2017 Rising Star Discussion

[Love the Drake]

My mistake, I assumed Curnow was still playing the third tall role.

Casboult FF and Charlie CHF. Silvagni is our third tall.

Can I just say what a winner you've got with McGrath. Such a smart, skilled player with great decision making iq. Already one of my favourite non-blues players.

I still think it's down to burton and McGrath with burton slightly in front, but not writing off Charlie as the judges love a big forward.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Casboult FF and Charlie CHF. Silvagni is our third tall.

Can I just say what a winner you've got with McGrath. Such a smart, skilled player with great decision making iq. Already one of my favourite non-blues players.

I still think it's down to burton and McGrath with burton slightly in front, but not writing off Charlie as the judges love a big forward.

Yeah I'm really happy with McGrath, was skeptical of the pick at first because I was unsure if he was what we really needed but he's slotted in perfectly. I was hoping we'd take somebody like SPS, and he's been fantastic to watch this year as well for you guys. Looking like a very good draft pool already. Same with the draft before last; was very interested in Charlie Curnow at pick 6 over Francis and it's good to see he's come along as well. Very smart forward

 

[carnthedons]

Yeah....Hodgey is a really crap defender.

2017 Hodge isn't what he used to be

 

[blues4flag]

That's not the point & you know it.

We're talking about a bloke operating at near elite levels across the entire year, in comparison to the other 3, who have been above average.

So you'll agree then that Curnow is clearly the better player at the moment, and is playing elite footy?

If an average of 82 and a +10 differential makes Burton near elite, then surely an average of 96 over 9 weeks and a +14 differential over Burton puts Charlie well and truly into the elite category.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Sure....But once again....It's about a consistent output across the entirety of a season....Curnow has only raised his hand in the second half of the season.

Once again: The award is for the best player across the entirety of 2017....And Burton has been Mr consistency, operating at a higher level to the 3 others, across that length....No forward has had the better of him, nor taken him to the cleaners....The SC average of Burton in comparison to the other 3 is a damning stat.

He is just below elite level....The other 3 are above average.....Therein lies the rub.

What a load of utter horse shit.

McGrath had been just as consistent, and he and Curnow at least are every bit as "just below elite" as Burton is.

You've invested so much in this award I'm a bit concerned how you'll deal with it if Burton doesn't win.

But either way, we'll find out in a week and a half so your definitive assertions might be ill advised

 

[Procrastinator35]

So you'll agree then that Curnow is clearly the better player at the moment, and is playing elite footy?

If an average of 82 and a +10 differential makes Burton near elite, then surely an average of 96 over 9 weeks and a +14 differential over Burton puts Charlie well and truly into the elite category.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Sure....His second half of the season has been the best of all 4, which is why he's in the convo....But he is 4th overall, from a full-season perspective.....Why?....Because his first half was below average. Whereas Burton has been near elite all year.

 

[Mr_Plow]

So you'll agree then that Curnow is clearly the better player at the moment, and is playing elite footy?

If an average of 82 and a +10 differential makes Burton near elite, then surely an average of 96 over 9 weeks and a +14 differential over Burton puts Charlie well and truly into the elite category.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

17-18 AFL player rating points for Charlie last night.
He's on some sort of run.

Not even sure that after 9 games averaging more than 15 that one can call it a run.

It's an established standard.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I don't understand why the word "elite" is being used in this thread because nobody in the Rising Star discussion could possibly be considered elite unless you were a chronic hyperbolist.

 

[Procrastinator35]

What a load of utter horse shit.

McGrath had been just as consistent, and he and Curnow at least are every bit as "just below elite" as Burton is.

You've invested so much in this award I'm a bit concerned how you'll deal with it if Burton doesn't win.

But either way, we'll find out in a week and a half so your definitive assertions might be ill advised

2017 Season Stats Comparisons:

Ryan Burton.........Games 20....Disposals 426....Kicks 268....Handballs 158....Marks 114....Tackles 58....SC Ave: 84.4
Andrew McGrath...Games 19.....Disposals 372....Kicks 166...Handballs 206....Marks 76......Tackles 53....SC Ave: 71.2
Sam Powell-Pep....Games 20....Disposals 340....Kicks 163....Handballs 177....Marks 53......Tackles 99...SC Ave: 70.0
Charlie Curnow.....Games 20....Disposals 286....Kicks 197....Handballs 89......Marks 117....Tackles 61...SC Ave: 72.4

Sorry Lance.....But as the stats above prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, McGrath has not been as consistent, to the same elite level as Burton, across the season.

54 less disposals....102 less kicks....38 less marks....For an overall season's total of a 13.2 average differential in SC.

Burton is on another level entirely to all the other 3.....Which means that your post above, is in fact 'A load of utter horse-shite'.

