Women's Footy 2022 AFLW Season Discussion (now Player Movement)

[Section 5]

Religion!

Yes
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AFLW player Haneen Zreika won’t play after declining to wear club’s pride jumper

AFLW player won’t play after declining to wear club’s pride jumper

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[briztoon]

Mildly awkward to say the least for both the AFLW & the Giants.

We have a ground breaking role model player, who is boycotting the round due to the pride jumper.

The article states that her team mates are understanding. Well, I guess that article has to say that, but I'm sure that's not quite the truth.

Giants AFLW player to withdraw from match over pride jumper

Giants AFLW player Haneen Zreika has told teammates she has decided to withdraw from the round-four match against the Western Bulldogs after deciding she could not wear the pride jumper for religious reasons.

www.theage.com.au

I don’t see a problem with it. She’s following her beliefs.

 

[BangyBangy]

I don’t see a problem with it. She’s following her beliefs.

And if my beliefs bring me to prejudice against anyone with skin colour different to mine you don't see a problem with that either?

After all I'm just following my beliefs.

 

[briztoon]

And if my beliefs bring me to prejudice against anyone with skin colour different to mine you don't see a problem with that either?

After all I'm just following my beliefs.

Sure. Believe what you want.

I won’t agree with you. But you won’t care.

There are a lot of ****ed up parts of religion out there.

I’m sure there are some born again Christians, or far right religious people who share this same belief.

 

[Ad Astra]

Confession: I enjoy watching the women's team as much as the men's. In fact, I love them more in some ways, probably
because they all seem to be genuinely nice people who really care for each other. And the coach seems a half decent
bloke too, (not that anyone's likely to knock Chris Fagan from his place in my affections.)

I hear from a lot of footyheads, men AND women, that they're grudgingly respectful of women's footy but don't really
follow it because the skill level is nowhere near that of the men's competition and they're only interested in the sport
played at the very highest standard. I get this but I watch WF in a different way , with altered (not reduced) expectations
and greater appreciation of elements of play that I don't give much attention to in the men's game.

It's comparatively low scoring, not just because of short quarters, and some games are fought in the trenches with stoppage
after stoppage and a high number of turnovers. If you're just looking for highlights like speccies and lightning transitions
leading to goals drilled from fifty, these games can be a chore to watch but I love them. (At least, I do if the Lion girls
are on the field.) If you treat every scrimmage or one-on-one tussle as a contest in itself, not just a prelude to a scoring
opportunity, there's immense pleasure to be had in seeing Belle Dawes diving into a pack while being squashed by
three much bigger opponents or Bre Koenen or Shannon Campbell bringing the ball to ground and scrapping and harrying
all the way to the boundary to nullify a forward move. Smothers, shepherds, desperate tackles, tap ons...I get a real
sense of supporter's pride in how brave and fierce these young women are.

Last year's flag was won, I'd say, on the back of a highly organised, intelligent defensive unit that made the better
forward lines look ordinary. But there is real skill and flair in this team as well. We knew Courtney is capable of magic
and now Zimmy is looking like she could be anything. The game against Carlton on Tuesday convinced me that the girls
have improved in skills, fitness and structure. Orla, Jade and Nat Grider were awesome. Their overlap running was
wonderful and despite a few wobbly ones, their kicking was usually to advantage. I suspect Grider is going to become
one of the very best players in the comp. Man she's quick . Tough too and very creative. Ditto Orla. Her kicking seemed
better and will improve in time.There were team plays on tuesday that left me awestruck. Most of them didn't end
in goals but were just beautiful things in themselves.

It's this mixture of toughness, determination, aesthetically pleasing team play and occasional individual brilliance
(viz. Greta Bodey's goal!!) that means I just can't wait for the next game . (I figure that last week's early serious
injuries just knocked morale for six. I've played in games where your star player does a knee in the first quarter
and everyone drops their head and loses that ten percent of will power without which you're not going to perform well.)

And finally, Emily Bates. I've loved watching her from day one. Unheralded, but for mine, she's one of the top five
performers over the short history of the AFLW . Highly skilled, team oriented and looks stronger and fitter than ever.
My favourite player in the league.

 

[Nunez]

Wow Dakota is back - I had it in my head she was gone for the season!

 

[Cubs2Lions]

 

[Hollow Knight]

Did not expect Dakota back for ages. Awesome!

 

[Hollow Knight]

And if my beliefs bring me to prejudice against anyone with skin colour different to mine you don't see a problem with that either?

After all I'm just following my beliefs.

Yeah. Not to mention if a player boycotted multicultural round because they don't want to be seen as supporting Islam, they would be rightfully pilloried for it.

It's a poor look for Zreika. Intolerance in the form of religious dogma is still intolerance. Plus it's just a bloody jumper.

It's a paradox but a tolerant society cannot tolerate intolerance.

 

[Dalions]

Wow Dakota is back - I had it in my head she was gone for the season!

And Conway after her bout with Covid.

 

[BangyBangy]

Yeah. Not to mention if a player boycotted multicultural round because they don't want to be seen as supporting Islam, they would be rightfully pilloried for it.

