Traded 2018 Live Trade: Carlton trade #4 (2019) to Adelaide for #19 (2018) and #9 (2019)

[Bound For Rory]

They have enough of them. It’s time to back your club in. They can use the pick this year let’s say pick 11 or 12 anyway. Stocker is a solid pick who looks a 150-200 game player. Good enough. He gives them 12 months of development as well.

There are zero guarantees that Rowell or Anderson are going to be elite guns. They are only junior stars a lot of players are that.

Give it 3-4 years and it’s likely to be a win-win trade for both.

I get that but having pick 1-3 as currency helps your side get better.

You can trade that for 2 genuine established players or 1 genuine gun.

Pick 12-14 or whatever gets you 1 established player or no guns.

Getting a guy who is playing but wont be at his peak for many years doesnt help them equally as much.

Theres no guarantee that 1-2-3 will be better than 13-14-15 but the odds say that its very likely they will be.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I get that but having pick 1-3 as currency helps your side get better.

You can trade that for 2 genuine established players or 1 genuine gun.

Pick 12-14 or whatever gets you 1 established player or no guns.

Getting a guy who is playing but wont be at his peak for many years doesnt help them equally as much.

Theres no guarantee that 1-2-3 will be better than 13-14-15 but the odds say that its very likely they will be.

If Stocker develops and gets them 200 odd games they are happy. He’s a nice prospect. Pick 19 last year is closer to pick 7-8 in a normal draft. That draft had early first round talents going in the second round.

Carlton need to win games and they saw the combination of Walsh and Stocker a good fit. I applaud them for saying enough is enough what helps our culture and attracting players is a good culture. To get that you have to win games.

As I said let’s revisit it in 3-4 years no one knows who got the better deal until then. Personally it will be a win-win trade

 

[La Dispute]

Still only 8 games into a very open season.

Way too much hindsight and ‘I told you so’s’ for where either side is at.

 

[Bound For Rory]

If Stocker develops and gets them 200 odd games they are happy. He’s a nice prospect. Pick 19 last year is closer to pick 7-8 in a normal draft. That draft had early first round talents going in the second round.

Carlton need to win games and they saw the combination of Walsh and Stocker a good fit. I applaud them for saying enough is enough what helps our culture and attracting players is a good culture. To get that you have to win games.

As I said let’s revisit it in 3-4 years no one knows who got the better deal until then. Personally it will be a win-win trade

Respect em for having a go, even if they overrated themselves massively.

 

[Bound For Rory]

Still only 8 games into a very open season.

Way too much hindsight and ‘I told you so’s’ for where either side is at.

Assuming GWS beat you this week, you'll be a game behind 17th and 2 games behind 16th with North and Sydney playing each other.
I get that its not even half way, but you gotta say thats not the start you would've been after.

 

[philthy05]

Our depth is why we won on Saturday night.
We didnt have to bring in guys like Aiden Johnson and Kane Farrell who provides next to nothing.

Port had heaps of better performing players than Johnson to bring in.

Hinkley thought he was outfoxing pyke and played into his hands.

 

[Bound For Rory]

Port had heaps of better performing players than Johnson to bring in.

Hinkley thought he was outfoxing pyke and played into his hands.

Who were these 'heaps of better performing players'?
Looking at the stats from the week before... Trengove is the only player that maybe should've come in and didnt?

 

[Jeremias]

Why has this become about Port vs Adelaide?

Take it elsewhere thanks.

 

[philthy05]

Why has this become about Port vs Adelaide?

Take it elsewhere thanks.

Because he made it about port in a comment that was clearly wrong.

 

[philthy05]

Who were these 'heaps of better performing players'?
Looking at the stats from the week before... Trengove is the only player that maybe should've come in and didnt?

Garner Mayes atley Frampton for starters.

I’m not even sure what you’re debating.

 

[Bound For Rory]

Garner Mayes atley Frampton for starters.

I’m not even sure what you’re debating.

I'm debating you didnt lose becuase of your injuries and that even though yours were to key players, we had a number out too.
Anyway, not the place for that.

 

[philthy05]

I'm debating you didnt lose becuase of your injuries and that even though yours were to key players, we had a number out too.
Anyway, not the place for that.

I never said we lost because of injuries. The crows poster dismissed ports injury list by saying they were missing Seedsman Jacobs etc. anyway it’s devolved into something else for another thread.

 

[La Dispute]

Assuming GWS beat you this week, you'll be a game behind 17th and 2 games behind 16th with North and Sydney playing each other.
I get that its not even half way, but you gotta say thats not the start you would've been after.

I don’t think it matters either way given our overall aim was to bring in Stocker, dropping back a few players in the draft to accommodate this. If the gap is larger than we thought that is less than ideal, but hardly catastrophic.

