Training 2019 Preseason

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I want better ball movement. Richo has been obsessed with pressure and tackling since he got here and it has taken us nowhere.

Any old coach can teach a bunch of professional athletes to tackle and defend.... we need our coaches teaching them and planning how to move the ball through heavy floods and pressure.

We get absolutely murdered by teams that know what our weaknesses are and defend accordingly and have done for years.

Until I see better ball movement, I won’t be getting excited about our prospects. I worry that we are hearing a lot about tackling this pre-season as if that was identified as a major issue for us.

Our issue since the start of the rebuild is executing skills under pressure and if we don’t fix that, we are going nowhere.

I want some hypnosis, focusing on kicking the balls between the big sticks...
 
I want better ball movement. Richo has been obsessed with pressure and tackling since he got here and it has taken us nowhere.

Any old coach can teach a bunch of professional athletes to tackle and defend.... we need our coaches teaching them and planning how to move the ball through heavy floods and pressure.

We get absolutely murdered by teams that know what our weaknesses are and defend accordingly and have done for years.

Until I see better ball movement, I won’t be getting excited about our prospects. I worry that we are hearing a lot about tackling this pre-season as if that was identified as a major issue for us that stopped us winning games last year. I don’t buy it. Tackling is/should be a given.

Our issue since the start of the rebuild is executing skills under pressure and if we don’t fix that, we are going nowhere.
Well said as always Narks

Hope they've save some time for skills development and kicking for GOOOOAAAAALLLLSSS!
 

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I want better ball movement. Richo has been obsessed with pressure and tackling since he got here and it has taken us nowhere.

Any old coach can teach a bunch of professional athletes to tackle and defend.... we need our coaches teaching them and planning how to move the ball through heavy floods and pressure.

We get absolutely murdered by teams that know what our weaknesses are and defend accordingly and have done for years.

Until I see better ball movement, I won’t be getting excited about our prospects. I worry that we are hearing a lot about tackling this pre-season as if that was identified as a major issue for us that stopped us winning games last year. I don’t buy it. Tackling is/should be a given.

Our issue since the start of the rebuild is executing skills under pressure and if we don’t fix that, we are going nowhere.
Pressure football wins finals so I can absolutely see the reasoning behind basing the team around it. Last season in particular we were atrocious at actually completing a tackle though.
 
Pressure football wins finals so I can absolutely see the reasoning behind basing the team around it. Last season in particular we were atrocious at actually completing a tackle though.
I don't know... I see it written a lot on here that we "didn't stick tackles" last year as if there was some sort of technique issue at play with our tackling. To me, our lack of sticking tackles is much more down to our poor defensive structures and the improving performances of opposition teams when it comes to executing their skills under pressure.

Quite simply, manic pressure gameplans have been around in the league for a while now and, pressure and tackling without structure behind it gets you nowhere. Teams are learning how to play through pressure with composure and pick apart sub-standard defensive set-ups. Richmond are the best pressure and tackling team because they have a perfectly choreographed defensive zone that underpins all of their pressure. They know when to go ,when not to go, when to corral and, most importantly, always do it with their structure in mind. It has the look of being manic because it comes in relentless waves but it is perfectly set-up.

The problem is, a lot of teams look at what Richmond, the Bulldogs and Collingwood this year did and think that "pressure" is the key to success when it is the structure that allows the pressure to happen. The coaches in pre-season and during the week hold the key to this. Our defensive structures have been shown up for a long time now... no one can question our endeavour or tackling... but our blokes are running around chasing tail against the teams that move the ball well under pressure.

Why we look towards a non-360 degree game like rugby has me beat... it's pretty much the last sport you'd look at tactically.

There's no wonder we've regressed to the point we did last year where we were poor both defensively when it came to our defensive structures and offensively when it came to moving the ball against zones and pressure. Dunstan put into words what many of us suspected a couple of pre-seasons back when he let the cat out of the bag by saying something along the lines of "we've always pressured but without any structure behind it until Playfair arrived"... problem is, old habits die hard and a lot of these young blokes weren't taught properly how to structure up from the start.