 

[PostPaolo]

2017 Season Stats Comparisons:

Ryan Burton.........Games 20....Disposals 426....Kicks 268....Handballs 158....Marks 114....Tackles 58....SC Ave: 84.4
Andrew McGrath...Games 19.....Disposals 372....Kicks 166...Handballs 206....Marks 76......Tackles 53....SC Ave: 71.2
Sam Powell-Pep....Games 20....Disposals 340....Kicks 163....Handballs 177....Marks 53......Tackles 99...SC Ave: 70.0
Charlie Curnow.....Games 20....Disposals 286....Kicks 197....Handballs 89......Marks 117....Tackles 61...SC Ave: 72.4

Sorry Lance.....But as the stats above prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, McGrath has not been as consistent, to the same elite level as Burton, across the season.

54 less disposals....102 less kicks....38 less marks....For an overall season's total of a 13.2 average differential in SC.

Burton is on another level entirely to all the other 3.....Which means that your post above, is in fact 'A load of utter horse-shite'.

Oh no, not the Supercoach points

 

[Love the Drake]

What a load of utter horse shit.

McGrath had been just as consistent, and he and Curnow at least are every bit as "just below elite" as Burton is.

You've invested so much in this award I'm a bit concerned how you'll deal with it if Burton doesn't win.

But either way, we'll find out in a week and a half so your definitive assertions might be ill advised

Well said. Burton winning this award is life and death for 'the 'nator.

Roll out the straight jacket and dummy if burton loses.

 

[jake_h03]

So you'll agree then that Curnow is clearly the better player at the moment, and is playing elite footy?

If an average of 82 and a +10 differential makes Burton near elite, then surely an average of 96 over 9 weeks and a +14 differential over Burton puts Charlie well and truly into the elite category.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Lol. Ummm errr ahhhh......

2017 Season Stats Comparisons:

Ryan Burton.........Games 20....Disposals 426....Kicks 268....Handballs 158....Marks 114....Tackles 58....SC Ave: 84.4
Andrew McGrath...Games 19.....Disposals 372....Kicks 166...Handballs 206....Marks 76......Tackles 53....SC Ave: 71.2
Sam Powell-Pep....Games 20....Disposals 340....Kicks 163....Handballs 177....Marks 53......Tackles 99...SC Ave: 70.0
Charlie Curnow.....Games 20....Disposals 286....Kicks 197....Handballs 89......Marks 117....Tackles 61...SC Ave: 72.4

Sorry Lance.....But as the stats above prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, McGrath has not been as consistent, to the same elite level as Burton, across the season.

54 less disposals....102 less kicks....38 less marks....For an overall season's total of a 13.2 average differential in SC.

Burton is on another level entirely to all the other 3.....Which means that your post above, is in fact 'A load of utter horse-shite'.

Stats do not prove anything 'beyond a shadow of doubt'
If you really believe Burton having more disposals and supercoach points than McGrath proves he has had a better season, you simply don't understand football. Don't mean to have a go at you personally, but that logic is just ridiculous

 

[Lance Uppercut]

2017 Season Stats Comparisons:

Ryan Burton.........Games 20....Disposals 426....Kicks 268....Handballs 158....Marks 114....Tackles 58....SC Ave: 84.4
Andrew McGrath...Games 19.....Disposals 372....Kicks 166...Handballs 206....Marks 76......Tackles 53....SC Ave: 71.2
Sam Powell-Pep....Games 20....Disposals 340....Kicks 163....Handballs 177....Marks 53......Tackles 99...SC Ave: 70.0
Charlie Curnow.....Games 20....Disposals 286....Kicks 197....Handballs 89......Marks 117....Tackles 61...SC Ave: 72.4

Sorry Lance.....But as the stats above prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, McGrath has not been as consistent, to the same elite level as Burton, across the season.

54 less disposals....102 less kicks....38 less marks....For an overall season's total of a 13.2 average differential in SC.

Burton is on another level entirely to all the other 3.....Which means that your post above, is in fact 'A load of utter horse-shite'.

How in gods name you can think totals can in any way indicate consistency is just mind blowing. Do you even understand the concept??

As for if he's been better or not, I guess we'll see won't we? You and I are both too biased so our opinions are virtually irrelevant

 

[jake_h03]

I don't understand why the word "elite" is being used in this thread because nobody in the Rising Star discussion could possibly be considered elite unless you were a chronic hyperbolist.

Thank you! The voice of reason. None of the rising stars are even close to elite. They're not even A-grade yet

 

[Love the Drake]

2017 Season Stats Comparisons:

Ryan Burton.........Games 20....Disposals 426....Kicks 268....Handballs 158....Marks 114....Tackles 58....SC Ave: 84.4
Andrew McGrath...Games 19.....Disposals 372....Kicks 166...Handballs 206....Marks 76......Tackles 53....SC Ave: 71.2
Sam Powell-Pep....Games 20....Disposals 340....Kicks 163....Handballs 177....Marks 53......Tackles 99...SC Ave: 70.0
Charlie Curnow.....Games 20....Disposals 286....Kicks 197....Handballs 89......Marks 117....Tackles 61...SC Ave: 72.4

Sorry Lance.....But as the stats above prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, McGrath has not been as consistent, to the same elite level as Burton, across the season.

