2012 draft

[Ramper]

Sorry mixed him up with Corr, this whole thing's doing my head in.

Though having said that not sure we should be using a top 10 pick on a player from a Division 2 state unless they're an absolute standout/undeniable freak, when there's similar types from Division 1 states around them. (yes there've been exceptions but it's more often the rule than not)

This stuff about Corr or Lonergan at 9, dear oh dear, if that happens we may as well shut the joint and go watch rugby league. Seriously if our recruiters pick Corr or Lonergan at 9 they have lost the plot with their software and cant see the forest from the trees.

 

[Toadvine]

Sorry mixed him up with Corr, this whole thing's doing my head in.

Though having said that not sure we should be using a top 10 pick on a player from a Division 2 state unless they're an absolute standout/undeniable freak, when there's similar types from Division 1 states around them. (yes there've been exceptions but it's more often the rule than not)

Lonergan was injured for the majority of the champs. I'm of the opinion that it would be harder to play at your best in a DIV 2 team as your teammates aren't of the standard of the your opposition DIV 1 teams.

As I've mentioned before I'm of the opinion that there is not much between he and Vlastuin and he still possesses considerable upside.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Lonergan..happy to take him..

 

[Ramper]

Lonergan..happy to take him..

No thanks unless its at 32 or 34. Taking him at 9 is a waste of a great pick. The same with Corr. A big issue for me with Lonergan is that for Tassie he played against Division 2 teams. Tambling was supposed to be a superstar but alas never made it. We should go for a kid who has played well against the best kids not someone who beat players from a lesser level.

 

[UpTheGuts]

So many (most?) of these kids have injury issues.

I would have expected Lonergan to get more touches in Div 2.

But yeah, I have draft fatigue. Just bring it

 

[_RT_]

9. Vlastuin or Lonergan
32 & 34. 2 of Atkins Pongracic Dick Graham
43. Thurlow or Temay or one of the above 4 who slides.

That will do me Thursday night.

 

[MR]

9. Vlastuin or Lonergan
32 & 34. 2 of Atkins Pongracic Dick Graham
43. Thurlow or Temay or one of the above 4 who slides.

That will do me Thursday night.

My ideal (but realistic) draft:
9: Menzel
32: Pongracic
34: Atkins (Only reason why not at 32 is to piss off the bummers)
43: Best available KPF White/O'Brien

 

[Toadvine]

No thanks unless its at 32 or 34. Taking him at 9 is a waste of a great pick. The same with Corr. A big issue for me with Lonergan is that for Tassie he played against Division 2 teams. Tambling was supposed to be a superstar but alas never made it. We should go for a kid who has played well against the best kids not someone who beat players from a lesser level.

Tassie played against all the Div 1 teams as well you do realise? All the state teams play one another in the champs

This might blow your mind but NT actually beat Vic metro in round 1 of the champs

P.S Tambling never made it because he is/was mentally weak. The fact that he still goes on about being picked before Franklin and how it affects him testifies to this.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Tassie played against all the Div 1 teams as well you do realise? All the state teams play one another in the champs

This might blow your mind but NT actually beat Vic metro in round 1 of the champs

Don't forget QLD also beat WA

 

[Tigerbob]

i know very little about the talent on offer but just wondering if some of the people on our board who are clearly very knowledgeable regarding the draft could let me know this: if Vlastuin is such a great selection, how come those outside our club seem to rate him a lot less? Emma quayle has him at 15th best talent in the draft, and many phantom drafts that have us getting wines, grundy or someone other than Vlastuin have him slipping to 15-20.

Does our club rate him higher than others? Do we Overrate him or simply rate him correctly? Is it a matter of him being more suited to our club or what we desire?

In all fairness, Conca was rated in the mid to late teens and we took him at Pick 6.

I will say this again, those journo's who are "draft experts" don't have the knowledge to make total judgement calls like the recruiting staff do. They serve a purpose, but their advantages come in with discussions and reporting who is interested in who.

In saying all that, I also think Vlastuin would be a slight reach if some players with more talent drop. Which I think will happen. As I have said a number of times, the club have a policy so this will come into it but letting players pass you that have more natural talent is very dangerous. So far, the club have the right to be trusted. The drafting has been good and the system seems to be working.

 

[LeatherPoison]

not picking Lonergan because "he played in div 2" is an absolute cop out & is exactly what a mediocre recruiter would do !!!

in my opinion Lonergan has HUGE upside, he looks a little overweight so he could drop a few kg's (no big deal), he is a year younger than most of the draftees(so has even more development in him) , he has been playing senior footy since he was 15, his speed is incredible for a guy his size, he looks the goods to me

plus, when has richmond gone wrong drafting a tasmanian ?? (hart,roach,gale,richo,riewoldt)

 

[nugget_12]

not picking Lonergan because "he played in div 2" is an absolute cop out & is exactly what a mediocre recruiter would do !!!

in my opinion Lonergan has HUGE upside, he looks a little overweight so he could drop a few kg's (no big deal), he is a year younger than most of the draftees(so has even more development in him) , he has been playing senior footy since he was 15, his speed is incredible for a guy his size, he looks the goods to me

plus, when has richmond gone wrong drafting a tasmanian ?? (hart,roach,gale,richo,riewoldt)

Alex Gilmore was a tassie bust!

 

[LeatherPoison]

Alex Gilmore was a tassie bust!

