Training 2022 Pre-season

[Section 5]

Honestly I think he would make a big enough difference in the middle to be worth it. I thought the game against Freo later in the season was when our midfield looked really balanced and probably at its best for me and it was made up of Lyons, McCluggage and Berry. Obviously a fully fit Neale probably changes that but Hugh's running power and class through the middle could be a real difference maker. I also like the depth and quality we have that play his spot on the wing.

When someone best 22 is injured the team difference is only what one player is over the one replacing them
So in this game and others Mathieson replaced Neale
So as a team we lose out in the quality of the player out. Neale 2021 average disposals is 27.1 v the inclusion Mathieson averaging 15.4.
Just bare stats as we all know their is a big difference in the two players. Although they bring different attributes to the game

Regarding the Freemantle game i can't recall if Hugh played more midfield time than usual but he probably did
Mathieson played 73% TOG that day. Neale has an average of 88% over the last 3 years. So some mids would have spent more time in the middle to make up that 15%. Hugh may have done it all. However it may have also been spread around over the other mids but maybe a bit more time for Hugh

Lets assume Hugh was pure mid that day. He got 29 disposals with 79% TOG that's basic stats only
Hugh's average for 2021 is 25 disposals with 82.6% TOG. So he got 4 more disposals but was on the ground 3.6% less time

As i mentioned before Hugh, won't normally replace Neale or Lyons, nor did he this game
If one of them were dropped and Hugh moves into their spot (won't happen) we are a faster midfield but not necessarily a better midfield or team
If Hugh comes in fulltime it is to replace Zorko & Bailey's time in the middle plus others that run through there. Don't think he adds any more running power than those two. Class wise maybe overtaking an aging Zorko and just ahead of Bailey at present

Regarding the bolded. I don't see much quality there yet. Maybe in a few seasons. Certainly nobody near enough for AA 40 material 3 years running

 

[jjami15]

Do u think Hugh can be as good as or better than McRea this season?

Are we talking about Jackson Macrae? He can get the ball thats for sure but it kind of reminds me about Nathan Buckey's comments about Tom Mitchell getting 50+. For me JAckson Macrae is one of the most over-rated players in the comp. If Hugh could get the same amount of time in the middle like Macrae then he would go past IMO.

 

[bungalow_bill]

If Hugh can be more consistent next season there's no reason why he can't win the Brownlow IMO.

And just looked up the 2021 brownlow votes out of curiosity and surprisingly Keays finished up with 1 more vote than Hugh

 

[mattsmob]

Do u think Hugh can be as good as or better than McRea this season?

If he plays full-time mid then I think he is much more damaging, if he still splits time between wing and middle then his ceiling is a bit capped imo.

 

[mattsmob]

When someone best 22 is injured the team difference is only what one player is over the one replacing them
So in this game and others Mathieson replaced Neale
So as a team we lose out in the quality of the player out. Neale 2021 average disposals is 27.1 v the inclusion Mathieson averaging 15.4.
Just bare stats as we all know their is a big difference in the two players. Although they bring different attributes to the game

Regarding the Freemantle game i can't recall if Hugh played more midfield time than usual but he probably did
Mathieson played 73% TOG that day. Neale has an average of 88% over the last 3 years. So some mids would have spent more time in the middle to make up that 15%. Hugh may have done it all. However it may have also been spread around over the other mids but maybe a bit more time for Hugh

Lets assume Hugh was pure mid that day. He got 29 disposals with 79% TOG that's basic stats only
Hugh's average for 2021 is 25 disposals with 82.6% TOG. So he got 4 more disposals but was on the ground 3.6% less time

As i mentioned before Hugh, won't normally replace Neale or Lyons, nor did he this game
If one of them were dropped and Hugh moves into their spot (won't happen) we are a faster midfield but not necessarily a better midfield or team
If Hugh comes in fulltime it is to replace Zorko & Bailey's time in the middle plus others that run through there. Don't think he adds any more running power than those two. Class wise maybe overtaking an aging Zorko and just ahead of Bailey at present

Regarding the bolded. I don't see much quality there yet. Maybe in a few seasons. Certainly nobody near enough for AA 40 material 3 years running

Appreciate the work you've put in but I think when we're talking the damage and class of Hugh in the middle compared to other guys the stats don't tell the full story.
Absolutely agree we don't have another winger as good as Hugh but guys like Prior, Ah Chee and Sharp all look like they have the ability to play on the wing to a decent level.
I'm of the opinion that if McCluggage played full-time mid and averaged 26-28 touches he'd be very comfortably in the conversation for our best player which would make the move worth it even if we lose a little on the wing.

