List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Academy, Contracts, Trading & Draft

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Some more trade and draft resources. Courtesy of Lore.

Key Off-Season Dates
This is a comprehensive list including dates for draft combines, list lodgements, delisted free agency windows and return to train dates. I had to collate these from three different club websites because the AFL is lazy af and doesn't have it on their website, so thought it might be helpful to share:

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

AFL TRADE, DRAFT AND FREE AGENCY DATES 2021

Grand Final
Saturday September 25

Draft Combine – Vic Country
Friday October 1

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
Wednesday October 3 - Friday October 15

Trade Period (picks and players)
Monday October 4 (9am) – Wednesday October 13 (7.30pm)

Draft Combines (States and Regions)
VM: Saturday October 9 (tbc)
Qld: Sunday October 10
Tas: Monday October 11
SA: Saturday October 16
WA: Sunday October 17
NSW & ACT: tbc
NT: will join SA or Qld

Trade Period (picks only)
Monday October 18 – Monday November 15

List Lodgement 1
Friday October 29

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
Wednesday November 3 – Tuesday November 9

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
Wednesday November 10

Delisted Free Agency Window 3
Thursday November 11 – Monday November 15

AFL Pre-Season Commences (First to fourth year players)
Monday November 22

National Draft
Round 1: Wednesday November 24 (7pm)
Round 2–end: Thursday November 25 (7pm)

Preseason and Rookie Drafts
Friday November 26 (3.20pm)

Final List Lodgement
Monday November 29

Pre-Season Commences (All other players)
Monday December 6

Pre-Season Supplemental Selection Period (SSP)
December - March (tbc)

Pre-Season Christmas Break
Sunday December 19 - Sunday January 9

Draft Order & Future Pick Tracker



FAQs & Resources Thread

It has an index at the top with threadmarks so it's easy to find what you're looking for – or easier than scrolling through 250 pages of AFL Rules, Regulations and CBA pdfs anyway.

These sorts of questions are all answered along with a bunch of other resources made by posters from across BigFooty (feel free to add to it!):
www.bigfooty.com

Resource - FAQs: Rules, Regulations and Resources for Player Movements in the AFL

List sizes Club age and height profiles Salary cap information Trading rules including salary dumps Father/son & academy draft bids Free agency compensation formula & more
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com

GWS List Summary

Senior List

33: 36 less delisted Shipley & Hutchesson, delisted Wehr (to be reselected in rookie draft), traded Finlayson, plus DFA signing of Brander. 3 to 5 spots available at ND.

1 Phil Davis - 2022
2 Jacob Hopper - 2023
3 Stephen Coniglio - 2026
4 Toby Greene - 2026
5 Tanner Bruhn - 2022
6 Lachie Whitfield - 2027
7 Lachlan Ash - 2023
8 Callan Ward - 2022
9 Ryan Angwin - 2022
10 Jacob Wehr - 2022 [delisted with an agreement to select in the rookie draft]
11 Brayden Preuss - 2023
12 Tom Green - 2023
13 Isaac Cumming - 2022
14 Tim Taranto - 2022
15 Sam Taylor - 2025
16 Brent Daniels - 2025
18 Conor Stone - 2024
19 Nick Haynes - 2024
22 Josh Kelly - 2029
23 Jesse Hogan - 2022
24 Matthew De Boer - 2022
25 Lachlan Keeffe - 2022
26 Jake Riccardi - 2023
27 Harry Himmelberg - 2023
29 Cam Fleeton - 2022
30 Matt Flynn - 2023
32 Kieran Briggs - 2022
33 Xavier O'Halloran - 2022
36 Harry Perryman - 2022
37 Ian Hill - 2022
39 Connor Idun - 2022
40 Adam Kennedy - 2022
44 Jack Buckley - 2022

+ Jarrod Brander - 2022 (selected in first DFA window)

Rookie List - A

4: 7 less delisted Reid & Buntine, retired Shane Mumford. 0 to 2 spots available for rookie draft.

28 Zach Sproule - 2022
38 Daniel Lloyd - 2022
42 Jake Stein - 2022
45 James Peatling - 2022

Rookie List - B

2: full

35 Will Shaw - 2022
46 Callum M Brown - 2022 (Irish international rookie, extended 1 year under COVID rules)
 
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Hendo_21 said:
Don't think I'd want to trade down any lower then Adelaide at 4 unless Hawthorn were willing to put a lot more on the table or Freo is offering a huge deal, thats just me though I'm not a big fan of Mac Andrews' fit with this team and would have him ranked 4th for us of the rumoured 4 players that we've been linked with. Would rank them: Callaghan, Rachele, Gibcus and then Mac. If the plan is to get Mac then they can likely get away with trading down to Hawthorn and if they're lucky Freo.
Click to expand...
I'm not 100% sold on Mac - I like the idea of what he might be able to bring to the team, but pick #2 does seem very early. It will take a few years before a verdict can be handed down on whether it was genius foresight or rampaging over-optimism. So, trading down for added advantage seems like a good hedging strategy - provided it bears fruit.

