No Oppo Supporters 2022 General AFL Discussion

[scaryness]

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No Oppo Supporters - 2023 General AFLW Discussion

First week of AFLW already knee injuries galore

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Tedeski]

Someone can be a really warm lovely man and still make decisions which are informed by racist attitudes. Like both those claims that Fagan is a top bloke and the other claims can be true at once.

Racism isn't this seething hatred. In this context it's the idea that these men aren't able to navigate their family relationships etc themselves. It's a paternalistic idea of "we know what's best for them".

Yeah, nah!

Too much over thinking going on here on other people's behalf.

It is being investigated.
If these men genuinely had bad intentions here, then they will suffer the consequences.
If they had nothing of the sort, then they are still suffering the consequences.

If through all of this, the main objective is to punish such people, even before being heard, then pity help us all. Except for the always righteous among us.

 

[Tedeski]

To be fair I have never liked Clarkson and always saw him as a hyper aggressive hypocrite with little man syndrome.

That's offensive to my short Italian father who had similar traits.
Just with an accent. He wasn't racist. He hated everyone the same.

 

[Deccas]

Yeah, nah!

Too much over thinking going on here on other people's behalf.

It is being investigated.
If these men genuinely had bad intentions here, then they will suffer the consequences.
If they had nothing of the sort, then they are still suffering the consequences.

If through all of this, the main objective is to punish such people, even before being heard, then pity help us all. Except for the always righteous among us.

Good Intentions don't make racism go away. The Stolen Generation was apparently good intentions right. "We just want what's best for the kids" etc. They need Christ, they need real jobs etc. All comes from this assumption that white society is better and that Indigenous people are children who don't know what's best for themselves.

Imagine this is your son. He's away from the family and you try to talk every day etc. One day his phone is disconnected and you can't get into him at all. If the person that did that sort of harm had good intentions or bad ones it doesn't really change how you experienced that moment of losing touch with your kid. The confusion and pain and worry about it all.

The idea that the coaches good blokes or not, thought it was appropriate to excommunicate indigenous men from their families is racist. The idea that these grown men can't manage thier own affairs is treating them as children incapable of directing thier own lives.

 

[bedford]

Yep, okay these are only allegations fine but the allegations made are of a racial nature so a white guy coming out and saying all these guys are so great because they treated me great really doesn't help anything. If anything it just kind of says "They treated me, a white guy better". He shouldn't have said anything imo. If you want to show them support call them up, text them, whatever.

But scum like Wilson and Robbo can print what they want , no comebacks on them is there .

 

[bedford]

Yeah, nah!

Too much over thinking going on here on other people's behalf.

It is being investigated.
If these men genuinely had bad intentions here, then they will suffer the consequences.
If they had nothing of the sort, then they are still suffering the consequences.

If through all of this, the main objective is to punish such people, even before being heard, then pity help us all. Except for the always righteous among us.

A few of them that think their poo don't stink

 

[Deccas]

But scum like Wilson and Robbo can print what they want , no comebacks on them is there .

Having bad opinions on footy is obviously not in the same ball park as pressuring a player to excommunicate thier family and terminate a pregnancy. These guys know full well the coaches are who decides if they get another contract or not.

 

[bedford]

Good Intentions don't make racism go away. The Stolen Generation was apparently good intentions right. "We just want what's best for the kids" etc. They need Christ, they need real jobs etc. All comes from this assumption that white society is better and that Indigenous people are children who don't know what's best for themselves.

Imagine this is your son. He's away from the family and you try to talk every day etc. One day his phone is disconnected and you can't get into him at all. If the person that did that sort of harm had good intentions or bad ones it doesn't really change how you experienced that moment of losing touch with your kid. The confusion and pain and worry about it all.

The idea that the coaches good blokes or not, thought it was appropriate to excommunicate indigenous men from their families is racist. The idea that these grown men can't manage thier own affairs is treating them as children incapable of directing thier own lives.

They got him another phone , now that hasn't come out !
As i said leave it till it goes to a court etc

 

[bedford]

Having bad opinions on footy is obviously not in the same ball park as pressuring a player to excommunicate thier family and terminate a pregnancy. These guys know full well the coaches are who decides if they get another contract or not.

How long did that take to work out , wouldn't want you as a judge

 

[Deccas]

How long did that take to work out , wouldn't want you as a judge

Can think of a few juries you'd fit right into.

 

[MK38]

Why?
Trial by media means he SHOULD do it publicly because he is genuine about his thoughts.

In the context of the allegations ie as I said these allegations are of a racial nature a white man saying I was treated great by these men means nothing, it's insensitive and it's actually in poor form imo. As you keep saying he hasnt been proven guilty but he hasn't been shown to be innocent either. So if you think it is unfair for people to react as if he is guilty imo it is poor form to show such glowing public support just because your experience with the men accused was a good one. It doesnt mean others had the same experience. Each to their own but if I was him I would wait and see what happens just as everyone keeps on saying as he is pretty much saying they are great men when they could be just the opposite.

