List Mgmt. 2019 Draft/Trade/FA Thread - Final Wrap

[SandyToes]

I'm happy we made a stand something we should've done with O'Meara back in the day and if Martin came back and played i'd be fine with that but i think we made salary cap decisions with the idea Martin wouldn't be with us. Carlton already have the room for him so if he has a price on his head as those have said then he'll get there.

Yes
I didn't realise that players could set their contract before the PSD as a form of pre-nup- just confirms how little power we have as Clubs
But if Carlton offers him what we can't then that's how it will play out I guess
The stand is well worth it for Carlton's future 2nd and 3rd
In retrospect though if we'd knocked back 15 I might be less sanguine!
The Club would be wary of future picks based on our experience with Brisbane this year too
Carlton makes the 8 we would have been looking at 29-30 and 46-50 -useless
I guess Jack becomes another bedwetter but we've drawn a line in the sand

 

[Sunraysia]

I'm still unclear as to weather Martin can name his own price. According to Maher and and Goddard on the Suns website he can and they think he's unlikely to be at the Suns. Barrett and Wallace said the same thing on the AFL website that he can name his price that Carlton was offering and Melbourne and GC won't draft him because of that. Cameron and SOS didn't mention this though.

Maybe Suns can afford the "price" of a 1 year deal ?? Make an example - let him perform for Suns for a free agency deal (hopefully from West Coast)

 

[Bfett3226]

What is the PSD order?

 

[CanYouFeelTheSunburn]

What a triumphant night for our club. We have demonstrated to those VFL plebs that we will no longer be bent over and paddled anymore. Craig Cameron is what we have been missing. This will be a defining moment in our history and one that will always be remembered. This is the turning point for us.

 

[SandyToes]

Maybe Suns can afford the "price" of a 1 year deal ?? Make an example - let him perform for Suns for a free agency deal (hopefully from West Coast)

Any news on what Brad will be doing next year?

 

[SandyToes]

What is the PSD order?

we have 1 and 2 then Melbourne then Carlton- same as all drafts-goes by reverse ladder position

 

[Sunraysia]

What is the PSD order?

Suns 1 - Melbourne2 - Carlton 3

 

[Jirik13]

But if Carlton offers him what we can't then that's how it will play out I guess

Our cap should be fine when we were able to play for Brad Crouch.

 

[Big Red Machine]

I said this on the Jack Martin thread on the main board but got predictably dogpiled by Carlton numpties.

Gold coast being given picks for nothing is such a bullshit argument. Gold Coast are getting picks because they never got as many as the Giants and were sent out to a non football supporting town to play out of a tin shed. Theyre doing the club correctly this time and that involves getting back some of the talent that left

Occasionally there is a bastion of light, We didn't do ourselves many favours in that period but were always behind the 8 ball from the start. Spot on mate.

But yes, We didn't take the trade at a far lower value because we're proving the point that we refused to be taken advantage of at the trade table like the Victorian feeder club you all think we are.

It's called principle, We're not going to take it anymore.

Jack has two options if we decide we want to take him in the PSD, Either he rots away in the NEAFL for a year and shoots himself in the foot or he shows up and shows out for a good contract year after next. We're more than happy to do it with him or without him. But we're no longer going to be played the fool.

Your point?

The only fool is GCS for passing up ~2000 equivalent draft points. "No use to you?" well you could have used them in other trades, for established players, as your list manager publicly sought out when he declared pick 1 or 2 was on the trading table.

Good luck ever getting another hand out.

What point is that?

That you’d rather get nothing for losing a player than get something for losing him? Great logic haha

Yeah I'm not going to bother arguing with pigeons.

You sit there and look at us with contempt and expect us to just accept whatever pittence you decide to toss our way, It's not happening anymore.

The superiority complex is honestly baffling.

I'm so proud of us, Refusing to sit there and be used and abused like we have in past years just because a player wants out.

