Training 2022 Pre-season

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a mayes ing said:
Can't comment on all the Melbourne players as l don't watch them that much but l wouldn't be surprised if what they said was true in regards to some of our players not running both ways. However, l am sure every team has a few players who don't run hard both ways either.
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there are still a couple one way skiers in the Demons line up. Not sure Sideshow Bob much better defensively then Joe.
I think the difference is the run and overlap. They have a lot of players who cover the ground better then we have.
Robbo might gut run although Langdon glides from contest to contest. So do a few of them of Half back compared to us
Half back we zone players instead of run. Birchall gone now so hopefully Kiddy,Answerth or Madden playing that spot make a difference
Also late in the season we had Harris (bad knee), Neale, Berry, Zorko all not 100% and Cocky and Gardiner underdone.

A fully fit Lions team be interesting.
 
a mayes ing said:
Can't comment on all the Melbourne players as l don't watch them that much but l wouldn't be surprised if what they said was true in regards to some of our players not running both ways. However, l am sure every team has a few players who don't run hard both ways either.
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True.

It's all very well to say your players need to run hard both ways ,everyone wants that, but the reality is that some of your players don't have the tank or capacity to do it. And the ones you replace them with might be too deficient in other important skill , hardness or defensive areas.

Generally it always gets back to the overall quality of your list . If you have a lot of great players and plenty of good ones you can do a lot more with them than if you're forced to play players who are deficient in certain areas.
 
Dalions said:
They had a fully fit team last year, we didn’t.
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I think this is a bit simplistic. Our team defence looked best in the middle of the season, when we were hardly at full strength in our midfield, in terms of personnel.

morsie said:
Watching the Fox season preview the consensus of the commentators was that Melbourne play Team Defence and that Brisbane are not quite there I.e some players don't run both ways.
Such anaylis is way above my paygrade especially as I only watch on TV.
Any thoughts?
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That said, I think Melbourne last year came as close to anyone has to "solving" defence in Aussie rules. It was almost an Americanisation of the game, whereby as soon as they lost the contest, every player knew their role, as in "you go there and do that". You know, the old "you've got one job". Their grid-like formation was almost like looking at a piece of graph paper superimposed over a footy field.

The most beautiful aspect of the way they played was the way they were able to transition so effectively from that defensive mode into attack. We really saw it for the first time in that ANZAC Day eve match against Richmond, where they had more handballs than kicks in driving rain, and won comfortably more incredibly. Then it culminated in the finals with 40 goals against (apparently) the 2 next best teams in it. That was no accident, although it came admittedly with a bit of help from the 6-6-6 rule.

For the last 25 years or so, the evolution of footy strategy has focused predominantly on defence, and scoring levels have followed. I think we are well due for a revolution in attack, and provided we can nail the "team defence" aspect better than we did last year, I think our guys are going to have a fair bit of say in this.
 

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a mayes ing said:
Can't comment on all the Melbourne players as l don't watch them that much but l wouldn't be surprised if what they said was true in regards to some of our players not running both ways. However, l am sure every team has a few players who don't run hard both ways either.
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martinson said:
True.

It's all very well to say your players need to run hard both ways ,everyone wants that, but the reality is that some of your players don't have the tank or capacity to do it. And the ones you replace them with might be too deficient in other important skill , hardness or defensive areas.

Generally it always gets back to the overall quality of your list . If you have a lot of great players and plenty of good ones you can do a lot more with them than if you're forced to play players who are deficient in certain areas.
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I think both these comments are pretty accurate. But one team wins the flag each year and that team probably has the most/best two way runners. It was definitely the case last year, probably the case for Richmond. We can debate the reasons why some players/teams run both ways, and others don't... maybe it's motivational, maybe it's fitness, but at the end of the day the reasons really only matter to the coaches, as they're the ones trying to change that behaviour. One team wins the flag every year, 17 don't, so those 17 probably don't have enough two-way runners.
 
While Melbourne’s defence is impressive. I saw it it more as a well organised flood who when they get it back are explosive enough to get over the top or cut through an opposition defence on the rebound. They’ve got the tools to do it, good on them.

I don’t think it’s got enough attention from media, not that I’m after it, but we troubled them more than any other team in my eyes. We just couldn’t sustain it long enough.
Still think we have the tools to take it to them again. One on one are susceptible like other teams. They struggle with Charlie.
We just have to work out how to negate their clearance work once they start getting on top.
 
