List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Targets

[philthy05]

It wouldn’t have stopped us from doing anything. There’s no rule and the rule about reading both your future 1st and 2nd can be gotten around by asking the afl who have said they won’t block it if the team has a young profile.

 

[AdamMarrett]

That is not what I'm saying in general we have done OK the Rozee, Butters Duursma picks have given them some credit points. What if our 3 got picked by other clubs and we were left with Rankine, Caldwell and Sturt all guys who were taken before our picks. Just to correct you I don't see how we got maximum value for Pittard seeing we gave him away.

What I'm talking about is
1. Wingard - so the knock on him was training standards. Why were we not able to lift his standards up to the level that was required. Nobody would say that his playing output was not up to standard but our first instinct was to move him on. Poor Man Management
2. Howard - gets told that he was being looked at as a forward not a back. Firstly who makes the mistake the player who pushes back or the coach who is pigeon-holing him into one position. Poor Man Management
3. Ladhams - I assume they don't like his after dark activities. Again they don't appear to be able to change his habits and attitude and then gets traded.

Other guys have also been offered the chance to look around for another club Hartlett is one I can think of. Our management and strategy is poor and at the time the whole Polec/Wingard trades looked like genius but could be dumb luck. Even the Clowns have said that were looking at Butters for the Chayce Jones pick.

1. Wingard- he had to lift his training, look at Boak, Wingard seems to lack the self motivation as great as he could be for us. He's as much to blame as anyone that he didn't become what he should've, hell Clarkson couldn't solve it.

2. Howard- The coaches wanted him to mark more, ala Aliir and play that role, as a big part of our attacking play is set up from the run from behind off the back of intercept marks. That's the reading I had of him being asked to play forward not back. That's on him and he left, good luck to him no knock on him that's footy.

3. Ladhams- we'll have to wait and see what happens with his career. I can't see him being a AA ruckman, or a champion so I'm not as phased with him going as others.

I want Hinkley gone as much as others but we've had DBJ develop into a AA calibre player, Aliir as well, Rozee at times, especially Butters have been developed at the club, Dixon became a AA forward and played career best footy here, same as Ryder while he was here Ollie Wines has developed into a Brownlow medalist under these coaches. Houston could be a AA type player, so we have developed players others we haven't, but that's footy.

I get at the minute, everyone is against everything the club does or has done well after the preliminary final debacle, it's the way it is.

But some of the criticism is just neglecting what good has been done development wise and in other areas.

I'll also add as I'll like get called a happy clapper or something ridiculous I want Hinkley and Koch gone and the club to rebuild under new leadership, but I won't buy into it's all doom and gloom.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

2022 and 2023 for luko?

Croms have a war chest of picks AND salary to get him.

 

[Adz2332]

Croms have a war chest of picks AND salary to get him.

enough for rankine and luko?

 

[Young Gun #6]

1. Wingard- he had to lift his training, look at Boak, Wingard seems to lack the self motivation as great as he could be for us. He's as much to blame as anyone that he didn't become what he should've, hell Clarkson couldn't solve it.

2. Howard- The coaches wanted him to mark more, ala Aliir and play that role, as a big part of our attacking play is set up from the run from behind off the back of intercept marks. That's the reading I had of him being asked to play forward not back. That's on him and he left, good luck to him no knock on him that's footy.

3. Ladhams- we'll have to wait and see what happens with his career. I can't see him being a AA ruckman, or a champion so I'm not as phased with him going as others.

I want Hinkley gone as much as others but we've had DBJ develop into a AA calibre player, Aliir as well, Rozee at times, especially Butters have been developed at the club, Dixon became a AA forward and played career best footy here, same as Ryder while he was here Ollie Wines has developed into a Brownlow medalist under these coaches. Houston could be a AA type player, so we have developed players others we haven't, but that's footy.

I get at the minute, everyone is against everything the club does or has done well after the preliminary final debacle, it's the way it is.

But some of the criticism is just neglecting what good has been done development wise and in other areas.

I'll also add as I'll like get called a happy clapper or something ridiculous I want Hinkley and Koch gone and the club to rebuild under new leadership, but I won't buy into it's all doom and gloom.

Spot on analysis.

With Wingard, he played his best every footy at our club, we sold him at a time when he potentially was entering his prime, got great value out of it and then he went on to be worse than he was in his junior days. That was an excellent trade and whether you think the club knew what they were doing or not, you can only be analysed on the result of the trade, which was a massive win.

The thing is the club knows a lot more about these players than we do, we are purely speculating on whether it was the right or wrong choice for whatever reason to move a player on.