I like what West Coast have done personally. They saw the way the majority of teams were playing when it came to kicking long to hot spots and manic pressure around the ball and basically did the opposite, concentrating on picking off the long positional kicks with fantastic intercept markers like Barass and McGovern and then slicing through manic pressure with composed and precision-like ball movement through the midfield, while honouring leads of tall forwards with kicks to advantage rather than bombing it long. They weren't considered a top 8 chance this time last year but Simpson and Mitchell fashioned a brilliant gameplan that took them all the way and suited their personnel.

We are going to live and die on the tackling/pressure gameplan, but jesus we are a long way back on teams that do that well because both the coaches and the players have shown that are just not that good at it. It's all or nothing with us and this gameplan and it has regressed season on season meaning the players have lost faith. They are expending a shitload of energy for no reward so no wonder.... I would be so happy if we wen't back to the drawing board and, like West Coast, started working on a gameplan that tried to foresee where the game was heading and played to our list's strengths, rather than imitating others. And, most importantly, started emphasising composure over concepts like pressure.
 
I don't know... I see it written a lot on here that we "didn't stick tackles" last year as if there was some sort of technique issue at play with our tackling. To me, our lack of sticking tackles is much more down to our poor defensive structures and the improving performances of opposition teams when it comes to executing their skills under pressure.

Quite simply, manic pressure gameplans have been around in the league for a while now and, pressure and tackling without structure behind it gets you nowhere. Teams are learning how to play through pressure with composure and pick apart sub-standard defensive set-ups. Richmond are the best pressure and tackling team because they have a perfectly choreographed defensive zone that underpins all of their pressure. They know when to go ,when not to go, when to corral and, most importantly, always do it with their structure in mind. It has the look of being manic because it comes in relentless waves but it is perfectly set-up.

The problem is, a lot of teams look at what Richmond, the Bulldogs and Collingwood this year did and think that "pressure" is the key to success when it is the structure that allows the pressure to happen. The coaches in pre-season and during the week hold the key to this. Our defensive structures have been shown up for a long time now... no one can question our endeavour or tackling... but our blokes are running around chasing tail against the teams that move the ball well under pressure.

Why we look towards a non-360 degree game like rugby has me beat... it's pretty much the last sport you'd look at tactically.

There's no wonder we've regressed to the point we did last year where we were poor both defensively when it came to our defensive structures and offensively when it came to moving the ball against zones and pressure. Dunstan put into words what many of us suspected a couple of pre-seasons back when he let the cat out of the bag by saying something along the lines of "we've always pressured but without any structure behind it until Playfair arrived"... problem is, old habits die hard and a lot of these young blokes weren't taught properly how to structure up from the start.

I like what West Coast have done personally. They saw the way the majority of teams were playing when it came to kicking long to hot spots and manic pressure around the ball and basically did the opposite, concentrating on picking off the long positional kicks with fantastic intercept markers like Barass and McGovern and then slicing through manic pressure with composed and precision-like ball movement through the midfield, while honouring leads of tall forwards with kicks to advantage rather than bombing it long. They weren't considered a top 8 chance this time last year but Simpson and Mitchell fashioned a brilliant gameplan that took them all the way and suited their personnel.

We are going to live and die on the tackling/pressure gameplan, but jesus we are a long way back on teams that do that well because both the coaches and the players have shown that are just not that good at it. It's all or nothing with us and this gameplan and it has regressed season on season meaning the players have lost faith. They are expending a shitload of energy for no reward so no wonder.... I would be so happy if we wen't back to the drawing board and, like West Coast, started working on a gameplan that tried to foresee where the game was heading and played to our list's strengths, rather than imitating others. And, most importantly, started emphasising composure over concepts like pressure.
I sort of agree and disagree with this. I certainly agree that the game plan MUST be developed to suit the talents of the list.

The tackling/pressure gameplan of 2016/17 was good but it was dependent upon also having exceptional marking or "contest" tall forwards (Rooey & Bruce) who you could rely on to be there to either mark or provide the contest for the chaos ball into the forward line that was a direct consequence of the focus on pressure.

