final 8 in 2013 it is like Vlad telling the punters MFC didn't tank.

Sure we can make the finals in 2013 but, like Newie referred to lip service in the past, Dimma should have got a longer extension so this type of fuss for 2013 never even entered into the equation. Bad stewardship IMO when the goals are to win a premiership.

I really think fans care more about working towards a premiership than anything else, but certain stakeholders within clubs do not necessarily perceive this or perhaps do not wish to perceive it because it is difficult to manage over the long term looking at short term horizons

 

[_RT_]

Well this latest BULLSHIT from the vlAdFL won't be doing us any favours:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ett-scandal-20121116-29h8q.html#ixzz2CMXpfgie

Blame the Crows not the AFL as it was them who got the adjournment. While it was clever on their part I can't help but think that it's just going to cause the AFL to come down harder on them later on.

 

[Mr Magic]

This is what I don't get, posters like yourself saying we need to take more match winners. Cotchin, Deledio, Riewoldt and Martin are our match winners, what they need are reliable support acts. While Conca Ellis Tuck and Grigg are solid support acts but they aren't enough, we need more and Vlastuin is definitely another solid reliable support act who will allow our match winners to go about winning matches.

It's the one thing that separates us from the regular finals sides. While those sides have their match winners, they do have a quality group of support acts around them. These are the players who can be counted on week after week to perform their jobs. As I said above Vlastuin might appear as another vanilla type, the truth is that he is exactly what we need at this stage of our development.

Disagree, I am with the Gun, when you get a gift horse star opportunity, don't pass it up for a support act.

Frankly, IMO some of the top end selectios could be excused for not being ambition enough taping into star potential.

Griffiths was one, Conca and ellis was the conservative plays, now it is time to draw a longer bow. The Gun is on the money IMO.

Get busy living or get busy dying, no regrets!!

you get 95+ in exams by going for 120 not accepting 80 in terms of effort. Same principle applies in recruitings, if you reach for potatoes you will get nothing but potatoes and no pudding for you and me to enjoy.

the truth is, I seriously doubt anyone knows what we need at a certain stage of development since we are so far from a team with the cattle to make a GF just yet. I like for us to be objective and go best available and I would like some emphasis on the physical capabilities of players like the Geelong, and Brisbane recruiters apply as well as GWS.

If you want to win and get great rewards in a competition you must take risks, you cannot avoid them or you will not succeed. The only team of consistent high average support acts then can claim a premiership is perhaps the Swans with their salary cap bonus or the pies after they got Ball for nothing , used their power and then only just scrapped in.

Apart from that all premierships are won on cattle and usually it is the top echelon, you can't ignore it if you want to win the big one!!

 

[THE_GUN]

This is what I don't get, posters like yourself saying we need to take more match winners. Cotchin, Deledio, Riewoldt and Martin are our match winners, what they need are reliable support acts. While Conca Ellis Tuck and Grigg are solid support acts but they aren't enough, we need more and Vlastuin is definitely another solid reliable support act who will allow our match winners to go about winning matches.

It's the one thing that separates us from the regular finals sides. While those sides have their match winners, they do have a quality group of support acts around them. These are the players who can be counted on week after week to perform their jobs. As I said above Vlastuin might appear as another vanilla type, the truth is that he is exactly what we need at this stage of our development.

What is there not to get mate - plain and Simple best picks go to the best players (not for workmen)

We have 4 selections in this draft and possibly another 3-4 in the psd-rookie, Get your support acts there, Our 1st round selections should always be used for best available talent - Sorry but Vlastuin according to the best judges both on this forum & In the media isnt in the top 10 - HE IS JUST A SAFE PICK
Sam Mitchell #36
Dane swan #58
Mathew Boyd #23-Rookie draft
dayne Beams #29
Josh kennedy -trade for peanuts
Andrew swallow- #43
Shane Tuck - peanuts

The part of your post thats completely wrong is where you state he is exactly what we need at this stage of our development, The thing is we are not going to win a flag in the next 2 years - So we should be looking at ''EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED IN 3 YEAR TIME'' - Thats B.GRUNDY
Shane Tuck - peanuts
Mathew priddis #31

 

[Harmichael]

Blame the Crows not the AFL as it was them who got the adjournment. While it was clever on their part I can't help but think that it's just going to cause the AFL to come down harder on them later on.

Well I personally thinks it's laughable and an absolute disgrace that BOTH Adelaide & Melbourne will still be able to participate in this year's draft and it's ENTIRELY the AFL's fault.

Adelaide dobbed themselves in and admitted to what they did so why do they need an adjournment?