 

[Lace Out]

I reckon Clug is probably more damaging in less congested areas where he can use his kicking for delivery into the forwards..not saying he couldn’t play mid but wouldn’t like to see him do it more than about 40%

 

[ManeMan]

Are we talking about Jackson Macrae? He can get the ball thats for sure but it kind of reminds me about Nathan Buckey's comments about Tom Mitchell getting 50+. For me JAckson Macrae is one of the most over-rated players in the comp. If Hugh could get the same amount of time in the middle like Macrae then he would go past IMO.

I've got to disagree here. Macrae is a gun. His ball use is fantastic, and damaging. He is AA 3 years running. I don't think comparing him to to Tom Mitchell is fair.

Hugh still needs to sharpen up his ball use. Obviously he is capable of some brilliant kicks, but he is also still prone to squib kicks and kicking into the man on the mark pretty often. If he can reduce how often he does that, and lose the yips in front of goal he can go past Macrae. Still work to be done.

 

[Towno78]

Training at Hawthorne park atm, if you want to have a look

 

[Dalions]

Training at Hawthorne park atm, if you want to have a look

At the Morningside Panthers?

 

[Fagenslions36]

convert his goal kicking so he is kicking 25-30 per year

Maybe not as an inside mid but as a balanced mid surely, hard to see what more he can do playing on a wing.

 

[jjami15]

I've got to disagree here. Macrae is a gun. His ball use is fantastic, and damaging. He is AA 3 years running. I don't think comparing him to to Tom Mitchell is fair.

Hugh still needs to sharpen up his ball use. Obviously he is capable of some brilliant kicks, but he is also still prone to squib kicks and kicking into the man on the mark pretty often. If he can reduce how often he does that, and lose the yips in front of goal he can go past Macrae. Still work to be done.

Not a direct comparison to Mitchell but more linking to Buckley’s comments about the possessions not being damaging but that’s where we differ in our opinion. Macrae also is placed on the wing in the AA team and he plays as an inside midfielder. The players might see AA as a marker of success but I don’t. The just put players wherever they want (eg Bont in the forward line). Your comments directly about High I also disagree with but again we will have to agree to disagree. The only point I do agree with is Hugh’s goal kicking.

 

[Towno78]

At the Morningside Panthers?

Yes

 

[scoman]

He also spent a lot more time in the middle during the unbeaten period when Lachie was out with his ankle.
And thrived during that period.

Yeah I keep coming back to this as well. I often worry we lose his outside skills by playing him more permanently in the middle. But then I remember those weeks you mention and he was dominant. Might have even jumped to the lead in the coaches votes from memory. Shame the umps didn't agree on Brownlow night though.

 

[scoman]

Yes

Does it look like an official session or just a heap of the lads doing their running? Most the side would walk to that ground in under 10 minutes.

 

[Towno78]

Does it look like an official session or just a heap of the lads doing their running? Most the side would walk to that ground in under 10 minutes.

Training. Looks a pretty full squad.

 

[mattsmob]

Yeah I keep coming back to this as well. I often worry we lose his outside skills by playing him more permanently in the middle. But then I remember those weeks you mention and he was dominant. Might have even jumped to the lead in the coaches votes from memory. Shame the umps didn't agree on Brownlow night though.

With Hugh's running ability I think we can have the best of both worlds. Let him start at the contest and work with Neale and Lyons bringing the ball out of stoppage then let him run as he normally would on the wing in transition. There was a game against Richmond earlier in the season where it just felt as though he was everywhere and was best on by an absolute mile, can't remember whether he was playing wing or mid that game but he just kept popping up all over the ground.

 

[lionraven]

I think Mitchell is unfairly maligned. 30 possessions in an afl game is going to do damage. At the very least you are denying the opposition the ball. You can only score rushed behinds if you dont possess the ball. Possessing the ball for long chains tires the shit out of the opposition defence. Very few p players can regularly get 30 possessions. I get there is a difference between a Gaff style handball recieve or a Witherden kickin stat pad compared to a Wines or Oliver inside contested possession. However people like Mccrae and Mitchell hovering around the arcs lets yheir yeam hold possession and set up their defence at the bare minimum. Compare that to us. We get the ball out to half back and then we can get stuck. We end up bombing it long and hoping for a contested mark or stoppage. Would love a Mitchell in that situation to keep hard running, getting the odd one two and moving the ball to half way before we pump it for a deeper F50 entry. I hope Harry Sharp can be that player. Someone who can run all day and collect 'easy possessions' between the arcs so we can starve the opposition completely and let Harris and co really setup a wall behind the ball.