Port know the in's and out's though so you have to trust when moving a player on that it's for the right reasons.

It's worked out quite well for us so far and I don't see Ladhams being a world beater at Sydney either.

 

[Astronema]

I just want to add that I don’t think this is a particularly good trade either, but this narrative that we pushed Ladhams out and lowered his value seems misleading.

I also think rating the trade based on points is misleading as we don’t know the players that Parker and co are eyeing off. The difference between 16 and 12 is dependent on the players available and we are giving ourselves the option of 4 more players from the first round/top 16 which could be significant.

I don’t know what happens next year if we keep Ladhams either. Honestly it looks like we were planning to shunt him down the order into the SANFL and we would probably have gotten the third rounder on its own. Perhaps poor management but I’m not sure what else we are meant to do. We just can’t have all 3 of Lycett, Hayes and Ladhams on our list, something had to give.

 

[Astronema]

It wouldn’t have stopped us from doing anything. There’s no rule and the rule about reading both your future 1st and 2nd can be gotten around by asking the afl who have said they won’t block it if the team has a young profile.

You do have to make 3 selections at the ND though right? So somehow there may be some merit in what Janus is saying.

 

[philthy05]

You do have to make 3 selections at the ND though right? So somehow there may be some merit in what Janus is saying.

Teams have as many selections as they have open list spots. If you had 30 list spots you could have picks 70-100 in theory.

If you have 5 list spots the afl would assign you 5 picks in each round. You trade the 3rd rounder out, you can still take 5 picks, it’s just your 6th rounder comes into play as your 5th pick.
And 3 is the minimum but rookie upgrades count.

 

[morell]

In the end it was a shitty trade by the club. Sydney's 3rd round next year will be a pick around 50 give or take a couple of picks.

Its irrelevant what other players were traded for to other clubs eg CJC or Clarke. Just because you have a bigger and better house than someone else a few suburbs away, doesn't mean you will sell your house for more than the other bloke. It all depends which buyer you attract to which house, how much they each have to spend, and how much they want to spend, and how desperate you both are to sell. That's the free market.

I wonder if CD deliberately talked up Ladhams knowing he was going to want to leave and tried to con other sides that we wanted top $$ for him?

If Party Pete has as many problems off field with attitude issues as has been alluded to here, then the industry would know and no amount of talking up was going to convince anyone to pay top dollar for him. The AFL is a mate, mate, lets talk some gossip type industry. Look at how much gossip C4 puts on to Big Footy - not just the Port board.

So CD ends up looking stupid, but if Sydney and Hawthorn know he has big issues, CD was never going to be able to bury them like the Hawks did with Jonathan Hay and Nathan Thompson's and their depression issus back around 2004 and 2005 drafts and extract maximum value for them, but those players didn't deliver maximum output post trades, because of those depression issues.

Plus getting the Finlayson deal done, gave it away that there wasn't enough room for Ladhams. We didn't draft Finlayson, probably on $400k, to play all year in the SANFL, and not also play Dixon, Marshall, Georgides and Lycett. So Sydney would have said to CD, don't BS us, we know you wont play him much next year, maybe 10 games and you are stuck paying him $400k, so effectively another $30k+ each game on top of his standard match payments.

Anyway Party Pete wont be short of party's to attend in the eastern suburbs. For reasons, partly real estate values, I see him more as a Maroubra rather than Bondi type of guy, just different types of parties.

Exactly right.

Not a great result for us but really clear what the strategy was. Given Ladhams was contracted we didn't have to do anything, we actively chose to trade him, meaning we wanted him off the list - for whatever reason, be it loving the smell of rack, attitude, behaviour, culture or training standards..or all of the above. We'll likely never know.

CD tried to bluff the league and failed, Sydney to their credit called it. Sucks. But we were going into the game with a hand of 2 and 7 off suit.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Let me get this straight. you're arguing that you should go hard to get as early as possible in the first round...

And your evidence is:
Rozee (top 10 pick)
Butters (10-20)
Duursma (10-20)
Bergman (10-20)
Georgiades (10-20)
Jones (10-20)

vs
Moore (top 10 pick)
Butcher (top 10 pick)
Pittard (10-20).

Looks like we were more succssful when we didn't push to get as early as possible.

In fact, Bergman was the result of sliding a pick backwards in the Howard trade. And of course that slide meant we missed out of Kossie Pickett, who was taken with our original pick.

That's nuffy bs. The 2009 draft was a shit draft. Martin at 3, Cunnignton (5), and Fyfe (20) with a bunch of spuds in between. All of our misses are there. You have picked 2 very good drafts to compare a shit one against.