 

[2010premier]

The other option is we delist him and allow Carlton to pick him up that way as we can still swap picks just not players. This is far from over

cant do that as every trade has to be graded as “Fair value”. Your suggestion is draft tampering

 

[GcSunsfan]

First 6 minutes or so is all about Martin and what could happen next

Deadline day: 'They might get him anyway' - Real Footy Podcast

Michael Gleeson, Peter Ryan, Sam McClure and Daniel Cherny take you through a hectic deadline day of trade period. Can the Blues pick up Jack Martin, after failing to trade for him in the last week and a bit? What are Joe Daniher's options going forward, after the Bombers and the Swans failed to...

omny.fm

 

[Jirik13]

First 6 minutes or so is all about Martin and what could happen next

Deadline day: 'They might get him anyway' - Real Footy Podcast

Michael Gleeson, Peter Ryan, Sam McClure and Daniel Cherny take you through a hectic deadline day of trade period. Can the Blues pick up Jack Martin, after failing to trade for him in the last week and a bit? What are Joe Daniher's options going forward, after the Bombers and the Swans failed to...

omny.fm

Interestingly, they talk about Carlton's offer to Martin is $700K.

 

[lionraven]

This is such an alpha move by the Suns; minimal loss maximal gain situation.

Blues offering a useless pick in the late 20s to early 30s next season in a heavily compromised draft. That 2020 pick could well blow out to mid 30s to early 40s with all the NGA and Father/Sons. Complete trash given that you already will have 2 1sts and 2 2nds next year anyway and can prelist all your good academy talent as well. List spots are going to be your limiting factor not draft picks. Given that you blokes are offering huge contracts to Adelaide players it would you also have significant cap space.

Here is how the situations could play out.

A) Martin re-signs with the Suns - you have to pay him for a year - he can leave as a FA next year and your compensation at worst would be band 3 which would result in a high second round pick (assuming you finish in the bottom half of the table in 2020). The upside is if you finish poorly and Martin gets a massive contract you could be looking at another pick 1 pick 2 situation.

B) Martin nominates the National Draft
1) He gets taken in the first round by another club (would be funny if it is Carlton with 9) - this would mean the quality of players you get access to with picks 15 and 20 due to Martin getting selected early
2) Martin gets to the second round - you have a whole night to entertain offers from all sorts of clubs trying to get Martin; you could even try and pilfer a first rounder next year for your pick 20. NM might look to give up its two mid second rounders to move up to your pick or maybe Freo could look to trade up to your pick and get Martin back to WA? Worst case scenario - you take Martin at pick 20 and hope the FA compo or trade compo next year is better than 20.
3) I doubt Martin gets past your pick 20; in which case its a free for all and you guys miss out on that useless pick 30 for next year. However, whoever picks up his contract now has to deal with the extra pressure on their cap.

C) Martin nominates the Post Season Draft
1) You take him pick 1 - you pay whatever ridiculous salary he wants. Then you send him to FA the following year. Who knows; changing teammates may mean he gets the love back for the club and decides to stay anyway. Downside - lost cap space (doesnt really matter given the amount of talent you will have on draftee wages for the next couple years) + you guys lose the right to draft someone else in the PSD (aka no one else)
2) You dont take him - Carlton still has to stump up the cash for him. Why would you do this - idiot decision

D) Martin retires - worst scenario as you get nothing for him and Carlton can overpay some players next year with the capspace before signing Martin in 2020 for 2021 - at this point who cares - all you lose is a useless pick 30 in 2020

This is a bold move and a really strong position for the Suns. The loss is just a potential pick 30 in 2020 that you wont be using. The gain could be a potential 2020 first rounder (and potentially an early first rounder) or Martin recommits and becomes a better player. Its a no brainer to not trade with Carlton. Now Carlton has to deal with the flack of trying to sign a player but not using their more than adequate draft resources to achieve this. If I were Martin I would be having firm chats with Carlton about how much they actually value me. I would be also having chats with other clubs as well.