The introduction of Playfair/Sydney model saw a subsequently more "structured" defensive set up that relied all players to move more cohesively just fell apart partly because the players either couldn't adapt to it or were incapable of implementing it. (ie just not coached well enough OR not enough to tank to run back AND forward)

The loss of Rooey and Bruce then magnified the breakdown in the new game plan.

So what happens next year - well certainly there will be a change - that's evident in the style of players we have sought to introduce.

So now its up to Richo, Playfair, Lade and Ratten to assess the capabilities of the players and introduce a gameplan that best suits the strengths of the list.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment

(Insert team name) weren't considered a top 8 chance this time last year but (insert coaches name) and (insert assistant coaches names(s)) fashioned a brilliant gameplan that took them all the way and suited their personnel.

Its been true for the last three years and I reckon we will be saying exactly the same thing next year - its become that important because ATM I seriously believe next years premier could be one of a dozen teams
 
I don't know... I see it written a lot on here that we "didn't stick tackles" last year as if there was some sort of technique issue at play with our tackling. To me, our lack of sticking tackles is much more down to our poor defensive structures and the improving performances of opposition teams when it comes to executing their skills under pressure.

Quite simply, manic pressure gameplans have been around in the league for a while now and, pressure and tackling without structure behind it gets you nowhere. Teams are learning how to play through pressure with composure and pick apart sub-standard defensive set-ups. Richmond are the best pressure and tackling team because they have a perfectly choreographed defensive zone that underpins all of their pressure. They know when to go ,when not to go, when to corral and, most importantly, always do it with their structure in mind. It has the look of being manic because it comes in relentless waves but it is perfectly set-up.

The problem is, a lot of teams look at what Richmond, the Bulldogs and Collingwood this year did and think that "pressure" is the key to success when it is the structure that allows the pressure to happen. The coaches in pre-season and during the week hold the key to this. Our defensive structures have been shown up for a long time now... no one can question our endeavour or tackling... but our blokes are running around chasing tail against the teams that move the ball well under pressure.

Why we look towards a non-360 degree game like rugby has me beat... it's pretty much the last sport you'd look at tactically.

There's no wonder we've regressed to the point we did last year where we were poor both defensively when it came to our defensive structures and offensively when it came to moving the ball against zones and pressure. Dunstan put into words what many of us suspected a couple of pre-seasons back when he let the cat out of the bag by saying something along the lines of "we've always pressured but without any structure behind it until Playfair arrived"... problem is, old habits die hard and a lot of these young blokes weren't taught properly how to structure up from the start.

I like what West Coast have done personally. They saw the way the majority of teams were playing when it came to kicking long to hot spots and manic pressure around the ball and basically did the opposite, concentrating on picking off the long positional kicks with fantastic intercept markers like Barass and McGovern and then slicing through manic pressure with composed and precision-like ball movement through the midfield, while honouring leads of tall forwards with kicks to advantage rather than bombing it long. They weren't considered a top 8 chance this time last year but Simpson and Mitchell fashioned a brilliant gameplan that took them all the way and suited their personnel.

We are going to live and die on the tackling/pressure gameplan, but jesus we are a long way back on teams that do that well because both the coaches and the players have shown that are just not that good at it. It's all or nothing with us and this gameplan and it has regressed season on season meaning the players have lost faith. They are expending a shitload of energy for no reward so no wonder.... I would be so happy if we wen't back to the drawing board and, like West Coast, started working on a gameplan that tried to foresee where the game was heading and played to our list's strengths, rather than imitating others. And, most importantly, started emphasising composure over concepts like pressure.


Nathan Burke said that the players we have put together are not suited to the type of game plan Richo likes to play. That was on ABC radio straight after our loss to Collingwood. There seems to be a bit of an issue with different areas of the club all operating in isolation and no overarching plan. I guess we see Richo as a place holder but surely they would have someone to be the architect of the list. Hopefully that's Gubby now.

I still feel like our list isn't really cohesive and we are very young. Our best footy is when we do pressure and grind out wins. We aren't slick or quick or even highly skilled. That means we are kind of stuck doing the workman like stuff until that changes. Hopefully we get someone to start planning a 5 year list development strategy because every season it feels like they just randomly grab players and hope it works.

The positive is that in 2017 Collingwood and West Coast looked about as close to playing off in a Granny as we do.
 