The AFL deliberately dragged the chain with the Melbourne investigation.

Vlad &co. have been turning a blind eye to all this shit for years.

 

[_RT_]

Disagree, I am with the Gun, when you get a gift horse star opportunity, don't pass it up for a support act.

Frankly, IMO some of the top end selectios could be excused for not being ambition enough taping into star potential.

Griffiths was one, Conca and ellis was the conservative plays, now it is time to draw a longer bow. The Gun is on the money IMO.

Get busy living or get busy dying, no regrets!!

you get 95+ in exams by going for 120 not accepting 80 in terms of effort. Same principle applies in recruitings, if you reach for potatoes you will get nothing but potatoes and no pudding for you and me to enjoy

What is the one thing that we have all been saying over the last couple of years? We need more quality depth and Vlastuin is exactly that, quality depth that will make our side better from the very start. See people talk about how we need to have more match winners, well think about this, getting a genuine midfielder like Vlastuin will allow us to use guys like Cotchin or Martin or Deledio more often as forwards. That in itself gives us that X-Factor that we crave without really taking anything away from our midfield like it did this year when they pushed forward.

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

What is there not to get mate - plain and Simple best picks go to the best players (not for workmen)

We have 4 selections in this draft and possibly another 3-4 in the psd-rookie, Get your support acts there, Our 1st round selections should always be used for best available talent - Sorry but Vlastuin according to the best judges both on this forum & In the media isnt in the top 10 - HE IS JUST A SAFE PICK
Sam Mitchell #36
Dane swan #58
Mathew Boyd #23-Rookie draft
dayne Beams #29
Josh kennedy -trade for peanuts
Andrew swallow- #43
Shane Tuck - peanuts

The part of your post thats completely wrong is where you state he is exactly what we need at this stage of our development, The thing is we are not going to win a flag in the next 2 years - So we should be looking at ''EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED IN 3 YEAR TIME'' - Thats B.GRUNDY
Shane Tuck - peanuts
Mathew priddis #31

I guess the counter arguement would be;

Cox - Rookie
Sandilands - Rookie
Mumford - Rookie
Jolly - Rookie
Jim Stynes - never played the game

 

[_RT_]

What is there not to get mate - plain and Simple best picks go to the best players (not for workmen)

We have 4 selections in this draft and possibly another 3-4 in the psd-rookie, Get your support acts there, Our 1st round selections should always be used for best available talent - Sorry but Vlastuin according to the best judges both on this forum & In the media isnt in the top 10 - HE IS JUST A SAFE PICK
Sam Mitchell #36
Dane swan #58
Mathew Boyd #23-Rookie draft
dayne Beams #29
Josh kennedy -trade for peanuts
Andrew swallow- #43
Shane Tuck - peanuts

The part of your post thats completely wrong is where you state he is exactly what we need at this stage of our development, The thing is we are not going to win a flag in the next 2 years - So we should be looking at ''EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED IN 3 YEAR TIME'' - Thats B.GRUNDY
Shane Tuck - peanuts
Mathew priddis #31

Jordan Lewis
Grant Birchall
David Armitage
Shaun Grigg
Rhys Palmer
Brad Ebert
Daniel Rich
Steele Sidebottom
Jack Ziebell
The one thing they all have in common is that they are top 20 picks that while not match winners are solid performers for their sides that allow the match winners to star. Vlastuin could be that same sort of player, the only reason many people talk him down is because unlike some others he hasn't been hyped up by the collective think tank. At the start of this season he was touted as a top 5 pick, it was only through injury that he has slipped down as he hasn't been able to perform in his usual role. I have no doubt that Vlastuin if fit this year would have been right in the mix for the top 5 picks and if he was and we were still getting him at 9 the majority of posters here would be doing cartwheels.

 

[Mr Magic]

What is the one thing that we have all been saying over the last couple of years? We need more quality depth and Vlastuin is exactly that, quality depth that will make our side better from the very start. See people talk about how we need to have more match winners, well think about this, getting a genuine midfielder like Vlastuin will allow us to use guys like Cotchin or Martin or Deledio more often as forwards. That in itself gives us that X-Factor that we crave without really taking anything away from our midfield like it did this year when they pushed forward.

If Vlastuin is best available, fine.

but if we are getting him just because he is a quality support player to fill a need particularly in the shorter term I don't agree with it.

I don't know, on face value I would definitely go Grundy without question, Plowman, Macrae, and Mayes before Vlastuin apart from a few others but they might be gone before 9 anyway.