 

[Iva Bigun]

And from on high he looked down at his blue flock and said here’s a bag of dicks, get eating

 

[gcsunsfc]

A lot of bravado in the thread - a lot of it without actually knowing the rules around what can happen from here.

But your post lays out well

Good outcomes
- he re-signs and either stays longer term or goes with fa compensation next year
- we take him in the psd and he either stays long term or goes with fa compensation next year
- we can trade pick 20 in the nd / access for Martin for a better return than Carlton’s future 2nd and future 3rd, because pick trading has to be ticked off as balanced I’m not sure how we’d get much more.

Bad outcomes
- we pick him with pick 20, he goes to fa and next year we get compensation around or worse than pick 20. Net loss and the club that gets him pays zero.
- we don’t take him and another club picks him up for free.
- he effectively retires


Whilst I agree that the Carlton picks wouldn’t have been useful to us, they could always be traded.

Carlton future second and future third - if a team like the bulldogs needs points for next year for juh and they finish top 6 again they may consider swapping their first for the two Carlton picks with a gc 4th rounder thrown in.

This is such an alpha move by the Suns; minimal loss maximal gain situation.

Blues offering a useless pick in the late 20s to early 30s next season in a heavily compromised draft. That 2020 pick could well blow out to mid 30s to early 40s with all the NGA and Father/Sons. Complete trash given that you already will have 2 1sts and 2 2nds next year anyway and can prelist all your good academy talent as well. List spots are going to be your limiting factor not draft picks. Given that you blokes are offering huge contracts to Adelaide players it would you also have significant cap space.

Here is how the situations could play out.

A) Martin re-signs with the Suns - you have to pay him for a year - he can leave as a FA next year and your compensation at worst would be band 3 which would result in a high second round pick (assuming you finish in the bottom half of the table in 2020). The upside is if you finish poorly and Martin gets a massive contract you could be looking at another pick 1 pick 2 situation.

B) Martin nominates the National Draft
1) He gets taken in the first round by another club (would be funny if it is Carlton with 9) - this would mean the quality of players you get access to with picks 15 and 20 due to Martin getting selected early
2) Martin gets to the second round - you have a whole night to entertain offers from all sorts of clubs trying to get Martin; you could even try and pilfer a first rounder next year for your pick 20. NM might look to give up its two mid second rounders to move up to your pick or maybe Freo could look to trade up to your pick and get Martin back to WA? Worst case scenario - you take Martin at pick 20 and hope the FA compo or trade compo next year is better than 20.
3) I doubt Martin gets past your pick 20; in which case its a free for all and you guys miss out on that useless pick 30 for next year. However, whoever picks up his contract now has to deal with the extra pressure on their cap.

C) Martin nominates the Post Season Draft
1) You take him pick 1 - you pay whatever ridiculous salary he wants. Then you send him to FA the following year. Who knows; changing teammates may mean he gets the love back for the club and decides to stay anyway. Downside - lost cap space (doesnt really matter given the amount of talent you will have on draftee wages for the next couple years) + you guys lose the right to draft someone else in the PSD (aka no one else)
2) You dont take him - Carlton still has to stump up the cash for him. Why would you do this - idiot decision

D) Martin retires - worst scenario as you get nothing for him and Carlton can overpay some players next year with the capspace before signing Martin in 2020 for 2021 - at this point who cares - all you lose is a useless pick 30 in 2020

This is a bold move and a really strong position for the Suns. The loss is just a potential pick 30 in 2020 that you wont be using. The gain could be a potential 2020 first rounder (and potentially an early first rounder) or Martin recommits and becomes a better player. Its a no brainer to not trade with Carlton. Now Carlton has to deal with the flack of trying to sign a player but not using their more than adequate draft resources to achieve this. If I were Martin I would be having firm chats with Carlton about how much they actually value me. I would be also having chats with other clubs as well.