At this point, it's a case of trusting in Adrian Caruso and his team.
 
Giant Strides said:
I'm not 100% sold on Mac - I like the idea of what he might be able to bring to the team, but pick #2 does seem very early. It will take a few years before a verdict can be handed down on whether it was genius foresight or rampaging over-optimism. So, trading down for added advantage seems like a good hedging strategy - provided it bears fruit.

At this point, it's a case of trusting in Adrian Caruso and his team.
Click to expand...
I don't understand not having faith in Briggs and Flynn, Caruso and his team were the ones that drafted those guys I would maybe understand if it was a new regime that had just come in and they were looking to fill out the list with their own guys but it's the same recruitng team and both Flynn and Briggs (Preuss too) have done nothing to suggest they won't be really good players. If they see Mac as a key forward then that changes things, but to take Mac just seems like they'd be giving up on Flynn and Briggs when there is no reason at all to give up on them, they should be filled with nothing but optimism based on their first year playing at the AFL level.
 

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Hendo_21 said:
I don't understand not having faith in Briggs and Flynn like Caruso and his team drafted those guys I would maybe understand if it was a new regime that had just come in and they were looking to fill out the list with their own guys but it's the same recruitng team and both Flynn and Briggs (Preuss too) have done nothing to suggest they won't be really good players. If they see Mac as a key forward then that changes things, but to take Mac just seems like they'd be giving up on Flynn and Briggs when there is no reason at all to give up on them, they should be filled with nothing but optimism based on their first year playing at the AFL level.
Click to expand...
TBH, I'm guessing they've looked at the success of Jackson at Melbourne and wondering if they can replicate it (particularly in the near timeframe) with Mac. TBF, they were keen on Jackson at the time (as well as Ash & Green), and did try to trade with Melbourne for their pick #3 instead of Adelaide's pick #4, so it's not just hindsight. So, that's looking at Mac as a very athletic guy who can play that No2 role to a main ruck. I think they have faith in the rucks we have ... although needing Leon to work out who's the guy who steps up as the primary ruck.

I get that they're trying to provide Leon with the pieces of the puzzle that can unlock a premiership. Until a club wins a premiership, though, it's unknown what the required piece was!
 
Giant Strides said:
TBH, I'm guessing they've looked at the success of Jackson at Melbourne and wondering if they can replicate it (particularly in the near timeframe) with Mac. TBF, they were keen on Jackson at the time (as well as Ash & Green), and did try to trade with Melbourne for their pick #3 instead of Adelaide's pick #4, so it's not just hindsight. So, that's looking at Mac as a very athletic guy who can play that No2 role to a main ruck. I think they have faith in the rucks we have ... although needing Leon to work out who's the guy who steps up as the primary ruck.

I get that they're trying to provide Leon with the pieces of the puzzle that can unlock a premiership. Until a club wins a premiership, though, it's unknown what the required piece was!
Click to expand...
I just think thats such bad process and not a great way to fill out a team, spending the #2 pick in the draft on a secondary ruckmen seems ludicrous to me and just not a great way to spend our resources. Would be a really baffling decision to me, and made worse if it was at #2. If they eventually do end up taking Mac that high I'm sure ill talk myself into it but right now I just can't see it, it doesn't make sense to me. We're not a No.2 ruck away from winning a flag that isn't our issue what so ever, this list has a few holes and that isn't one of them. I wouldn't draft purely on need but when there a really high quality players on the board that fill current and future needs it's a no brainer to me.
 
Hope it doesn't come across as being angry at you, I'm not at all, because you're presenting the other side of the argument I'm just angry at the idea of it in theory. It's good to have these discussions and talk things out.
 
Orange crush said:
he was 70 kg and still developing .... 6 months of newbie gains at 70 kg Could be as much as 7-8 kgs without factoring in natural development
Click to expand...
It’s highly unlikely. That kind of muscle gain is more likely 3 years not 6 months

I reckon someone is telling some
Furphys about that weight gain

Is Colin young his manager? Lol
 
Hendo_21 said:
I just think thats such bad process and not a great way to fill out a team, spending the #2 pick in the draft on a secondary ruckmen seems ludicrous to me and just not a great way to spend our resources. Would be a really baffling decision to me, and made worse if it was at #2. If they eventually do end up taking Mac that high I'm sure ill talk myself into it but right now I just can't see it, it doesn't make sense to me. We're not a No.2 ruck away from winning a flag that isn't our issue what so ever, this list has a few holes and that isn't one of them. I wouldn't draft purely on need but when there a really high quality players on the board that fill current and future needs it's a no brainer to me.
Click to expand...
Fair enough argument

So if we drafted purely on needs and ignore numbers and context who is in the picture? Rachele? Gibcus? Amiss?
 