There is 10-20 in the so called 'super draft'

11	Jye Caldwell	GWS Giants	Bendigo Pioneers	TAC Cup	Traded from Essendon​
12	Zak Butters	Port Adelaide	Western Jets	TAC Cup	​
13	Isaac Quaynor	Collingwood	Oakleigh Chargers	TAC Cup	Next Generation Academy selection (Ghanaian descent)​
14	Jackson Hately	GWS Giants	Central District	SANFL	Traded from Freo; received from Port, N.M.​
15	Jordan Clark	Geelong	Claremont	WAFL	​
16	Ned McHenry	Adelaide	Geelong Falcons	TAC Cup	Traded from Sydney​
17	Sam Sturt	Fremantle	Dandenong Stingrays	TAC Cup	Traded from Greater Western Sydney​
18	Xavier Duursma	Port Adelaide	Gippsland Power	TAC Cup	Traded from Hawthorn​
19	Liam Stocker	Carlton	Sandringham Dragons	TAC Cup	Traded from Adelaide at the draft; received from Melbourne​
20	Riley Collier-Dawkins	Richmond	Oakleigh Chargers	TAC Cup

Spuds galore - Meanwhile it was almost impossible to miss inside the top 10. We traded up as far as we could to get both Rozee and Butters.

Vs

2019 AFL draft

1	Sam Flanders	Gold Coast	Gippsland Power	NAB League	Traded from Carlton at the draft; received from Adelaide in 2018
12	Kysaiah Pickett+	Melbourne	Woodville-West Torrens	SANFL	Traded from Fremantle; received from St Kilda; received from Port Adelaide
13	Will Day	Hawthorn	West Adelaide	SANFL
14	Miles Bergman	Port Adelaide	Sandringham Dragons	NAB League	Traded from St Kilda; received from GWS; received from Essendon in 2018
15	Cody Weightman	Western Bulldogs	Dandenong Stingrays	NAB League
16	Cooper Stephens	Geelong	Geelong Falcons	NAB League	Traded from West Coast
17	Brodie Kemp	Carlton	Bendigo Pioneers	NAB League	Traded from Gold Coast at the draft; received from Brisbane Lions in 2018
18	Mitch Georgiades	Port Adelaide	Subiaco	WAFL	Traded from Brisbane Lions; received from Collingwood in 2018
19	Sam De Koning	Geelong	Dandenong Stingrays	NAB League
20	Sam Philp	Carlton	Northern Knights	NAB League	Traded from Port Adelaide at the draft; received from St Kilda; received from Greater Western Sydney
21	Thomson Dow	Richmond	Bendigo Pioneers	NAB League
Priority	22	Deven Robertson	Brisbane Lions	Perth	WAFL	Traded from Port Adelaide; received from Carlton at the draft; received from Gold Coast at the draft
2	23	Dylan Williams	Port Adelaide	Oakleigh Chargers	NAB League	Traded from Brisbane Lions; received from Gold Coast in 2018
24	Harry Schoenberg	Adelaide	Woodville-West Torrens	SANFL	Traded from Fremantle; received from Melbourne
25	Jackson Mead	Port Adelaide	Woodville-West Torrens	SANFL	Father–son selection (son of Darren Mead), matched bid by Sydney
26	Will Gould	Sydney	Glenelg	SANFL	Traded from Adelaide at the draft; received from Carlton (via Greater Western Sydney) in 2018
27	Jeremy Sharp	Gold Coast	East Fremantle	WAFL	Traded from Geelong at the draft; received from West Coast; received from Sydney in 2018
28	Josh Worrell	Adelaide	Sandringham Dragons	NAB League	Traded from Sydney at the draft; received from St Kilda in 2018
29	Finn Maginness	Hawthorn	Sandringham Dragons	NAB League	Father–son selection (son of Scott Maginness), matched bid by North Melbourne
30	Harrison Jones	Essendon	Calder Cannons	NAB League	Traded from North Melbourne at the draft; received from Melbourne; received from Fremantle

Players galore 11-30, with 2 players looking like busts in the top 10 (Mcasey and Stephens) + 2 more unavailable as Freo academy players.

We missed in 2009 because there was only 3 good players in the top 20 and 2 of them were gone by our 1st pick. We hit in 2019 because it was difficult to miss. We hit in 2018 because it was impossible to miss until our 3rd pick and we got lucky that we picked well.

Meanwhile premiership sides have been built around 2-3 top 5 draft picks. Hawthorn, Melbourne, and Richmond all propped up by top 5 picks.

There are always sliders, but these days, the best quite often come from the top 5 or so players. There is a genuine question to be asked if pick 9 vs say pick 14 is much different, but top picks are king. Boak and Wines are currently driving our midfield (where were they picked)?