First 6 minutes or so is all about Martin and what could happen next

Deadline day: 'They might get him anyway' - Real Footy Podcast

Michael Gleeson, Peter Ryan, Sam McClure and Daniel Cherny take you through a hectic deadline day of trade period. Can the Blues pick up Jack Martin, after failing to trade for him in the last week and a bit? What are Joe Daniher's options going forward, after the Bombers and the Swans failed to...

omny.fm

Good find.
Commemtary from actual respected journalists.
They’re ultimately on our side of this which is good.

They aren’t sure what the AFL will say about us taking him in the draft / psd.

They suggest this would test the afl to determine whether this represents unconscionable conduct, effectively restricting his ability to leave the club. We would have wanted to know what the afl thinks on this before last night...

 

[SUNS]

Look at all of you SUNS fans peacocking and sticking up for our man Bodsy! Brings a happy tear to my eye.

I couldn't give two pieces of crap about if the Blues get him for free from here. We made our point.

#EADSOS

 

[thurls64]

Carlton are being scorched

https://mde.whooshkaa.com/show/9121/episode/446918.mp3

 

[Big Red Machine]

Look at all of you SUNS fans peacocking and sticking up for our man Bodsy! Brings a happy tear to my eye.

I couldn't give two pieces of crap about if the Blues get him for free from here. We made our point.

#EADSOS

100%!

Great post by lionraven laying it all out and good reply by gcsunsfc - The kind of well thought out stuff we like to see - Not that it matters to the utter pigeons that are most CFC numpties throwing the toys out the cot because they expected us to bend over and present our butthole to them as we refused.

One possibility I didn't see much talk about was the possibility of us passing on him in the PSD but him getting scooped up by Melbourne with the pick before Carlton, Yeah we'd still lose him but at this point our point has been made and Carlton still doesn't get him which is hilarious to me

 

[Happy Idiot]

No one knows yet, but I wonder if the AFL is quietly pleased about this? The ridiculous situation where contracted and uncontracted players can just move around, almost at will, is a creation of the AFLPA.

I'm guessing the AFL will be involved in any decisions we make going forward, but I wouldn't be surprised if they give Cameron a little high-five on the sly.

 

[Stroppy]

It is a win that the Club made a point that if we don't get back something of value to us, we won't do the deal.

Other clubs would have taken the future 2nd+3rd, but those picks have a lot less value for us than other clubs and we said all along we wanted a first (or an improved first) or no deal.

Good.

But in the cold hard light of day, don't think there are any other clear wins out of the Martin non-trade. Gets messy all around from here, most of all for Jack. What a shocker to cop on a holiday. Enjoy the sandwich and drink Jack. The filling is s&&t and someone urinated in the beer.

 

[thurls64]

nothing too exciting in the delistings for players we can pick up in the PSD is there?

 

[Young_Guns]

Meh, not too disappointed if we lose Martin for free.
I’m sure Martin and his manager are thrilled that he is currently in limbo without a team.
A future second and third is chump change. We already have enough next year to trade up if we want or package picks for a player.
Clubs know now that we are not bending over to please them anymore and should help us against teams that get deals done (unfortunately our hands were tied dealing with the genius that is SOS).
If the only way for Martin to get to Carlton now is to offer him 700k with the talent they’ve got coming through that they’ll need to pay then sure we got duped.
Will be interesting to see how teams approach Carlton next year

 

[CommittedSuns]

Now that I have slept and can take it all in the only thing I hate more than people not indicating when driving is muppets coming onto our board and having a go.

Great job Cameron and the Suns for getting some backbone. Stuff the bluebaggers and give Bodsy back his points so we can get his true thoughts

 

[thurls64]

Silvagni explains Blues situation following botched trade period

“Obviously Jack’s an uncontracted player so we still have an avenue."

www.sen.com.au

 

[robo_1]

With still being able to trade picks could Carlton swap 9 and future second for 15 like we offered then we delist Martin and they pick him up as delisted free agent