 

[bedford]

In the context of the allegations ie as I said these allegations are of a racial nature a white man saying I was treated great by these men means nothing, it's insensitive and it's actually in poor form imo. As you keep saying he hasnt been proven guilty but he hasn't been shown to be innocent either. So if you think it is unfair for people to react as if he is guilty imo it is poor form to show such glowing public support just because your experience with the men accused was a good one. It doesnt mean others had the same experience. Each to their own but if I was him I would wait and see what happens just as everyone keeps on saying as he is pretty much saying they are great men when they could be just the opposite.

So everyone needs to let it go until the truth comes out

 

[bedford]

Can think of a few juries you'd fit right into.

Not interested , have knocked the chance back to sit on one , not up to me to judge on others .

 

[MK38]

But scum like Wilson and Robbo can print what they want , no comebacks on them is there .

I guess I just find it really insensitive to say "I had a great experience" with men who potentially did some pretty horrible things. I am also not necessarily saying they are guilty because none of us know. Not you, not I. I have my thoughts on the issue but I will just say if I heard such horrible allegations I would not then make a statement saying how great these people were to me. Because you know what just because you like someone or they treated you well it doesn't mean they treated everyone the same.

 

[bedford]

What a s h i t week

 

[SGBeach]

What a s h i t week

only 165 days until round 1

Edit: Swans by 6 goals

 

[Millky95]

only 165 days until round 1

Edit: Swans by 6 goals

Why? We'll play Geelong in Melbourne and lose

 

[bedford]

Why? We'll play Geelong in Melbourne and lose

Play them at Geelong and win

 

[swanssince2002]

I've gotten over the sad loss that was this time last week. Problem is waiting almost half a year for the next game.

Well at least other things will keep me occupied for the time being.

 

[MK38]

So everyone needs to let it go until the truth comes out

I think there is no issue people discussing it since the report came out. But having said that yes I don't think it is right to say they are definitely innocent or guilty. I personally think at least some of the stuff is probably true. But of course it is what I think not what I know. But back to Hodge's statement which was what I was initially referring to I don't think it was great at all.

 

[bedford]

I think there is no issue people discussing it since the report came out. But having said that yes I don't think it is right to say they are definitely innocent or guilty. I personally think at least some of the stuff is probably true. But of course it is what I think not what I know. But back to Hodge's statement which was what I was initially referring to I don't think it was great at all.

But that's what people are saying , that their guilty

 

[MK38]

But that's what people are saying , that their guilty

Yep and they shouldn't. Like I have said I also think Hodge shouldn't have made his statement. I haven't really wanted to post much about the issue as we don't know the truth yet and the allegations are truly horrible and shocking. But I really had an issue with Hodge's statement so just commented on that. I probably won't comment on the issue again as we don't know the truth but if the allegations are true I hope everyone faces the consequences. I also hope a proper investigation occurs.

 

[bedford]

Yep and they shouldn't. Like I have said I also think Hodge shouldn't have made his statement. I haven't really wanted to post much about the issue as we don't know the truth yet and the allegations are truly horrible and shocking. But I really had an issue with Hodge's statement so just commented on that. I probably won't comment on the issue again as we don't know the truth but if the allegations are true I hope everyone faces the consequences. I also hope a proper investigation occurs.

That's what most decent people would want , not a lynching mob

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Its just so difficult to hear a human being saying it in black and white terms like that at another human being.

Hard to believe even Clarko is that cold and sadistic.

I have no doubt the conversation around that would of happened but the context of the words used could be vastly different.

 

[mattpolo8]

Play them at Geelong and win

Absolutely. Unfurl the flag down there, beat them, and it will be a true changing of the guard. The old out, the young in.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

It does appear that Clarko is pretty ruthless in getting the best out of his players, you don't achieve that sort of success without having an element of ruthlessness in such a cut throat industry. And I'd imagine he'd think it's his role as the coach to set a high bar and challenge his players to reach that standard of professionalism. I'd also say that poor decisions made by a player, irrespective of race, would be met with the same response by Clarko.

The ex comminication aspects are the parts that don't sit well with me (if true), and irrespective of race, I'd say there's a certain point that a coach or anyone in a position of power shouldn't cross, and that's dictating what a player should do. Stern conversations need to take place within any sporting club, part of what a coach needs to do is challenge players to become better players, and part of that is making wise decisions off the field.

That's probably where the issue lies, rather than being a racism issue, it may be more about overreach. And if that is seen to be the case, then perhaps it's a case of altering or softening their approach rather than Caros suggestion that Fagan and Clarko should never coach again.

The AFL is littered with stories of players who had all the skills/attributes, but didn't have the application to get the most out of themselves (Davis being one, and Reid admitting to it this year). I think there are some boundaries that shouldn't be crossed. The whole lead a horse to water saying... perhaps coaches need to think before making them drink.