Traded 2018 Live Trade: Carlton trade #4 (2019) to Adelaide for #19 (2018) and #9 (2019)

[Drewie11]

Pick 40 went to the Swans. The Crows also gave another pick to Carlton.

Just do what you did with the above deal. Add up all the Crows received (McAdam & 1212 points), minus all they put in (McGovern & picks 40 & 54, circa 650 points) - that’s McGovern out for McAdam and about 562 points (pick 33-ish) in.

I know. It doesn’t sound right, does it? But they’re the facts. Sometimes points are a useful guide, sometimes in isolation, they’re downright misleading.

Why are we talking about the McGovern trade? That has players and it has something that is completed with players and trades. We can actually judge that one

I am talking about the only way we are able to judge this trade at the moment is by points.Even after this year we cannot judge this until Adelaides uses the GWS pick. We will be close to judging it as Adelaide will have a player at 6 and Carlton will have a player at 9 and Stocker. So for now we can only use the points system and with the GWS trade the points are in favour of Adelaide

 

[Monkey King]

Why are we talking about the McGovern trade?

I am talking about the only way we are able to judge this trade at the moment is by points.

Sometimes points are not at all reflective of a trade; the McGovern trade is an obvious and relatable example of this. Points say the Crows netted McAdam and pick circa pick 35. Sorry that you didn’t know this.

1) I’ve just demonstrated how limiting a perspective is that relies solely on the points system

2) This whole trade centred around a specific player who one club thought belied his points value

3) You don’t even have an accurate points value; GWS’ pick could well wind up 25+ next year after NGA bids

Simply repeating that this is “the only way” doesn’t addresses any of the obvious flaws inherent in your thinking.

 

[TheKITC]

Trade just keeps growing legs...

One of the most complicated, convoluted and interesting set of circumstances have been triggered by this trade and then the subsequent trade and machinations.

Wow.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Trade just keeps growing legs...

One of the most complicated, convoluted and interesting set of circumstances have been triggered by this trade and then the subsequent trade and machinations.

Wow.

For Carlton it looks something like
4 (Ash) > 17 (Kemp), 19 (Stocker), 20 (Philp)

For the Crows it’s
9 (Henry) , 19 (Stocker) > 6 (McAsey), (12-25?)

Both clubs would be really happy right now. I certainly am. This thread is much better when there’s a winner and loser though

 

[Jimbojay]

For Carlton it looks something like
4 (Ash) > 17 (Kemp), 19 (Stocker), 20 (Philp)

For the Crows it’s
9 (Henry) , 19 (Stocker) > 6 (McAsey), (12-25?)

Both clubs would be really happy right now. I certainly am. This thread is much better when there’s a winner and loser though

It does honestly seem like both Blues and Crows are winners from the trade atm

Giants not losers either as they end up with Ash on top of Green

 

[LordLucifer]

I think most people in this thread have their heads fair & square up their backsides.

Why does there have to be a winner and a loser in this trade ??

The best position in every business deal is that it is a win-win scenario, in this situation, if both clubs come out of it in a stronger position and are pleased with the outcome then that is an ideal eventuality.

 

[Belnakor]

SOS is just lucky Carlton won a few games and Adelaide didn’t. Maybe he knew along? Certainly likes a punt.

 

[Monkey King]

SOS is just lucky Carlton won a few games and Adelaide didn’t. Maybe he knew along? Certainly likes a punt.

Or unlucky that Bolton wasn’t able to get the best out of the players like Teague was.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I think most people in this thread have their heads fair & square up their backsides.

Why does there have to be a winner and a loser in this trade ??

The best position in every business deal is that it is a win-win scenario, in this situation, if both clubs come out of it in a stronger position and are pleased with the outcome then that is an ideal eventuality.

Exactly, which is where the good clubs like Geelong & Hawks have been for a while, finally we have got to a poisition where we dont need to ‘win’ a trade for it to be considered successful... I wonder how much longer Dodo and the boys from Napier St will take to realise this..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

SOS is just lucky Carlton won a few games and Adelaide didn’t. Maybe he knew along? Certainly likes a punt.

How is this lucky... Both clubs prob finished just about where the other predicted.. Blues expected to win more games under Bolton than we did..

 

[Love the Drake]

Most complicated trade in the history of the game.