It's a poor look for Zreika. Intolerance in the form of religious dogma is still intolerance. Plus it's just a bloody jumper.

It's a paradox but a tolerant society cannot tolerate intolerance.

Yep totally agree. If you don't agree with homosexuality because of your religion, no problem, just don't engage in homosexuality. Job done.

But no, that's not enough. I have to boycott the pride jumper. That's the bit I find abhorrent.

The double standards are extraordinary.

 

[briztoon]

Yeah. Not to mention if a player boycotted multicultural round because they don't want to be seen as supporting Islam, they would be rightfully pilloried for it.

It's a poor look for Zreika. Intolerance in the form of religious dogma is still intolerance. Plus it's just a bloody jumper.

It's a paradox but a tolerant society cannot tolerate intolerance.

There’s a really good post on the AFLW board from a Muslim member explaining Zreilka’s decision.

Islam is not the only religion that teaches homosexuality is a sin. Christianity does as well. You’ll find a lot of hard line born again Christian’s will have a similar belief.

But a lot Western churches have relaxed/changed their “rules/beliefs” in the face of dramatically waning congregations.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Best teams by far this year are Melbourne, Adelaide, Freo, North and Brisbane. One of these teams will win the flag IMO. Other teams very unlikely with several very ordinary sides. And they want to add more sides.

 

[Section 5]

Best teams by far this year are Melbourne, Adelaide, Freo, North and Brisbane. One of these teams will win the flag IMO. Other teams very unlikely with several very ordinary sides. And they want to add more sides.

Hope you are right
But 1 week at a time for us.
Just need to claw our way back into the top 4 and start with beating the Cats this week. Assuming the fixture stays as is

 

[Hollow Knight]

There’s a really good post on the AFLW board from a Muslim member explaining Zreilka’s decision.

Islam is not the only religion that teaches homosexuality is a sin. Christianity does as well. You’ll find a lot of hard line born again Christian’s will have a similar belief.

But a lot Western churches have relaxed/changed their “rules/beliefs” in the face of dramatically waning congregations.

And if a player boycotted the pride round citing their Christian beliefs I’d be equally critical.

 

[dlanod]

Was just looking up if anything similar had happened with Houli in the past, as the other obvious example of a practicing Muslim - he even obeyed Ramadan during the season, which is mental. Didn't find anything but did find an article mentioning GAblett and Matthew Kennedy both liking Folau's "Hell awaits you" message - all quietly swept under the carpet.

 

[POBT]

I really don't think this is what organisations have in mind when they talk about inclusion - a person from one marginalised group feeling excluded due to her religious beliefs because of the inclusion of others. Or, to reverse it, people who are often treated differently due to their gender or sexuality finding out someone they have included doesn't accept them.

I do give some credit for the way Zreika has gone about it. No histrionics or hate speech that I've seen. I really liked her mother's comment that they brought her up to be respectful of the beliefs of others but true to her own. That seems like a reasonable way to live your life.

Unfortunately though, as a public figure, even the mere withdrawal from the game is a "statement" and leaves her open to scrutiny and criticism. That's the reality.

I think it's a really nuanced and difficult issue. I spoke to some people at work who hadn't followed the issue and the "flinch" reaction was to criticise Zreika for not being inclusive when the sport had reached out to include her. But then it moved to "well, I guess inclusion should also mean that she should feel included even if her beliefs differ from that of the team/club/code." But then, how do you include her when she refuses to be included in something the rest of the team believes in?

I also ask who are we to judge which beliefs of a religion are worthy and which are not? I mean, Pat Cummins was applauded when he stopped the spraying of champagne because it meant Ussie Khawaja couldn't celebrate with the team. Same religion, same set of values. Different social perception. (And I am conscious that I'm talking about Islam as a single set of beliefs which is hardly the case)

The easy answer might be that we as a society generally accept others' views but we don't bow to a belief system (eg a religion) which preaches intolerance for a person or action that otherwise does no harm. In other words "a sin in the eyes of god" isn't enough. I think that's a pipe dream though. Almost everyone has a belief system that could be criticised by others as contradictory or nonsensical in some aspects, regardless of whether it is founded in religion or not.

The other thing I am trying to keep at the forefront of my mind is that we're talking about a young 22yo who probably just wants to play footy. She's not on a $1m a year. She's not a professional. She's a role model but gets none of the trappings that normally go along with being a prominent sports person.

Maybe she's making the wrong decision but I have ****ed up plenty of times in my past at least in part because I didn't have my own values clear in my mind. **** me, at about the same age, I voted John Howard in 1996!

Long story short. I wish Zeika had made a different decision but I think I accept her right to make it. Further, having made the decision she has, I think she's tried to minimise the divisiveness of that decision. If she uses this as a platform to spread a message of intolerance, I will be more critical.

 

[On the quiet]

Yep totally agree. If you don't agree with homosexuality because of your religion, no problem, just don't engage in homosexuality. Job done.