Dang it !! LOL .... AND SHHHHHH you're ruining my whole argument

 

[nugget_12]

Dang it !! LOL .... AND SHHHHHH you're ruining my whole argument

Lol sorry mate! Your reasoning still holds up though! He's 1 bust out of many success stories

 

[Richo83]

I don't know if this chatter about Lonergan is due to Quigley but lets not forget that every year, he puts a division 2 player in these, and most of the time, they never get picked in the top ten. Now while he has gotten a few division 2 players right, generally they're taken later and passed up by most if not all in the top ten. I'm not saying that Lonergan isn't quality but lets be careful in our judgements here.

 

[LeatherPoison]

I don't know if this chatter about Lonergan is due to Quigley but lets not forget that every year, he puts a division 2 player in these, and most of the time, they never get picked in the top ten. Now while he has gotten a few division 2 players right, generally they're taken later and passed up by most if not all in the top ten. I'm not saying that Lonergan isn't quality but lets be careful in our judgements here.

i dont see why it matters that he or anyone for that matter played div 2 or not in the championships

 

[Ramper]

The arguments about Division 2 teams and those supporting a lonergan selection at 9 is real interesting but what are the facts.

NAB 2012 Championships

Round 1 - South Australia 30 14 194 d Tasmania 7 8 50 (I dont think Lonergan played)
Round 2 - Vic Metro 21 11 137 d Tasmania 6 5 41 (I dont think Lonergan played)
Round 3 - Tasmania 9 7 61 d Queensland 6 17 53 (Lonergan played and wasnt listed in bests from what I know)
Round 4 - Tasmania 14 7 91 d NSW 6 14 50 (Lonergan only had 15 possessions)
Round 5 - NT 9 9 63 d Tasmania 5 9 39 (Lonergan listed as 6th best Tasmanian with 15 possessions)

Now if you guys reckon that 15 possessions agains Tasmania and Northern Territory is worth selection 9 then god help us all. Lonergan is a good kid but he isnt worth pick 9. And as for Division 1 teams well the truth is South Australia and Victoria Metro slaughtered them at the championships.

Thats the facts guys.

 

[LeatherPoison]

The arguments about Division 2 teams and those supporting a lonergan selection at 9 is real interesting but what are the facts.

NAB 2012 Championships

Round 1 - South Australia 30 14 194 d Tasmania 7 8 50 (I dont think Lonergan played)
Round 2 - Vic Metro 21 11 137 d Tasmania 6 5 41 (I dont think Lonergan played)
Round 3 - Tasmania 9 7 61 d Queensland 6 17 53 (Lonergan played and wasnt listed in bests from what I know)
Round 4 - Tasmania 14 7 91 d NSW 6 14 50 (Lonergan only had 15 possessions)
Round 5 - NT 9 9 63 d Tasmania 5 9 39 (Lonergan listed as 6th best Tasmanian with 15 possessions)

Now if you guys reckon that 15 possessions agains Tasmania and Northern Territory is worth selection 9 then god help us all. Lonergan is a good kid but he isnt worth pick 9. And as for Division 1 teams well the truth is South Australia and Victoria Metro slaughtered them at the championships.

Thats the facts guys.

you cant base an argument on 2 games

 

[Ramper]

you cant base an argument on 2 games

The facts are the facts. Tasmania got slaughtered by the D1 teams and in 3 games against the weaker teams Lonergan couldnt even get to 20 possessions. What more is their to say it is what it is. He's a good young kid and Id be happy to have him at Richmond for pick32 but he isnt worth pick 9 at this stage. Maybe in time he will be a really high quality 25possession plus player and I hope he makes it happen.

 

[LeatherPoison]

The facts are the facts. Tasmania got slaughtered by the D1 teams and in 3 games against the weaker teams Lonergan couldnt even get to 20 possessions. What more is their to say it is what it is. He's a good young kid and Id be happy to have him at Richmond for pick32 but he isnt worth pick 9 at this stage. Maybe in time he will be a really high quality 25possession plus player and I hope he makes it happen.

fact - jesse was injured for the first 3 games of the champs (therefor was obviously not fit enough during the last 3, so you cant judge a kid solely on how he performed during those 3 games)

fact - jesse was only 17 throughout the championships, so is 10-12 months behind in development

you are showing me STATS from 3 games as argument, show me jesse's last 40 games of football, study all of them very closely, then put everything into context (pre seasons,injuries,opposition,travel,school,family) then come back to me

 

[blaisee]

really like this lonergan

one thing he has going for him is that he is a genuine inside midfielder

 

[Toadvine]

In 4 out of the 5 championship games Vlastuin had 16 possessions or less. He had one game with more which was against Tasmania with 28 touches

 

[TJTIGER]

really like this lonergan

one thing he has going for him is that he is a genuine inside midfielder

Is there anyone out there who has had a chance to watch Jesse play more than just one or two games ?? and can offer an opinion of him as a player ? I hear he has been playing against men since he was 15.

 

[TJTIGER]

In 4 out of the 5 championship games Vlastuin had 16 possessions or less. He had one game with more which was against Tasmania with 28 touches

Do you know Toadvine if he was playing against lonergan that match ? If so how did the match up go ?

 

[blaisee]

Is there anyone out there who has had a chance to watch Jesse play more than just one or two games ?? and can offer an opinion of him as a player ? I hear he has been playing against men since he was 15.

big bodied explosive inside ball magnet who has improved his kicking out of site, and can go forward and kick goals, one of the youngest players in the draft pool. dominated in tasmania which makes his ability hard to gauge