2012 draft

[petro12]

Some people are now thinking wines will be the slider. If we are after an inside mid you'd take him
over Vlad you'd think

 

[Heisenberg_]

God I hate when people think they are draft experts based on highlight packages on YouTube...

 

[Mr Magic]

The short term is just as important as the longer term, for without decent short term results we will never get into position to reach the longer term goal. In other words I would hope like hell we are concerned with finals because making them is the next step in reaching our ultimate goal.

I simply don't buy that argument. I think it is just an excuse for officials to alter goals to easier more manageable short term objectives that are easier to achieve with less risk more security.


How many support players did Geelong have in 2007?? Hardly any most were champions!!!

You can never have enough champions, and they feed off each other to make a champion team!!

 

[_RT_]

Well if they get excluded from the 2013-2014 drafts, Angus Graham could find himself having another 3 years on a Afl list - Wow Angus Graham 10 year player lol

Not wanting the club to take a higher risk, Just want them to take the best possible player available at pick #9 without thinking about making the finals or immediate success , Dont get me wrong im not bagging the kid at all but just dont want my club limiting itself to a 'SAFE' pick at 80% when there are players that could be Elite left for the likes of Collingwood/Carlton or Hawthorn - pick the best player on talent not needs


BUT is he the best talented player that will be available at pick #9 - Thats what we want

Exactly the point , Why settle for a vanilla Rich, When the cream Pendlebury is still on the board at our pick

As I said before at the start of the year Vlastuin was regarded as a top 5 pick and the only reason he isn't still being talked up as one is because he hasn't been able to play in his normal role. Therefore most of the media and draft watchers on forums slip him down their orders as they get caught up in the hype of those who are catching the eye and being hyped up. FJ and co would have been watching him for a while now and will know what he is capable of producing. For this reason I am quite comfortable in backing them in when it comes to picking him.

 

[CallMeAl]

Not wanting the club to take a higher risk, Just want them to take the best possible player available at pick #9 without thinking about making the finals or immediate success , Dont get me wrong im not bagging the kid at all but just dont want my club limiting itself to a 'SAFE' pick at 80% when there are players that could be Elite left for the likes of Collingwood/Carlton or Hawthorn - pick the best player on talent not needs


BUT is he the best talented player that will be available at pick #9 - Thats what we want

Exactly the point , Why settle for a vanilla Rich, When the cream Pendlebury is still on the board at our pick

when the club rate the players they take into account the likelihood of them making the grade and being the sort of person that perform when needed, just not raw talent. This is the aspect that some are not taking into consideration

Look at cry baby rievoldt. you could put together a brilliant highights packge, but how many times when he has had a pressure kick for goal late in a game does he miss? where was he in multiple grand finals?

have a look at the video of the Jackson interview I linked to earlier. He explains what they look for.
His closing comments are superb and makes you wonder if he has read these forums.

 

[CallMeAl]

Rubbish.

It is hard to not play finals before a premiership the following year because of the number of teams and a final 8. If we hard a final 5 it could easily happen. As I said GWS, if get their timing right, could do it.

Its almost saying you have to lose a GF to win one. Fact is we won't win a premiership in 2014 anyway so 2013 doesn't apply IMO. If we are targeting a premiership are you happy with finals 2015, premiership 2016???

Rubbish?
Then show me one club that has?
What you see in the future in your LSD fueled crystal ball is not fact. What you believe GWS may do 25 years into the future is not an indication on what happens in the past and now.

are you a just troll or are your convoluted posts actually an indication of you thought processes.

 

[_RT_]

I simply don't buy that argument. I think it is just an excuse for officials to alter goals to easier more manageable short term objectives that are easier to achieve with less risk more security.


How many support players did Geelong have in 2007?? Hardly any most were champions!!!

You can never have enough champions, and they feed off each other to make a champion team!!

Tenace Byrnes David Johnson Varcoe Stokes Nathan Ablett and Blake were hardly what I would call stars in Geelongs line up in 07. A guy like Varcoe would become a very good player down the track, but at the time was a quality depth player who played his role. Vlastuin could be that type of player, depth early on then a star in their own right down the track.

 

[theflea]

Fine, but the obvious question then is, why did we get Conca???.. and if we are writing him off now as an inside mid who is in the gun barrell sights??

bc you need quite a few thats why.