But no, that's not enough. I have to boycott the pride jumper. That's the bit I find abhorrent.

The double standards are extraordinary.

Interesting Norther Ireland case regarding a bakery not making a wedding cake with gay messages, as it would be contrary to the owners of the bakery religious beliefs. Gay couple sued on essentially discrimination grounds and lost. Zreika probably under immense pressure regarding the decision, and will be interesting to see if her team mates are supportive.

 

[lionraven]

I think too much is being asked of a 22yo part timer. She has already moved the needle plenty for someone working a part time gigbfor around 20k per year. Before her I would not be able to name you a single female aussie Muslim athlete. Her first season was all long shorts and sleeves. She's now out there in a guernsey. It's tough to ask her to keep pushing the needle further and further against all those other forces in her cultural group, especially as a 22 year old.

 

[BangyBangy]

Interesting Norther Ireland case regarding a bakery not making a wedding cake with gay messages, as it would be contrary to the owners of the bakery religious beliefs. Gay couple sued on essentially discrimination grounds and lost. Zreika probably under immense pressure regarding the decision, and will be interesting to see if her team mates are supportive.

Lol, legal action is a bit over the top. Not unhappy they lost to be honest. Can't be too hard to go elsewhere & find a gay friendly pastry chef. Sounds like less effort than commencing legal action.

 

[POBT]

Lol, legal action is a bit over the top. Not unhappy they lost to be honest. Can't be too hard to go elsewhere & find a gay friendly pastry chef. Sounds like less effort than commencing legal action.

It's all on a continuum though, right? Cake making seems innocuous. What if it were a wedding venue denying access due to sexuality? What if a doctor said "I don't treat gay people"? What if government services were denied to people due to their sexuality? I don't know where the line is between "over the top" and standing up for yourself.

I kinda get the couple in that case's anger and respect their right to take legal action. For me though, I agree with you - I personally wouldn't let it bother me I don't think but then again, I'm a 44yo white, straight male so I'm hardly prejudiced.

Back to the footy, I love how clubs and the code take a stand on important social issues. We need our institutions to be active and vocal and the "we're a sports club, we shouldn't be getting into this stuff" argument shouldn't frighten the club away from being agents of change, particularly when not to do so is so offensive to some of your key constituents. I mean, I don't know how people could listen to Ah Chee or Cockatoo and not understand why "change the date" is meaningful for them and how the club's active support doesn't make them feel more included.


We can't pretend it's not going to be divisive though. It's rare that you can take a stand without offending some. Our club's stand on things like equality aligns with my personal beliefs so it's easy for me - it must be hard if you don't believe in the same things the club is committing to.

 

[Jivlain]

Just an ankle sprain for Taylor Smith which is really good to hear.

 

[Dalions]

It's all on a continuum though, right? Cake making seems innocuous. What if it were a wedding venue denying access due to sexuality? What if a doctor said "I don't treat gay people"? What if government services were denied to people due to their sexuality? I don't know where the line is between "over the top" and standing up for yourself.

I kinda get the couple in that case's anger and respect their right to take legal action. For me though, I agree with you - I personally wouldn't let it bother me I don't think but then again, I'm a 44yo white, straight male so I'm hardly prejudiced.

Back to the footy, I love how clubs and the code take a stand on important social issues. We need our institutions to be active and vocal and the "we're a sports club, we shouldn't be getting into this stuff" argument shouldn't frighten the club away from being agents of change, particularly when not to do so is so offensive to some of your key constituents. I mean, I don't know how people could listen to Ah Chee or Cockatoo and not understand why "change the date" is meaningful for them and how the club's active support doesn't make them feel more included.


We can't pretend it's not going to be divisive though. It's rare that you can take a stand without offending some. Our club's stand on things like equality aligns with my personal beliefs so it's easy for me - it must be hard if you don't believe in the same things the club is committing to.

Isn’t it exactly the same thing though?

One person not being able to accept another persons sexual preferences.
Or one person not being able to accept someone’s religious beliefs.

Doesn’t mean one is right and one is wrong because in their own minds they are right.

 

[POBT]

Isn’t it exactly the same thing though?

One person not being able to accept another persons sexual preferences.
Or one person not being able to accept someone’s religious beliefs.

Doesn’t mean one is right and one is wrong because in their own minds they are right.

I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean is the same thing?

If you are saying we should treat religious freedom and gender/sexuality equality the same then I agree. The conundrum here is that pursuing inclusion has resulted in exclusion. It highlights the challenge and the fact that there are no simple solutions.

 

[Dalions]

I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean is the same thing?

If you are saying we should treat religious freedom and gender/sexuality equality the same then I agree. The conundrum here is that pursuing inclusion has resulted in exclusion. It highlights the challenge and the fact that there are no simple solutions.

Perfect explanation of what I was trying to get to, thanks.

Further to that I just don’t really think that anyone who is neither one nor the other, has the right to criticise either party for their choices.

I don’t personally see that Zreika has done anything at all offensive.

It’s probably more the media that try to make it more offensive than it was handled internally.