At the same time , I know I know not near as much as the experts, I just hope the pick on best available criterion particularly on field capability in a GF scenario

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

What is the one thing that we have all been saying over the last couple of years? We need more quality depth and Vlastuin is exactly that, quality depth that will make our side better from the very start. See people talk about how we need to have more match winners, well think about this, getting a genuine midfielder like Vlastuin will allow us to use guys like Cotchin or Martin or Deledio more often as forwards. That in itself gives us that X-Factor that we crave without really taking anything away from our midfield like it did this year when they pushed forward.

We've got the "matchwinner/x factor" players. We've already drafted them.. We need to get the ball to them/release them to play that role.

 

[cairo tiger]

spot on!

double spot on.

for me if he is there we take grundy or menzel. they have x factor.

mids go back to 30 ish. we can get them there and we have a good crop.

I am telling you I will be mighty pissed of if we dont take grundy if hes there.

 

[THE_GUN]

What is the one thing that we have all been saying over the last couple of years? We need more quality depth and Vlastuin is exactly that, quality depth that will make our side better from the very start. See people talk about how we need to have more match winners, well think about this, getting a genuine midfielder like Vlastuin will allow us to use guys like Cotchin or Martin or Deledio more often as forwards. That in itself gives us that X-Factor that we crave without really taking anything away from our midfield like it did this year when they pushed forward.

Im sorry RT but you have totally lost the plot on this 1 mate- You dont use a top 10 selection on a depth player

 

[Mr Magic]

Jordan Lewis
Grant Birchall
David Armitage
Shaun Grigg
Rhys Palmer
Brad Ebert
Daniel Rich
Steele Sidebottom
Jack Ziebell
The one thing they all have in common is that they are top 20 picks that while not match winners are solid performers for their sides that allow the match winners to star. Vlastuin could be that same sort of player, the only reason many people talk him down is because unlike some others he hasn't been hyped up by the collective think tank. At the start of this season he was touted as a top 5 pick, it was only through injury that he has slipped down as he hasn't been able to perform in his usual role. I have no doubt that Vlastuin if fit this year would have been right in the mix for the top 5 picks and if he was and we were still getting him at 9 the majority of posters here would be doing cartwheels.

If say we get Vlastuin at 9 and plays like Rich for argument sake and Macrae gets picked by the blues and becomes similar to a Pendlebury you can see how supporters will think they have egg on their faces surely.

This year I think the midfield depth is a little stronger and you could possibly get a gem , not just a support player at 9. Atkins might be a good mid support player at our second round picks

 

[_RT_]

Im sorry RT but you have totally lost the plot on this 1 mate- You dont use a top 10 selection on a depth player

When I say quality depth I'm not talking depth like McGuane or White, I'm talking like those players I named before eg. Lewis, Birchall Armitage and the like. Vlastuin will be a quality player and will compliment our stars like those guys compliment their stars.

If Vlastuin is best available, fine.

but if we are getting him just because he is a quality support player to fill a need particularly in the shorter term I don't agree with it.

I don't know, on face value I would definitely go Grundy without question, Plowman, Macrae, and Mayes before Vlastuin apart from a few others but they might be gone before 9 anyway.

At the same time , I know I know not near as much as the experts, I just hope the pick on best available criterion particularly on field capability in a GF scenario

Vlastuin isn't a short term solution he is a long term solution who will help improve us short term as well.

 

[Mr Magic]

When I say quality depth I'm not talking depth like McGuane or White, I'm talking like those players I named before eg. Lewis, Birchall Armitage and the like. Vlastuin will be a quality player and will compliment our stars like those guys compliment their stars.


Vlastuin isn't a short term solution he is a long term solution who will help improve us short term as well.

The short term shouldn't even be in the equation. I wish Brendan would say, "supporters we are not concerned about finals, we are going for the juggler and chasing a premiership".

At 9 I would want more than Birchall, Armitage. Lewis I rate a bit higher in terms of quality. I am anticipating Macrae, definitely Grundy, Mayes and Plowman to be weapons not just support players, or at least opposition headaches.

Actually, is the an overrating of inside mids because I rate Birchall and Lewis well ahead of Armitage?

 

[CallMeAl]

where do people get the idea that the club doesnt rate vlastuin ( or whomever they pick) as the best player.

Its funny people wanting us to take a higher risk for a supposed higher return. we have had so many early draft picks in the past and it has not been taking players that have turned out to be good players while others we overlooked have turned out to be better, that has hurt us, it has been taking players that did not make the grade and were gone from the list in 5 years time that has hurt us.