54 less disposals....102 less kicks....38 less marks....For an overall season's total of a 13.2 average differential in SC.

Burton is on another level entirely to all the other 3.....Which means that your post above, is in fact 'A load of utter horse-shite'.

Where's the contested possessions 'nator?
You are very quick to roll out stats to suit your argument, but conveniently continually fail to post the contested stats. Could there be a reason for that?

Show me contested possessions/marks and I'll show you the RS winner..

 

[F_therest]

The Rising Star winner will probably be out of Burton and McGrath for their consistency throughout the year...they've been solid down back.

But out of the top group of guys Charlie Curnow looks like he has the most 'star' qualities and the potential to be elite.
Much easier to have a solid season in defence as a young player and rack up the stats that Procastinator35 posted than it is as a young tall forward.

 

[F_therest]

Pickett a big chance to win this round's Rising Star Nomination i reckon which would make it 6 for Carlton this year!
Would be pretty incredible to have over a quarter of all nominations from one club.

 

[Love the Drake]

Where's the contested possessions 'nator?
You are very quick to roll out stats to suit your argument, but conveniently continually fail to post the contested stats. Could there be a reason for that?

Show me contested possessions/marks and I'll show you the RS winner..

Come on 'nator. You can't go quiet on us now, after you've invested so much in this thread. Where's those stats I keep asking for?

 

[jake_h03]

Pickett a big chance to win this round's Rising Star Nomination i reckon which would make it 6 for Carlton this year!
Would be pretty incredible to have over a quarter of all nominations from one club.

Yep, probably deserve it on this week in isolation, but I reckon Ainsworth might get for his 3 goal game, I think he was very unlucky not to get one for his 4 goal game a few weeks ago

 

[F_therest]

Yep, probably deserve it on this week in isolation, but I reckon Ainsworth might get for his 3 goal game, I think he was very unlucky not to get one for his 4 goal game a few weeks ago

Didn't watch the GC game so can't comment on who had the bigger impact out of Ainsworth or Pickett.

Pickett has had a pretty good few weeks leading up to this game as well though and influenced the contest much more than just his 2 goals.

 

[jake_h03]

Didn't watch the GC game so can't comment on who had the bigger impact out of Ainsworth or Pickett.

Pickett has had a pretty good few weeks leading up to this game as well though and influenced the contest much more than just his 2 goals.

No I completely agree, I think Pickett was easily the most influential this week, just not sure if they'll feel Ainsworth was already half way there after his 4 goal game and feel like he deserves one for another good game. Either way, rapt to see Pickett start to show signs of fulfilling his huge potential. Could be a real bonus for us, first round draft talent that we got for next to nothing

 

[Espio]

Truly bizarre that Curnow is being spoken about as third or fourth.

I honestly have massive respect for Burton McGrath and SPP, they will all be very good to great players, Charlie on the other hand is potentially generational.

We can all roll our stats to support our favoured scenario, but for those who have actually watched Curnow is the very definition of a "Rising Star".

Bias yes, happy to acknowledge that, but I have not seen a better and more complete young talent in eons, I would expect those that are burdened with the responsibility of judging this award would do more than look at a couple of stats and would actually apply the eye test. In which case Curnow is in this up to his ears.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Cynic]

Truly bizarre that Curnow is being spoken about as third or fourth.

I honestly have massive respect for Burton McGrath and SPP, they will all be very good to great players, Charlie on the other hand is potentially generational.

We can all roll our stats to support our favoured scenario, but for those who have actually watched Curnow is the very definition of a "Rising Star".

Bias yes, happy to acknowledge that, but I have not seen a better and more complete young talent in eons, I would expect those that are burdened with the responsibility of judging this award would do more than look at a couple of stats and would actually apply the eye test. In which case Curnow is in this up to his ears.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't think anyone is arguing that Burton, SPP or McGrath are better propositions for players long term than Curnow; it's just that the award is based upon the full year rather than star capability (see Bontempelli v Taylor).

 

[Espio]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Burton, SPP or McGrath are better propositions for players long term than Curnow; it's just that the award is based upon the full year rather than star capability (see Bontempelli v Taylor).

The award is for the "standout young player".

Of this group, based on that definition, it is difficult to argue Curnow is not right in it.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[blues4flag]

Lol. Ummm errr ahhhh......


Stats do not prove anything 'beyond a shadow of doubt'
If you really believe Burton having more disposals and supercoach points than McGrath proves he has had a better season, you simply don't understand football. Don't mean to have a go at you personally, but that logic is just ridiculous

Of course Charlie isn't elite. Just pointing out how absurd it is claiming an average of 82 Supercoach points makes Burton near elite. If 82 makes Burton near elite, then 96 makes Charlie elite.