The Zork said:
we troubled them more than any other team in my eyes. We just couldn’t sustain it long enough.
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Absolutely. The biggest change in that game that I saw (I went to the game here in Sydney, but had to watch from the wing, which is never great from a strategic perspective), was that in the first half our talls were marking everything, but after that Lever and May got on top. And their midfield got into motion off the back of that dominance.

By the way, it wasn't that different in 2020, when we were probably saved against Melbourne by the shorter quarters and had built a handy enough cushion by 3QT.

I'm a big advocate for playing a mobile tall in almost a tagging role on Lever. A guy like Fullarton or Payne would be ideal for this. Doesn't have to outmark him, just play on Lever and annoy the hell out of him. And if he's mobile as well, he has the chance to hurt Lever going back the other way as well, forcing him to be accountable. He's not "all that" when he's forced to play one-on-one with someone, which we showed against them in the first half last season.
 
Grasshopper17 said:
Absolutely. The biggest change in that game that I saw (I went to the game here in Sydney, but had to watch from the wing, which is never great from a strategic perspective), was that in the first half our talls were marking everything, but after that Lever and May got on top. And their midfield got into motion off the back of that dominance.

By the way, it wasn't that different in 2020, when we were probably saved against Melbourne by the shorter quarters and had built a handy enough cushion by 3QT.

I'm a big advocate for playing a mobile tall in almost a tagging role on Lever. A guy like Fullarton or Payne would be ideal for this. Doesn't have to outmark him, just play on Lever and annoy the hell out of him. And if he's mobile as well, he has the chance to hurt Lever going back the other way as well, forcing him to be accountable. He's not "all that" when he's forced to play one-on-one with someone, which we showed against them in the first half last season.
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I watched Lever reasonably closely and he was often out of his depth if he didn't mark because his skill level and decision making when the ball was on the ground wasn't overly flash. So you have to stop him marking. Melbourne looked rattled at points against us but in the end we weren't fit enough and/or didn't have the personnel to sustain those periods.

If we put their backline under enough pressure they'll crack . To do that you need to be bringing it in the way they do which ultimately gets back to more, stronger players in the M/F to counter their engine room or at least be doing the same thing as often as they are and I think that's what Fagan and the coaches have flagged in the pre season.
 
martinson said:
I watched Lever reasonably closely and he was often out of his depth if he didn't mark because his skill level and decision making when the ball was on the ground wasn't overly flash. So you have to stop him marking.
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Which is why I like Fullarton playing a spoiling role on him. Sure, he has his detractors around here and I know he has a long long way to go, but he has height on his side, and then is very good given his height at ground level, so would be an asset once the ball comes to ground.

Plus if nothing else Lever will take him to the ball so will be an excellent education in things like reading the play, in addition to contesting against an All Australian.
 
Grasshopper17 said:
Which is why I like Fullarton playing a spoiling role on him. Sure, he has his detractors around here and I know he has a long long way to go, but he has height on his side, and then is very good given his height at ground level, so would be an asset once the ball comes to ground.

Plus if nothing else Lever will take him to the ball so will be an excellent education in things like reading the play, in addition to contesting against an All Australian.
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Overall the Melbourne defence set up caught everyone unawares this season.

May and Lever aren't as good as they looked this year and the better teams won't let them get away with it in 2022 . They got too many easy uncontested intercepts for most of 2021.

Having said that they've got 3 absolute champs in their M/F with another couple of players who are very good . I don't see anything changing there so they'll always be very tough to beat.
 
Grasshopper17 said:
I think both these comments are pretty accurate. But one team wins the flag each year and that team probably has the most/best two way runners. It was definitely the case last year, probably the case for Richmond. We can debate the reasons why some players/teams run both ways, and others don't... maybe it's motivational, maybe it's fitness, but at the end of the day the reasons really only matter to the coaches, as they're the ones trying to change that behaviour. One team wins the flag every year, 17 don't, so those 17 probably don't have enough two-way runners.
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Bit too much feng shuwei, yong grasshopper :)
 
Grasshopper17 said:
I think this is a bit simplistic. Our team defence looked best in the middle of the season, when we were hardly at full strength in our midfield, in terms of personnel.


That said, I think Melbourne last year came as close to anyone has to "solving" defence in Aussie rules. It was almost an Americanisation of the game, whereby as soon as they lost the contest, every player knew their role, as in "you go there and do that". You know, the old "you've got one job". Their grid-like formation was almost like looking at a piece of graph paper superimposed over a footy field.