Danny88 said:
Fair enough argument

So if we drafted purely on needs and ignore numbers and context who is in the picture? Rachele? Gibcus? Amiss?
Click to expand...
Callaghan fills need of offering a different dynamic to a currently fairly samey midfield, Gibcus fills a need in 1-2 years when Phil ultimately hands them up, Rachele fills a big need right now in small forward and especially smalls that can hit the scoreboard and could impact games early in his career. Earlier in the process I might've gone after Amiss but after looking at next years class being pretty deep with KPP talent and it not being a major need right now even if Hogan isn't playing we can still get by it isn't ideal but we can work with it. Next year is probably when I'd look to grab our next KPF. All 3 of those guys are really quality prospects and if we walked away with any of them or by some chance 2/3 think we're doing really well.
 
Hendo_21 said:
Hope it doesn't come across as being angry at you, I'm not at all, because you're presenting the other side of the argument I'm just angry at the idea of it in theory. It's good to have these discussions and talk things out.
Click to expand...
Not a problem, and no, I'm not seeing you as angry. And, yes, the point of a discussion forum is to discuss ideas ... everyone won't necessarily be in agreement with each other, or the club. As long as we can be civil to each other, it's fine.

Sometimes we aim to convince others of our view, in this case, I'm in two minds myself so just trying to be logical about the options and why the club might see it differently.
 

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Hendo_21 said:
Hope it doesn't come across as being angry at you, I'm not at all, because you're presenting the other side of the argument I'm just angry at the idea of it in theory. It's good to have these discussions and talk things out.
Click to expand...
Personally I love the robust conversation and the passion.
Fortunately we have Caruso at the helm.
Draft season is beautiful.
 
PaythePerryman said:
Personally I love the robust conversation and the passion.
Fortunately we have Caruso at the helm.
Draft season is beautiful.
Click to expand...
So do I! Just wanted to make sure everyone felt comfortable and I wasn't being perceived to be having a go at anyone. Should be a really exciting and probably frustrating at times next few weeks.
 
Mr Magic said:
Lets play Devils Advocate, just for the hell of it,


Assume Callaghan goes to GWS pick 4 after Daicos and Darcy.

When do people think Rachelle, Gibcus and MacAndrew will fall assuming GWS hopes and keeps 13?
Click to expand...
My gut feel is that there is a reasonable chance that one of Gibcus or Andrew will be there at 13.
I think there is a good chance the Sun's take 1. Not sure who takes the other before our pick.
 
So does anybody know what is happening?
I think if we trade down, do it twice.
Trade 2 for 3 with gold coast, get
2 for 3, gold coast2022r2.
If Adelaide want 3 then or hawthorn,
do 3 for 5,21.

Turn 2 ( really 4)
Into 7,23,about pick 25 next year.

Having said that, we seem to have less retention issues with top5 picks than those around 11-15,
so don't stuff around unless we don't want Finn.
If gibcus would be available at 5 (7),
then trade down, get hawthorn's 2022r1
 
Last edited:
sydney_gws said:
So does anybody know what is happening?
I think if we trade down, do it twice.
Trade 2 for 3 with gold coast, get
2 for 3, gold coast2022r2.
If Adelaide want 3 then or hawthorn,
do 3 for 5,21.

Turn 2 ( really 4)
Into 7,23,about pick 25 next year.
Click to expand...
That's certainly an option. Although we should get more bounty by trading #2 to someone further back. But while clubs want Callaghan, there seems to be a reluctance to pay for him. Taking Callaghan with #2, then trading using #13 and next year's first for say Andrew if they really want him is an option too.

Hopefully no-one outside of Caruso and his team know what they're doing, otherwise we won't get what we want!
 
GWS Goose said:
My gut feel is that there is a reasonable chance that one of Gibcus or Andrew will be there at 13.
I think there is a good chance the Sun's take 1. Not sure who takes the other before our pick.
Click to expand...

This is where it gets interesting. I don't know. I am an observant but I have my take on my own ratings and I look at other posters posts as well as otehr sources . Many punters have their ratings and thats fair enough. The thing is the maths, someone has to get picked a 3 or 5 and vice versa and eventually the players get selected. So they have to go at some point and people seem to rate players but they all cannot fit at one selection and they all can't last forever. Assuming if someone trades with GWS for 2 to use for Callaghan its very hard I think to tell what Gold Coast is going to do/select, same with Adelaide, same with Hawthorn and even Freo but they have to do something and at some point someone has to be selected and the math is a given as players are subtracted from a list once taken.