 

[jreesosb]

Easy Tiger(s)
Lets back the club in on this one
oh what the heck, its a forum ; rip into each other

 

[Bird Man]

when the club rate the players they take into account the likelihood of them making the grade and being the sort of person that perform when needed, just not raw talent. This is the aspect that some are not taking into consideration

Look at cry baby rievoldt. you could put together a brilliant highights packge, but how many times when he has had a pressure kick for goal late in a game does he miss? where was he in multiple grand finals?

have a look at the video of the Jackson interview I linked to earlier. He explains what they look for.
His closing comments are superb and makes you wonder if he has read these forums.

I agree with what ur saying ...
Although for example is we had pick 1 right ... And let's say we terribly needed a key defender but the best player in the draft was a key forward like Patton for another example ... I believe we would pick up the key forward with our first

That's how Jackson sees it and if Grundy is there even though we really don't "need him" which an argument can be formed that we do but cbf we will take him

 

[theflea]

Honestly as good as Cotch is all around the ground he is the general in the middle and always will be while he is there. It does matter who you get to help him he is the daddy and if Vastuin is chopping him out thats no good. No saying he would but seriously you have the premier midfielder in the comp and we could have the best to midfielders inside in 3 years time and you are worrying about inside mids???Its almost like what the.

Like we have a side of mids and no one can kick the goals or whatever. Tigers need to be careful not to create and imbalanced team that lacks cohesion. Conca is not an outside player IMO as much as some like to spin it just like Vickery is not an outright forward.

P.S. don't worry about my sake, I am not worrying about yours

I tell you what if Vlastuin is good but workmanlike and second tier to a Macrae who is overlooked and turns into a Pendlebury type and Conca doesn't come on but festers around like thereabouts player you would pick around 18 as the phantoms have it, the recruiters shouldn't worry about me, they should worry about what everyone else and the jury is suspecting overtime. I wish all players the best but don't think for a moment the recruiting decisions will not be scrutinised. You don't need Santa Claus posting to have the blow torch on your butt

i think the reason why we failed to make the 8 this year was when a 2nd and 3rd rotation of mids is in the centre we lost cohesion,composure and nous at stoppages. this is what depth will bring(hence knights) and why we draft for these types. the loss of foley really affected our rotations and we couldnt replace him (his level) with what we have. hopefully conca and others will fill this need.

 

[Mr Magic]

Tenace Byrnes David Johnson Varcoe Stokes Nathan Ablett and Blake were hardly what I would call stars in Geelongs line up in 07. A guy like Varcoe would become a very good player down the track, but at the time was a quality depth player who played his role. Vlastuin could be that type of player, depth early on then a star in their own right down the track.

Varcoe was around in 2007 But he was a quality pick that slipped due to injury. Was top 10 talent I believe. Tenace, David Johnson and Blake didn't play in the GF. Nathan Ablett son of God was a father son.

Stokes is a quality player even though hasn't made AA/ Byrnes maybe the weakest link but serviceable. 5-6 support players at best in that team including the likes of Ablett and Stokes that were big contributors particularly Ablett. The point is who won the GF for them?

 

[theflea]

No, I agree with what you are saying that you need to win the ball, IMO you are completely misreading my point.

What I am saying, is this.

1.Just say 5 years to a premiership.

2.You get best available. recruit best available to get best team.

3. So do not think positionally anything just best available.

4. In the fourth year you have all the players you need except best available policy mean't you are one short in terms of extractor. So in draft for final year you get your extractor like Vlastuin or better and he is ready to play and you attack the premiership the next year.

So what I am saying is you need players to win the ball to win but you do not need them at the outset of a period when you are still buiding your list. You can get them in the end particularly when they can come on quickly like Selwood or you can get them via free agency/trades

Regarding the last paragrapgh, Vlastuin would have to match Kennedy as a bare minimum. You talk about stars but to me Macrae demonstrates more star quality potentially likewise Mayes, Grundy etc.. to me Vlastuin is good but the Gun referred to him as workmanlike, he played at HBF this year, he is after 11 in most phantoms so the necessary star aspect does not necessarily wash with me. Besides you do not necessarily need star extractors in the mauls today like the rucks , you need stars in space that kick goals like Chapman and Stevie J. Besides when I was talking about getting extractors via free agency I has sights on better options than Kennedy, aka real weapons of mass destruction that hit the scoreboard with a bang!

imo in this era of zoning and pressing these ball winners are even more imperative.