The most beautiful aspect of the way they played was the way they were able to transition so effectively from that defensive mode into attack. We really saw it for the first time in that ANZAC Day eve match against Richmond, where they had more handballs than kicks in driving rain, and won comfortably more incredibly. Then it culminated in the finals with 40 goals against (apparently) the 2 next best teams in it. That was no accident, although it came admittedly with a bit of help from the 6-6-6 rule.

For the last 25 years or so, the evolution of footy strategy has focused predominantly on defence, and scoring levels have followed. I think we are well due for a revolution in attack, and provided we can nail the "team defence" aspect better than we did last year, I think our guys are going to have a fair bit of say in this.
Click to expand...
Have a lot of Melbourne supporter friends si have watched a lot and talked with them about their team a heap over the last few years. When 6-6-6 first came in it screwed them. They were one of the more creative teams about centre square set ups and using extra inside types off the back of the square. But with all their injuries they didn't have time to adjust in that off-season. To their credit they recruited better run in Landgon and really took 12-18 months to build that team running and defence back up.

They really were incredibly well drilled on where to work back and cover their area. But then had the fitness to push forward when it was time to go. Personally think that extra ability for the wings to push back is an area we need to improve in.

Also their poaching of a certain fitness staff leading to their lowest injury rate for a long time really helped
 
Grasshopper17 said:
Which is why I like Fullarton playing a spoiling role on him. Sure, he has his detractors around here and I know he has a long long way to go, but he has height on his side, and then is very good given his height at ground level, so would be an asset once the ball comes to ground.

Plus if nothing else Lever will take him to the ball so will be an excellent education in things like reading the play, in addition to contesting against an All Australian.
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Once Hipwood is fit then it has to be him and Daniher, Mcstay as our key forwards. You couldn't play Fullarton as well.

If you want to make May more accountable i'd be going with McStay. He has the discipline to play the role. However I think Melbourne tend to do a bit of a tandem act with either Lever or May becoming that lose player. So it would need to be a bit of a team effort from us.

As others have mentioned we went well against them in the first half at Giants stadium. The key was delivery. We were on top in the midfield and also didn't blaze away. Blazing away never ideal but it is particularly ineffective against Melbourne. Good to see we have been training for better entries over the pre season as our tend to just bomb it seems to increase the higher stakes the game is.
 

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Timetoroarlike44 said:
Once Hipwood is fit then it has to be him and Daniher, Mcstay as our key forwards. You couldn't play Fullarton as well.

If you want to make May more accountable i'd be going with McStay. He has the discipline to play the role. However I think Melbourne tend to do a bit of a tandem act with either Lever or May becoming that lose player. So it would need to be a bit of a team effort from us.

As others have mentioned we went well against them in the first half at Giants stadium. The key was delivery. We were on top in the midfield and also didn't blaze away. Blazing away never ideal but it is particularly ineffective against Melbourne. Good to see we have been training for better entries over the pre season as our tend to just bomb it seems to increase the higher stakes the game is.
Click to expand...
We went well in the first half because we kept Gawn, Oliver & Petracca quiet. In the 2nd half Oliver & Gawn smashed us. The ball rarely came into our forward line in the 2nd half so the quality of the way it came into our forward 50 was irrelevant. I would back our full strength forward line against Melbourne's defence every day of the week. The key to beating Melbourne is to keep those 3 blokes (Gawn, Oliver & Petracca) relatively quiet. Our bottom 6 is much better & stronger than theirs.
 
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Nunez said:
Did more good than bad so can handle the dessert ;)
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Agree against the lesser sides. Against the good sides they will make us pay. He was in everything which was good but he still has a lot of improvement for me to pick him as one of our best. For me on Saturday he wasn't.
 
Mighty Lions said:
Agree against the lesser sides. Against the good sides they will make us pay. He was in everything which was good but he still has a lot of improvement for me to pick him as one of our best. For me on Saturday he wasn't.
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I believe that Berry would do pretty well with a 'tag' role on Oliver. He went toe-to-toe with the Freo boys last year so it might be time to see how he goes with one of the premier mids in the comp.
 
Mighty Lions said:
Agree against the lesser sides. Against the good sides they will make us pay. He was in everything which was good but he still has a lot of improvement for me to pick him as one of our best. For me on Saturday he wasn't.
Click to expand...

Yeah look it was a pre season game against one of the spoon favourites so even the good performances aren't much to write home about and rusty. The fact he's running so well, tackling and scoring is very promising for the season proper.
 

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Training 2022 Pre-season

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