Someone will slip, someone will rise, I would be surprised if a number of players follow the phantom suggestions after GWS's pick, but I am not sure of huge margins here. I would be surprised if Andrew get selected too high but he will be selected at some point and could easily be before 13 or really 15.

A lot will come down to value, at some point in time perceived value of one selection versus another will determine when a selection will fall but those perceptions of value is difficult to gauge at times and are club dependent
 
Last edited:
Mr Magic said:
This is where it gets interesting. I don't know. I am an observant but I have my take on my own ratings and I look at other posters posts as well as otehr sources . Many punters have their ratings and thats fair enough. The thing is the maths, someone has to get picked a 3 or 5 and vice versa and eventually the players get selected. So they have to go at some point and people seem to rate players but they all cannot fit at one selection and they all can't last forever. Assuming if someone trades with GWS for 2 to use for Callaghan its very hard I think to tell what Gold Coast is going to do/select, same with Adelaide, same with Hawthorn and even Freo but they have to do something and at some point someone has to be selected and the math is a given as players are subtracted from a list once taken.

Someone will slip, someone will rise, I would be surprised if a number of players follow the phantom suggestions after GWS's pick, but I am not sure of huge margins here. I would be surprised if Andrew get selected too high but he will be selected at some point and could easily be before 13 or really 15.

A lot will come down to value, at some point in time perceived value of one selection versus another will determine when a selection will fall but those perceptions of value is difficult to gauge at times and are club dependent
Click to expand...
Yep .... the good players will get picked and we can’t be sure where .... the best laid plans of mice and all that
 
An interesting article on afl.com.au about Josh Gibcus. There has been a bit of a vibe around him not wanting to relocate interstate and being a bit of a flight risk, but his background and what he's said indicates otherwise. (You can never tell for sure until the situation arises, though.) I am probably re-warming to him as an option.

Off the charts: The well-travelled draft prospect with a monster vertical leap (afl.com.au)

Josh Gibcus was born in Brisbane and spent the first seven years of his life in Queensland, where he started Auskick and first got his hands on a footy. His family then moved to Perth for his father's work, where he was based for his next seven years, including making the West Australian under-12s state side.
When he was 14, the Gibcus family moved to Ballarat, where the teenager's path to the AFL took shape and where he has developed into one of the leading prospects in this year's NAB AFL Draft and the best key defender available. Where Gibcus ends up next is most exciting. Early in 2022, his parents are planning to move back to Perth and by then Gibcus will be on an AFL list – somewhere. Be it Sydney, Victoria or Western Australia, the teenager knows his upbringing will hold him in good stead for his next move.

"I don't mind where I go. I've travelled around a fair bit which I think has helped me and I can understand how moving works. I'll just take the opportunity as it comes and whoever picks me on draft night I'll go and give it everything I've got," he told AFL.com.au. "Moving to new places has meant I've had to adapt and moving to new school meant I have had to make a whole bunch of new friends. It's helped quite a bit looking ahead and if I did have to move at the end of the year it wouldn't be too much of a problem."
 
Giant Strides said:
An interesting article on afl.com.au about Josh Gibcus. There has been a bit of a vibe around him not wanting to relocate interstate and being a bit of a flight risk, but his background and what he's said indicates otherwise. (You can never tell for sure until the situation arises, though.) I am probably re-warming to him as an option.

Off the charts: The well-travelled draft prospect with a monster vertical leap (afl.com.au)

Josh Gibcus was born in Brisbane and spent the first seven years of his life in Queensland, where he started Auskick and first got his hands on a footy. His family then moved to Perth for his father's work, where he was based for his next seven years, including making the West Australian under-12s state side.
When he was 14, the Gibcus family moved to Ballarat, where the teenager's path to the AFL took shape and where he has developed into one of the leading prospects in this year's NAB AFL Draft and the best key defender available. Where Gibcus ends up next is most exciting. Early in 2022, his parents are planning to move back to Perth and by then Gibcus will be on an AFL list – somewhere. Be it Sydney, Victoria or Western Australia, the teenager knows his upbringing will hold him in good stead for his next move.

"I don't mind where I go. I've travelled around a fair bit which I think has helped me and I can understand how moving works. I'll just take the opportunity as it comes and whoever picks me on draft night I'll go and give it everything I've got," he told AFL.com.au. "Moving to new places has meant I've had to adapt and moving to new school meant I have had to make a whole bunch of new friends. It's helped quite a bit looking ahead and if I did have to move at the end of the year it wouldn't be too much of a problem."
Click to expand...

ducks and drakes.

Who is spinning, Gold Coast or another source?
 


Among others, I hope Butler is in our thinking for Pick 13 if we keep hold of it. Think trade period has shown we're fairly flimsy for forward half depth, and Butler would be one of those that could help with that best
 

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