I sort of agree and disagree with this. I certainly agree that the game plan MUST be developed to suit the talents of the list.

The tackling/pressure gameplan of 2016/17 was good but it was dependent upon also having exceptional marking or "contest" tall forwards (Rooey & Bruce) who you could rely on to be there to either mark or provide the contest for the chaos ball into the forward line that was a direct consequence of the focus on pressure.

The introduction of Playfair/Sydney model saw a subsequently more "structured" defensive set up that relied all players to move more cohesively just fell apart partly because the players either couldn't adapt to it or were incapable of implementing it. (ie just not coached well enough OR not enough to tank to run back AND forward)

The loss of Rooey and Bruce then magnified the breakdown in the new game plan.

So what happens next year - well certainly there will be a change - that's evident in the style of players we have sought to introduce.

So now its up to Richo, Playfair, Lade and Ratten to assess the capabilities of the players and introduce a gameplan that best suits the strengths of the list.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment

(Insert team name) weren't considered a top 8 chance this time last year but (insert coaches name) and (insert assistant coaches names(s)) fashioned a brilliant gameplan that took them all the way and suited their personnel.

Its been true for the last three years and I reckon we will be saying exactly the same thing next year - its become that important because ATM I seriously believe next years premier could be one of a dozen teams


On SEN I heard Neil Balme talking about how they started selecting players in form rather than players who were in form with a spot open for them. They tailored the game to the players they had and it worked. It felt from the outside like we weren't rewarding or punishing form. Hopefully that changes in 2019.
 
Nathan Burke said that the players we have put together are not suited to the type of game plan Richo likes to play. That was on ABC radio straight after our loss to Collingwood. There seems to be a bit of an issue with different areas of the club all operating in isolation and no overarching plan. I guess we see Richo as a place holder but surely they would have someone to be the architect of the list. Hopefully that's Gubby now.

I still feel like our list isn't really cohesive and we are very young. Our best footy is when we do pressure and grind out wins. We aren't slick or quick or even highly skilled. That means we are kind of stuck doing the workman like stuff until that changes. Hopefully we get someone to start planning a 5 year list development strategy because every season it feels like they just randomly grab players and hope it works.

The positive is that in 2017 Collingwood and West Coast looked about as close to playing off in a Granny as we do.
If that’s true then I hope we’ve fixed the problem and Richo is getting the players he can work with. I really get the impression things have just been happening around Richo with sod all input from him. Was having his nuts cut off part of his appointment?
 
If that’s true then I hope we’ve fixed the problem and Richo is getting the players he can work with. I really get the impression things have just been happening around Richo with sod all input from him. Was having his nuts cut off part of his appointment?
thats a perception perhaps formed from the opinion on here ... this forum dont rate Richo at all but in the club they still think he is the man to do the job ... on here we see the appointment of Ratten as a sign we are not listening to Richo and we are pushing him out the door inside the club the appointment of Ratten is to strengthen Richos chances of success not to white ant him ...
 
We went from a pressure team to a corralling team (thanks again Mr Playfair) and obviously it backfired horribly. One of the many examples of us trying to play 90’s football.
 

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thats a perception perhaps formed from the opinion on here ... this forum dont rate Richo at all but in the club they still think he is the man to do the job ... on here we see the appointment of Ratten as a sign we are not listening to Richo and we are pushing him out the door inside the club the appointment of Ratten is to strengthen Richos chances of success not to white ant him ...
Yes and no.

The club see Richo as the right man for the job.... however they see his faults and that he needs legitimate support in Ratten. Ratten is the one who is running pre season. He will be in charge of ensuring the boys are ready for the season ahead which is a step up from Kingsley leading the pack. I will say this though, Richo is the man chosen by the board however he is under the spotlight and he knows this. His discussions with the boys are a lot different in the past few months. Im embarrassed you should be too. Put up or shut up type of conversation. Richo knows a bad 2019 and he will be gone. Harvey and Ratten will be the immediate front runners.
 
thats a perception perhaps formed from the opinion on here ... this forum dont rate Richo at all but in the club they still think he is the man to do the job ... on here we see the appointment of Ratten as a sign we are not listening to Richo and we are pushing him out the door inside the club the appointment of Ratten is to strengthen Richos chances of success not to white ant him ...
I think a clearly articulated plan would help and that needs to include just what Richo brings and why he is valued. I don’t know the inner workings of the club but I do know senior management and leadership and I’m not seeing too many of those sort of qualities. Hopefully they are there and 2019 is the year we enter a new era.
 