 

[Janus]

Ah yes the underwhelming Lukosius & total footballering.

Stay gold, Ponyboy

 

[Ford Fairlane]

 

[70sDinosaur]

If they both get injured we are now in a position with another pre season for Marshall and Georgiades, and with the acquisition of finlayson, that dixon could ruck full time if we had to. And I think he would be brilliant at it.

You could be right about Dixon. He is good at jumping with one arm up.

 

[wayb2912]

I just went through the past 10 years of pick 12 and pick 14 and almost all of them were better players than pick 16 and Ladhams

On ELS-AN10 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[EskimoPAFC]

1. Wingard- he had to lift his training, look at Boak, Wingard seems to lack the self motivation as great as he could be for us. He's as much to blame as anyone that he didn't become what he should've, hell Clarkson couldn't solve it.

2. Howard- The coaches wanted him to mark more, ala Aliir and play that role, as a big part of our attacking play is set up from the run from behind off the back of intercept marks. That's the reading I had of him being asked to play forward not back. That's on him and he left, good luck to him no knock on him that's footy.

3. Ladhams- we'll have to wait and see what happens with his career. I can't see him being a AA ruckman, or a champion so I'm not as phased with him going as others.

I want Hinkley gone as much as others but we've had DBJ develop into a AA calibre player, Aliir as well, Rozee at times, especially Butters have been developed at the club, Dixon became a AA forward and played career best footy here, same as Ryder while he was here Ollie Wines has developed into a Brownlow medalist under these coaches. Houston could be a AA type player, so we have developed players others we haven't, but that's footy.

I get at the minute, everyone is against everything the club does or has done well after the preliminary final debacle, it's the way it is.

But some of the criticism is just neglecting what good has been done development wise and in other areas.

I'll also add as I'll like get called a happy clapper or something ridiculous I want Hinkley and Koch gone and the club to rebuild under new leadership, but I won't buy into it's all doom and gloom.

Yeah we aren't terrible at player development. Amon is another one you didn't mention, and even blokes like Farrell, Bonner and Watts were really starting to come on before an abrupt finish.

The one area our club is still poor at which needs to be sorted is the technical parts of gameday coaching - the preparation, the gameday moves, the motivation and starts. Clarko, or Pyke, or a competent senior coach that can sort this part out, is seriously the only missing piece for this side.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I just went through the past 10 years of pick 12 and pick 14 and almost all of them were better players than pick 16 and Ladhams

On ELS-AN10 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Corey Ellis?

 

[PowerBaz]

He was offered a one year contract but is yet to sign.

He could be a good junior pickup at the cattery.

 

[Stevros]

Definitely think now we didn’t get a midfielder in the trade market we should try and get either freeman or constable now he’s been delisted as free agents
Or even better get both they both averaged high numbers in disposal at worst our sanfl team will be a lot stronger at best they both push for AFL selection and we have great depth def worth the risk

 

[FightForYourRight]

Definitely think now we didn’t get a midfielder in the trade market we should try and get either freeman or constable now he’s been delisted as free agents
Or even better get both they both averaged high numbers in disposal at worst our sanfl team will be a lot stronger at best they both push for AFL selection and we have great depth def worth the risk

Should give Freeman a shot, seems his body is holding up.

 

[PowerLil]

Trent Hentschel is doing the defence player developement, not sure about the rest.

I think that's Goldsack now.

 

[OneGreatClub]

enough for rankine and luko?

That would be annoying remembering how Hawks did similar and loaded up on high end talent just before the new franchises came in and stuffed the rest of us. When a team bottoms out does make a difference.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

That's nuffy bs. The 2009 draft was a sh*t draft. Martin at 3, Cunnignton (5), and Fyfe (20) with a bunch of spuds in between. All of our misses are there. You have picked 2 very good drafts to compare a sh*t one against.

Lets take your whole post and start at the first premise.

I didn't pick anything. I just listed the players that Janus used as evidence of a strategy. And pointed out how the players chosen to demonstrate a strategy were actually the exact opposite of what was suggested.

 

[Us against the rest]

I think that's Goldsack now.

So much from within, I'm not sure we will see any improvement.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Lets take your whole post and start at the first premise.

I didn't pick anything. I just listed the players that Janus used as evidence of a strategy. And pointed out how the players chosen to demonstrate a strategy were actually the exact opposite of what was suggested.

So Janus is arguing we are playing 4dchess and cd is really a Jedi master again?

 

[PatientMental]

So much from within, I'm not sure we will see any improvement.

That's what happens when the AFL tightens the purse strings