Pretty clear from the Adelaide fans and non-Carlton fans that Adelaide have clearly won this trade. SOS is a dud and knows nothing about identifying young talent.

I mean blind Freddie can see that Adelaide’s pick 6 this year (McAsey) and Adelaide’s 2020 first round pick they get from GWS will be absolute guns and multiple AA’s. Whereas Stocker, Kemp and Philp are duds who will be lucky to play 10 average games between them.

So depressed..

 

[carlton2dabone]

not gonna claim which team was a winner in this trade, except to say:

for what became pick 6 this year, we turned it into pick 17 and 20 PLUS pick 19 last year.

so effectively we traded out a pick 6 for 3 top 20 selections over a 2 year period!

winner or not, if any list manager at any club had of made that deal, their supporters would be jumping over the moon with satisfaction.

 

[Golumless]

Or unlucky that Bolton wasn’t able to get the best out of the players like Teague was.

I wouldn't call that unlucky, just lacking any sense of reality if you were gambling on it (there was enough evidence to say that was beyond Bolton).

Unless SOS was gunning for Boltons head, and thought it'd happen earlier in the piece.

 

[Golumless]

Most complicated trade in the history of the game.

Pretty clear from the Adelaide fans and non-Carlton fans that Adelaide have clearly won this trade. SOS is a dud and knows nothing about identifying young talent.

I mean blind Freddie can see that Adelaide’s pick 6 this year (McAsey) and Adelaide’s 2020 first round pick they get from GWS will be absolute guns and multiple AA’s. Whereas Stocker, Kemp and Philp are duds who will be lucky to play 10 average games between them.

So depressed..

Turn that frown upside down, there are no losers from this deal.

Unfortunately.

 

[Robertio]

Turn that frown upside down, there are no losers from this deal.

Unfortunately.

Exactly.

 

[BluesRule]

Can somebody just add up the points and tell us who won? No as Adelaide have a 2020 pick. Lets revisit next year...

 

[Monkey King]

I wouldn't call that unlucky, just lacking any sense of reality if you were gambling on it (there was enough evidence to say that was beyond Bolton).

I wouldn’t call the Crows losing games lucky either then; there was enough evidence the club was in disarray.

 

[Golumless]

I wouldn’t call the Crows losing games lucky either then; there was enough evidence the club was in disarray.

I wouldn't either, and looking back, there were certainly enough red flags to suggest that.

 

[FyfeToAdelaide]

Can somebody just add up the points and tell us who won? No as Adelaide have a 2020 pick. Lets revisit next year...

We may trade that pick next year for future picks and the saga will continue

 

[Sector 7G]

We may trade that pick next year for future picks and the saga will continue

Do Carlton get 2 picks back?

Ned to swap first rounders again

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Can somebody just add up the points and tell us who won? No as Adelaide have a 2020 pick. Lets revisit next year...

The actual trade
4 (2034 points) > 9+19 (2417)

Carlton’s POV
4 (2034) > 17+19+20 (2885)

Adelaides POV
6+GWS 1st (2736-4751) > 9+19 (2417)

From Adelaide’s POV, GWS’ first would have to blow out to 29 for them to “lose” the trade. A conservative guess of pick 16 would see them up by around 400 points.

IMO points mean squat anyway, but it’s the only tool we really have until hindsight.

 

[lozstar]

It's a win win

 

[richoatthedisco]

Or unlucky that Bolton was forced to play kids and wasn’t able to pick teams older on average than their opponents like Teague was.

On the trade, fair to say Carlton would probably have taken Stephens or Young with pick 4? So, Stephens/Young and a late pick for Stocker, Kemp and Philp.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Tigers taking their sweet ass time again did they not have a list of potential draftees?

 

[Monkey King]

On the trade, fair to say Carlton would probably have taken Stephens or Young with pick 4? So, Stephens/Young and a late pick for Stocker, Kemp and Philp.

Interesting story. Who didn’t allow Bolton to do that? As I understand it, assistant coaches suggested he to make similar changes but he stuck to his guns. It wasn’t so much the age of the team that changed under Teague, but where on the field players of certain ages played.

I think that’s a fair summary. Though if Carlton only take 3 players at the draft then it’s really just Stephens/Young for Stocker, Kemp and Philp. Or who knows, maybe having pick 4 would’ve been too tempting for the Swans and used to get Papley and Martin over the line.