There is however 2/3rds of a season to play out, and in such an open year with some violent fluctuations in form and already a number of unexpected results the current circumstances are only a gauge.

This is Bigfooty though and every trade needs a winner and loser, but even that is constantly changing.

 

[My name geoff]

Respect em for having a go, even if they overrated themselves massively.

Silvagni rated Stocker the 6th best player in a super draft. What don’t you guys get about this?

Carlton don’t lose because we got the player we wanted, pick numbers are meaningless. If we end up finishing 14th this year as an example, that pick in the 2019 draft will be roughly where SOS rates Stocker. We then get another first rounder for nothing.

 

[Holy Rioli]

As someone objective and has no skin in the game to speak, here is my two cents:

If Carlton can finish 16th or better, they've done well, and the trade becomes a win/win scenario.

If they can't climb out of the bottom 2 and give up Anderson or Rowell as a result, then the trade will have backfired big time.

 

[Bound For Rory]

Silvagni rated Stocker the 6th best player in a super draft. What don’t you guys get about this?

Carlton don’t lose because we got the player we wanted, pick numbers are meaningless. If we end up finishing 14th this year as an example, that pick in the 2019 draft will be roughly where SOS rates Stocker. We then get another first rounder for nothing.

What I dont get about it is why anyone is supposed to care where SOS rated him?
His track record is very poor considering the quality of picks he has had.

So no matter what happens you cant lose?
So if Stocker is rubbish and your pick this year is rubbish and our high pick ends up being a superstar you've still not lost?
It really seems like your club could do anything and you'd defend it?

 

[Tulip]

Silvagni rated Stocker the 6th best player in a super draft. What don’t you guys get about this?

Carlton don’t lose because we got the player we wanted, pick numbers are meaningless. If we end up finishing 14th this year as an example, that pick in the 2019 draft will be roughly where SOS rates Stocker. We then get another first rounder for nothing.

This is classic Carlton. How have you not learned?

 

[La Dispute]

This is classic Carlton. How have you not learned?

I can’t recall there being a precedent given this is the first live trade into the first round in AFL draft history...

 

[Jeremias]

What I dont get about it is why anyone is supposed to care where SOS rated him?

Should we care where others rated him instead?

His track record is very poor considering the quality of picks he has had.

Not at Carlton it isn't.

 

[Tulip]

I can’t recall there being a precedent given this is the first live trade into the first round in AFL draft history...

No, the 'our recruiter rated them here, so we can't lose'.

 

[La Dispute]

No, the 'our recruiter rated them here, so we can't lose'.

Rubbish, this rhetoric used to be used all the time when players were drafted.

Nowadays it’s a cliche because of how self-evident it is, and there’s no real necessity in outlining where a player was rated. The only reason it was revealed was because our recruiters discussed our reason for trading back into the first round with Bolton in our club-released video.

In past years recruiters operated on gut-feel on who would be available at their selections, and made prior trades to accommodate this.

I really can’t see why this is a sticking point.

 

[Sidthehat]

There's a part in Michael Lombardi's Gridiron Genius where he says the hardest thing for General Managers to be is honest about self evaluation and where your team is at. It seems where SOS failed is he had them a year further along their rebuild where he thought they would lift 5/6/7 spots which they could well do next year.

 

[THE_GUN]

There's a part in Michael Lombardi's Gridiron Genius where he says the hardest thing for General Managers to be is honest about self evaluation and where your team is at. It seems where SOS failed is he had them a year further along their rebuild where he thought they would lift 5/6/7 spots which they could well do next year.

This could still happen, They have been playing well and only really bad game was the North Game which they were expected to win

Carlton have a lot of winnable games coming up and i could easily see them doing what Brisbane done last year and get on a roll and win 5 more games and finishing on 24 points with 90%-95% percentage and finish the season 15th/16th

 

[La Dispute]

And conversely Adelaide are in the mix with about 12 teams for a finals spot, but are still a mid-range team leveraging a favourable draw. They aren’t better than a fully fit GWS, West Coast or Richmond.

Still a long way to go in the season.

 

[Bound For Rory]

Should we care where others rated him instead?



Not at Carlton it isn't.

Well we should care as much about where each other recruiter rated them....

Second point is completely yet to be proven. The man had quality picks every single year hes been a recruiter.

Who are the players drafted by SOS who are guaranteed stars?
Cripps yeh ok.

Thats literally it.
Walsh looks great but he was a number 1 pick and no brainer at the time.

The other players have futures which are uncertain.
Guys like SPS, O'Brien, Wietering, Dow etc have all shown bits and pieces, but no guarantee of being a gun.