It doesnt matter how good a player is potentially, if he aint on the list and performing in 5 years time then it is a fail, the sort of fail that has seen us wallow near the bottom for most of the period the draft has been in place.

 

[TJTIGER]

Adelaide to retain picks. Penalties will apply from 2013 onwards.

I get the feeling the postponement of the hearing (I think it was, was tactical by the crows) to ensure they got this years draft picks becos I think they expect to be higher up the ladder and it won't hurt them as much. But I'm guessing. Smart move on their part.

 

[CallMeAl]

Probably been a while, did the pies do it years ago? Anyway GWS could easily win a premiership first year into a finals if they develop it right . The thing is if we are 4 years from a premiership capable team we can't let 2013 get in the way of developing a premiership team and no, I am not talking about tanking , if anyone wants to go down that track

probably been a while? I cant recall any team winning a premiership without some recent finals experience , yet you seem to have somehow forged a notion that not only is it possible, but that playing finals before you are good enough to win the big prize is actually a hinderance and your plans should be to avoid it?

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Despite all the phantoms id be 100% comfortable in taking Kennedy at 9

I'd back the club in if that's their view.

 

[TJTIGER]

Quigley's got us picking Kennedy at 9!

Could he be FJ's left field pick ??

 

[THE_GUN]

I get the feeling the postponement of the hearing (I think it was, was tactical by the crows) to ensure they got this years draft picks becos I think they expect to be higher up the ladder and it won't hurt them as much. But I'm guessing. Smart move on their part.

Well if they get excluded from the 2013-2014 drafts, Angus Graham could find himself having another 3 years on a Afl list - Wow Angus Graham 10 year player lol

where do people get the idea that the club doesnt rate vlastuin ( or whomever they pick) as the best player.

Its funny people wanting us to take a higher risk for a supposed higher return. we have had so many early draft picks in the past and it has not been taking players that have turned out to be good players while others we overlooked have turned out to be better, that has hurt us, it has been taking players that did not make the grade and were gone from the list in 5 years time that has hurt us.

It doesnt matter how good a player is potentially, if he aint on the list and performing in 5 years time then it is a fail, the sort of fail that has seen us wallow near the bottom for most of the period the draft has been in place.

Not wanting the club to take a higher risk, Just want them to take the best possible player available at pick #9 without thinking about making the finals or immediate success , Dont get me wrong im not bagging the kid at all but just dont want my club limiting itself to a 'SAFE' pick at 80% when there are players that could be Elite left for the likes of Collingwood/Carlton or Hawthorn - pick the best player on talent not needs

When I say quality depth I'm not talking depth like McGuane or White, I'm talking like those players I named before eg. Lewis, Birchall Armitage and the like. Vlastuin will be a quality player and will compliment our stars like those guys compliment their stars.


Vlastuin isn't a short term solution he is a long term solution who will help improve us short term as well.

BUT is he the best talented player that will be available at pick #9 - Thats what we want

If say we get Vlastuin at 9 and plays like Rich for argument sake and Macrae gets picked by the blues and becomes similar to a Pendlebury you can see how supporters will think they have egg on their faces surely.

This year I think the midfield depth is a little stronger and you could possibly get a gem , not just a support player at 9. Atkins might be a good mid support player at our second round picks

Exactly the point , Why settle for a vanilla Rich, When the cream Pendlebury is still on the board at our pick

 

[_RT_]

The short term shouldn't even be in the equation. I wish Brendan would say, "supporters we are not concerned about finals, we are going for the juggler and chasing a premiership".

At 9 I would want more than Birchall, Armitage. Lewis I rate a bit higher in terms of quality. I am anticipating Macrae, definitely Grundy, Mayes and Plowman to be weapons not just support players, or at least opposition headaches.

Actually, is the an overrating of inside mids because I rate Birchall and Lewis well ahead of Armitage?

The short term is just as important as the longer term, for without decent short term results we will never get into position to reach the longer term goal. In other words I would hope like hell we are concerned with finals because making them is the next step in reaching our ultimate goal.

 

[Mr Magic]

probably been a while? I cant recall any team winning a premiership without some recent finals experience , yet you seem to have somehow forged a notion that not only is it possible, but that playing finals before you are good enough to win the big prize is actually a hinderance and your plans should be to avoid it?

Rubbish.

It is hard to not play finals before a premiership the following year because of the number of teams and a final 8. If we hard a final 5 it could easily happen. As I said GWS, if get their timing right, could do it.

Its almost saying you have to lose a GF to win one. Fact is we won't win a premiership in 2014 anyway so 2013 doesn't apply IMO. If we are targeting a premiership are you happy with finals 2015, premiership 2016???