Yes and no.

The club see Richo as the right man for the job.... however they see his faults and that he needs legitimate support in Ratten. Ratten is the one who is running pre season. He will be in charge of ensuring the boys are ready for the season ahead which is a step up from Kingsley leading the pack. I will say this though, Richo is the man chosen by the board however he is under the spotlight and he knows this. His discussions with the boys are a lot different in the past few months. Im embarrassed you should be too. Put up or shut up type of conversation. Richo knows a bad 2019 and he will be gone. Harvey and Ratten will be the immediate front runners.
the story i heard and im paraphrasing so dont take it as gospel ... but there is a feeling that our club are a bit of a ying yang prospect ... when our list is strong our coaching is sufficent when our couching is strong our list is sufficent ... this has us stuck as a mid table mid range also ran team we will have years where we exceed expectation and make finals and years where we fail and dont meet expectation (the situation of 2018) the clear understanding is that being a middling club is not good enough and we are not strong enough to survive being that forever so significant investment has been put into fixing that ...
 
jo
I don't know... I see it written a lot on here that we "didn't stick tackles" last year as if there was some sort of technique issue at play with our tackling. To me, our lack of sticking tackles is much more down to our poor defensive structures and the improving performances of opposition teams when it comes to executing their skills under pressure.

Quite simply, manic pressure gameplans have been around in the league for a while now and, pressure and tackling without structure behind it gets you nowhere. Teams are learning how to play through pressure with composure and pick apart sub-standard defensive set-ups. Richmond are the best pressure and tackling team because they have a perfectly choreographed defensive zone that underpins all of their pressure. They know when to go ,when not to go, when to corral and, most importantly, always do it with their structure in mind. It has the look of being manic because it comes in relentless waves but it is perfectly set-up.

The problem is, a lot of teams look at what Richmond, the Bulldogs and Collingwood this year did and think that "pressure" is the key to success when it is the structure that allows the pressure to happen. The coaches in pre-season and during the week hold the key to this. Our defensive structures have been shown up for a long time now... no one can question our endeavour or tackling... but our blokes are running around chasing tail against the teams that move the ball well under pressure.

Why we look towards a non-360 degree game like rugby has me beat... it's pretty much the last sport you'd look at tactically.

There's no wonder we've regressed to the point we did last year where we were poor both defensively when it came to our defensive structures and offensively when it came to moving the ball against zones and pressure. Dunstan put into words what many of us suspected a couple of pre-seasons back when he let the cat out of the bag by saying something along the lines of "we've always pressured but without any structure behind it until Playfair arrived"... problem is, old habits die hard and a lot of these young blokes weren't taught properly how to structure up from the start.

I like what West Coast have done personally. They saw the way the majority of teams were playing when it came to kicking long to hot spots and manic pressure around the ball and basically did the opposite, concentrating on picking off the long positional kicks with fantastic intercept markers like Barass and McGovern and then slicing through manic pressure with composed and precision-like ball movement through the midfield, while honouring leads of tall forwards with kicks to advantage rather than bombing it long. They weren't considered a top 8 chance this time last year but Simpson and Mitchell fashioned a brilliant gameplan that took them all the way and suited their personnel.

We are going to live and die on the tackling/pressure gameplan, but jesus we are a long way back on teams that do that well because both the coaches and the players have shown that are just not that good at it. It's all or nothing with us and this gameplan and it has regressed season on season meaning the players have lost faith. They are expending a shitload of energy for no reward so no wonder.... I would be so happy if we wen't back to the drawing board and, like West Coast, started working on a gameplan that tried to foresee where the game was heading and played to our list's strengths, rather than imitating others. And, most importantly, started emphasising composure over concepts like pressure.

Great over sight Narkles.