 

[CallMeAl]

I agree with what ur saying ...
Although for example is we had pick 1 right ... And let's say we terribly needed a key defender but the best player in the draft was a key forward like Patton for another example ... I believe we would pick up the key forward with our first

That's how Jackson sees it and if Grundy is there even though we really don't "need him" which an argument can be formed that we do but cbf we will take him

Yeah, i think it was hartley who said they drafted for talent and traded for need. If by their rating grundy was best available i'm sure they would take him, but their rating are not based solely on raw talent

anyways, you can always turn a key forward into a key back, most of the good ones started out as forwards.

 

[theflea]

Only as an 18 year old but no club called out my name. I felt like a fat chick at a blue light disco !

ah blue light disco at roller city. those were the days.

 

[Mr Magic]

i think the reason why we failed to make the 8 this year was when a 2nd and 3rd rotation of mids is in the centre we lost cohesion,composure and nous at stoppages. this is what depth will bring(hence knights) and why we draft for these types. the loss of foley really affected our rotations and we couldnt replace him (his level) with what we have. hopefully conca and others will fill this need.

Don't agree. Not enough quality.

Not enough in the sense a few more high end players can start to control the game more in terms of their impact. Eg. Cotch off the ground etc....

Some of those games we should have kicked more goals if we had better forwards so we wouldn't get into those situations in the first place etc...

I don't see our middles as a achilles heel compared to other areas in the team

 

[Mr Magic]

imo in this era of zoning and pressing these ball winners are even more imperative.

Not necessarily because when you break the flood you need a forward to use speed and talent to capitalise on the space to finish off with a goal. Like always must capitalise on opportunities, plenty can extract

 

[theflea]

This is what I don't get, posters like yourself saying we need to take more match winners. Cotchin, Deledio, Riewoldt and Martin are our match winners, what they need are reliable support acts. While Conca Ellis Tuck and Grigg are solid support acts but they aren't enough, we need more and Vlastuin is definitely another solid reliable support act who will allow our match winners to go about winning matches.

It's the one thing that separates us from the regular finals sides. While those sides have their match winners, they do have a quality group of support acts around them. These are the players who can be counted on week after week to perform their jobs. As I said above Vlastuin might appear as another vanilla type, the truth is that he is exactly what we need at this stage of our development.

snap!!!!!!

 

[theflea]

probably been a while? I cant recall any team winning a premiership without some recent finals experience , yet you seem to have somehow forged a notion that not only is it possible, but that playing finals before you are good enough to win the big prize is actually a hinderance and your plans should be to avoid it?

the pies 1977?

 

[UpTheGuts]

FYI - Quigley reckons its a close call as to whether Whitfield deserves #1 ahead of Grundy...

Just saying

 

[theflea]

I simply don't buy that argument. I think it is just an excuse for officials to alter goals to easier more manageable short term objectives that are easier to achieve with less risk more security.


How many support players did Geelong have in 2007?? Hardly any most were champions!!!

You can never have enough champions, and they feed off each other to make a champion team!!

sorry have to disagree with this. these are my support players from their gf,
wojo,harley,hunt,burnes,n ablett,stokes and rooke. all these players complimented the guns.

 

[theflea]

Don't agree. Not enough quality.

Not enough in the sense a few more high end players can start to control the game more in terms of their impact. Eg. Cotch off the ground etc....

Some of those games we should have kicked more goals if we had better forwards so we wouldn't get into those situations in the first place etc...

I don't see our middles as a achilles heel compared to other areas in the team

we didnt win the ball enough for long enough. the fact that we were close at all is irrelevant as we want to be miles ahead in the score. if we win the ball more we dont have to have these hand in mouth close contests we hate.

 

[CallMeAl]

the pies 1977?

They werent premiers, plus I deliberately worded it so as to not restrict it to being the previous season .
even though they tanked in 76, they played a number of consecutive finals series before that

 

[theflea]

Not necessarily because when you break the flood you need a forward to use speed and talent to capitalise on the space to finish off with a goal. Like always must capitalise on opportunities, plenty can extract

well you have to get the ball first AND distribute it smartly not just slam it on the boot. this is what the best do better than most as they dont WASTE a clearance.

 

[Dags21]

well you have to get the ball first AND distribute it smartly not just slam it on the boot. this is what the best do better than most as they dont WASTE a clearance.

Spot on there flea. We need to be looking for players who can win their own ball AND use it well also...
Looking for inside or outside players is a little shortsighted IMO..