 

[The Zork]

Macrae is elite at getting in the eye line of the coal face types like Liberatore, maybe as good as anyone in the league. He certainly benefits from being in a midfield with slick hand use.
Works hard to get a lot of uncontested marks too.

 

[Section 5]

Appreciate the work you've put in but I think when we're talking the damage and class of Hugh in the middle compared to other guys the stats don't tell the full story.
Absolutely agree we don't have another winger as good as Hugh but guys like Prior, Ah Chee and Sharp all look like they have the ability to play on the wing to a decent level.
I'm of the opinion that if McCluggage played full-time mid and averaged 26-28 touches he'd be very comfortably in the conversation for our best player which would make the move worth it even if we lose a little on the wing.

Looks like we agree to disagree
We will lose big time on the wing but gain very little if anything as a team if Hugh moves into the mid full time
Lets see where he ends up playing as that is where the coaches think is best for the overall team structure
My bet is it will be wing with about 5-10% full time midfield

I am intrigued as to who you have playing wing if Hugh moves to fulltime midfield
Your post 305 on best 22. Basically is :- start Robbo as he is safe then hopefully transition to one of the younger boys
So your wings and center (at this stage as we all change our best 22) are:- Robbo ? + Center ? + Wing ?

Also who are your bench 4 (not sub) at this stage and their position ?
.................
As a comparison i posted a best 22 on Oct 17 and can guarantee it will change once intraclub games start
Below is my center line and interchange.
The team also has Rayner, Lyons, Neale & McCarthy. At present no J Berry, Cockatoo, D Robertson & Sharp. All these could make best 22
If we get through preseason with no injuries we are in a great position selection wise

C.: McCluggage, Bailey, Robbo
Int: Zorko (mid/fwd), Prior (wing/def) Ah Chee (def/fwd/wing) Fort (ruck/fwd)

 

[Dalions]

 

[Grasshopper17]

I think Mitchell is unfairly maligned. 30 possessions in an afl game is going to do damage. At the very least you are denying the opposition the ball. You can only score rushed behinds if you dont possess the ball. Possessing the ball for long chains tires the sh*t out of the opposition defence. Very few p players can regularly get 30 possessions. I get there is a difference between a Gaff style handball recieve or a Witherden kickin stat pad compared to a Wines or Oliver inside contested possession. However people like Mccrae and Mitchell hovering around the arcs lets yheir yeam hold possession and set up their defence at the bare minimum. Compare that to us. We get the ball out to half back and then we can get stuck. We end up bombing it long and hoping for a contested mark or stoppage. Would love a Mitchell in that situation to keep hard running, getting the odd one two and moving the ball to half way before we pump it for a deeper F50 entry. I hope Harry Sharp can be that player. Someone who can run all day and collect 'easy possessions' between the arcs so we can starve the opposition completely and let Harris and co really setup a wall behind the ball.

This is very interesting. Had never thought of a guy like Tom Mitchell in that light. I do think the whole "Possessing the ball for long chains" is not quite as relevant in AFL as it is in NFL though. In NFL it is very noticeable when comparing points scored in 1st halves vs 2nd halves - defences really seem to get worn down over the course of a game over there.

Certainly would love to see faster and deeper inside 50 entries however, but from M Malice's training report yesterday, early signs are that we can expect more of the same in 2022... clear all the big blokes out and hope the little blokes can get on the end of it. I think it's a mistake, but hey what do I know?

 

[acuguy]

Fair play to acuguy for spotting him all those years ago. First accurate call in 21 years. Well done Nino!

Thanks Rip. Wasn't hard to spot his talent. I try my best to enlighten others. Many thanks

 

[Lace Out]

Thanks Rip. Wasn't hard to spot his talent. I try my best to enlighten others. Many thanks

Who else is coming through the ranks acu ?

 

[Lace Out]

Not beyond the realms he hasn’t peaked..main thing is I guess he continues non injury phase

 

[LIONS08]

Yep, definitely no Mustang there, maybe he just brings it out for show.

Charlie was rocking a black bmw for a while there. It got pinched last year or the year before and im not sure if he got it back. Recently he also had a 4wd, a lot of the boys get away camping together.