I think the lack of intent and effort in tackling was brought about by the players losing faith and confidence in their systems. It still assists to train and improve the tackling/pressuring with the new players.

I just hope with the new senior Assistant Coaches coming on board, Richo updates his approach? I get the impression that pressure in the forward half will be the priority. Particularly with the advent of the new recruits and focussing on closing speed. Richo mentioned our inability to lock the ball in and create 2nd chances at goal as an issue on numerous occasions.

We faired pretty well with our forward 50 entry numbers, but I hope they are working on a major improvement in the quality of ball movement. The club desparately needs an in form Bruce to come back and a lot more goals from the small forward brigade.
 
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the story i heard and im paraphrasing so dont take it as gospel ... but there is a feeling that our club are a bit of a ying yang prospect ... when our list is strong our coaching is sufficent when our couching is strong our list is sufficent ... this has us stuck as a mid table mid range also ran team we will have years where we exceed expectation and make finals and years where we fail and dont meet expectation (the situation of 2018) the clear understanding is that being a middling club is not good enough and we are not strong enough to survive being that forever so significant investment has been put into fixing that ...
Coming off such a bad year we're a bit fractured. Some of the out-going board members supported Richo and some of the in-going don't. He stills has his supporters around the table and within the club, but he also has an ever growing contingent that don't. All the talk is basically when Rat's takes over..

This week was very big for the club. We had a tense board meeting Monday and the AGM yesterday. The biggest issue is the debt. A clear pathway to reduce this over the next few years.
 
Coming off such a bad year we're a bit fractured. Some of the out-going board members supported Richo and some of the in-going don't. He stills has his supporters around the table and within the club, but he also has an ever growing contingent that don't. All the talk is basically when Rat's takes over..

This week was very big for the club. We had a tense board meeting Monday and the AGM yesterday. The biggest issue is the debt. A clear pathway to reduce this over the next few years.
That's just dumb. You either back the guy in 100% for next year or you sack him now.

Otherwise you spend the year looking for reasons to sack him.

Sorry but that's really shit approach from sections of the board IMO.

You can't go around talking about when Ratts takes over.
 
That's just dumb. You either back the guy in 100% for next year or you sack him now.

Otherwise you spend the year looking for reasons to sack him.

Sorry but that's really shit approach from sections of the board IMO.

You can't go around talking about when Ratts takes over.

Id imagine one of the main motivators of the new board members would be to ensure the club achieves on field sucess. The previous board made the decision to honour Richo's contract and put quality support around him.

Richo knows he is on notice and has been given the year to show he is the guy to take the club forward. The opinion of certain board members makes no difference to Richo's plight in the big picture, (either he proves he can coach or he doesnt).
 
thats a perception perhaps formed from the opinion on here ... this forum dont rate Richo at all but in the club they still think he is the man to do the job ... on here we see the appointment of Ratten as a sign we are not listening to Richo and we are pushing him out the door inside the club the appointment of Ratten is to strengthen Richos chances of success not to white ant him ...

That's the way it should be, anything else would be toxic.
 
That's just dumb. You either back the guy in 100% for next year or you sack him now.

Otherwise you spend the year looking for reasons to sack him.

Sorry but that's really shit approach from sections of the board IMO.

You can't go around talking about when Ratts takes over.
That's the problem with boards and why they should always have odd numbers. Most of the time nothing is 100% agreed.

But agree with the point, if he's backed in, then the rest should at least keep shut until its an issue again.

But opinions and ego always rise higher.
 
That's just dumb. You either back the guy in 100% for next year or you sack him now.

Otherwise you spend the year looking for reasons to sack him.

Sorry but that's really shit approach from sections of the board IMO.

You can't go around talking about when Ratts takes over.
exactly .... any club that allows that kind of white anting of a person (let alone the head coach) is a pretty toxic enviroment and doesnt in any way present a happy and focused team moving forward .. im not privy to board meetings or anything of the sort but i think if there was a case of that type of thing going around then we may as well shut up shop now because that negative enviroment wont attract players and it will not do anything to help us retain players either ...
my thinking is we have backed Richo in to turn it around with support around him not that we are setting him up to fail with the eye on who is next
 

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