VFL 2022 Sandringham Zebras

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SaintsSeptember said:
You really think the ruck has been the problem with our team?
Wow.
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Richmond had or have a policy of playing in form players in the 2s. If you are playing well they find you a spot. We seem to have played 2 rucks to hold structure. Then switched to one. I don't think there seems to be a post Paddy plan unless like the last few weeks it's to get Marshall playing as a solo ruck again.
 
Ads734 said:
Sandy still lacking any quality vfl listed players. It’s a big problem. In past years the quality has left.
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We look awful when the AFL guys aren't in the side. It's the most no name VFL we have had for along time. They have been okay considering.
 
BrutThough said:
I think the problem is you are overrating the list.
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Have a look at other sides in the 8. They are mostly up to date game styles over personnel. Richmond were never the best list, just the best drilled and the most competitive. The side we have has plenty of talent which is why so many have great personal stats but we can't win games of footy against sides with systems.

We do things stubbornly different than other sides. We were the last to adapt to exploiting the stand rule. We refuse to do anything to change the dysfunctional forward entries and forward set up etc.

You imagine it must have been Aaron Hamill working with the forwards before because since he left the systems have collapsed.
 
gringo2011 said:
Have a look at other sides in the 8. They are mostly up to date game styles over personnel. Richmond were never the best list, just the best drilled and the most competitive. The side we have has plenty of talent which is why so many have great personal stats but we can't win games of footy against sides with systems.

We do things stubbornly different than other sides. We were the last to adapt to exploiting the stand rule. We refuse to do anything to change the dysfunctional forward entries and forward set up etc.

You imagine it must have been Aaron Hamill working with the forwards before because since he left the systems have collapsed.
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We have some good players at the top of our list but I don't think we have good depth at all. After a few injuries, it falls away pretty quickly. I think we've seen that in the back half of the season against the better sides.

I don't think we do things differently to most other sides. Majority of teams try to play the same way and we don't seem any different in that regard. Most sides out there have a dysfunctional forward line. Most do the exact same thing with the stand rule. Most focus on applying pressure and effort. Most bomb it into their forward line for the majority of their forward entires. Most of the things we complain about are standard complaints for every supporter group across the AFL.

We don't need to imagine whether Hamill worked with the forwards because we know he didn't. He coached the backline. All we heard last year was how bad he was as a coach and that he was a laughing stock. But now suddenly he must have been a forward whisper?
 
BrutThough said:
We have some good players at the top of our list but I don't think we have good depth at all. After a few injuries, it falls away pretty quickly. I think we've seen that in the back half of the season against the better sides.

I don't think we do things differently to most other sides. Majority of teams try to play the same way and we don't seem any different in that regard. Most sides out there have a dysfunctional forward line. Most do the exact same thing with the stand rule. Most focus on applying pressure and effort. Most bomb it into their forward line for the majority of their forward entires. Most of the things we complain about are standard complaints for every supporter group across the AFL.

We don't need to imagine whether Hamill worked with the forwards because we know he didn't. He coached the backline. All we heard last year was how bad he was as a coach and that he was a laughing stock. But now suddenly he must have been a forward whisper?
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Well I stand corrected on Hammill but the proof is in the results. We look terrible in our forward structure. It still suggests that we have the wrong coaching set up. Rath has to be part of the problem. He's a our strategy guy isn't he? I think our game style, game plan and structures look amateurish.
 
gringo2011 said:
We look awful when the AFL guys aren't in the side. It's the most no name VFL we have had for along time. They have been okay considering.
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Look I am not questining the effort, but long are the days of having guys like Seccul, Answerth, Cook, Cockie etc etc. I think its actually a really poor reflection on the saints as a whole.
 
gringo2011 said:
Well I stand corrected on Hammill but the proof is in the results. We look terrible in our forward structure. It still suggests that we have the wrong coaching set up. Rath has to be part of the problem. He's a our strategy guy isn't he? I think our game style, game plan and structures look amateurish.
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Yeah, the system of entry from the mid field to half forward area is a mess- once they go forward of the centre, the guys always seem to be in two minds as to whether to kick to half forward or bomb long. Against the Cats, King played from behind too much and got beaten, and Membrey was running all over the place filling gaps, so no obvious targets which doesn't help. Sharman might be learning down back, but I do think he is the kind of player we need floating around high forward as a taller marking option leave him there and let him develop. We have a double whammy of broken forward structure and no target forwards.
 
Saintbloke said:
Yeah, the system of entry from the mid field to half forward area is a mess- once they go forward of the centre, the guys always seem to be in two minds as to whether to kick to half forward or bomb long. Against the Cats, King played from behind too much and got beaten, and Membrey was running all over the place filling gaps, so no obvious targets which doesn't help. Sharman might be learning down back, but I do think he is the kind of player we need floating around high forward as a taller marking option leave him there and let him develop. We have a double whammy of broken forward structure and no target forwards.
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That forward set up should be an absolute weapon. In the Carlton game we really changed it up and things magically got better.....for a week. It's got to be their game plan.
 

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pebblesofsand said:
No - I thought it was clear - my complaint is about coaching.

We have a squad that should be capable of top 4, but aside from the defence, they are completely devoid of confidence and play like an under 10's team.

Thats a coaching issue.
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No way are we near a top 4 team with our list
 
CaptainRisky said:
No way are we near a top 4 team with our list
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Neither were Richmond, Melbourne and Collingwood. You need to start getting the best out of the side or get people in who can. Last year Ratts had excuses. We could hardly field a side at times. This year he hasn't got the excuses. We have stopped being blown out of the water by 100 points and a lot of the individual players have stepped up.

Ratts has got to start next year with a bang, get it right or you'd have to look at moving him on. That said I've got this bad feeling we are looking at Lenny Hayes as a hand over so will just keep the set up as is.
 
gringo2011 said:
Neither were Richmond, Melbourne and Collingwood. You need to start getting the best out of the side or get people in who can. Last year Ratts had excuses. We could hardly field a side at times. This year he hasn't got the excuses. We have stopped being blown out of the water by 100 points and a lot of the individual players have stepped up.

Ratts has got to start next year with a bang, get it right or you'd have to look at moving him on. That said I've got this bad feeling we are looking at Lenny Hayes as a hand over so will just keep the set up as is.
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If you're putting our list in the same group as above i would have one word for you, delusional
 
Forgive me but I find these comments that we don't have a list capable of top 4 absolutely hilarious.

8/3 at the bye having already lost one or two games we should have won, then a string of substandard performances against teams where we should have won at one or two more, would have gave us 13 or 14 wins which would have put us where exactly?

Top 4 !!!!

QED.
 
CaptainRisky said:
If you're putting our list in the same group as above i would have one word for you, delusional
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I don't think we are much different than Richmond. The are as mid-table as us despite the hype around them.

Give us their fixture where the only top 8 side they had to play twice is Carlton, and we would be in the 8 too.
 
pebblesofsand said:
Forgive me but I find these comments that we don't have a list capable of top 4 absolutely hilarious.

8/3 at the bye having already lost one or two games we should have won, then a string of substandard performances against teams where we should have won at one or two more, would have gave us 13 or 14 wins which would have put us where exactly?

Top 4 !!!!

QED.
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If my aunty won a few more games then she'd be my uncle.

I think the point is that losing games we should win seems to be a trait of this playing group, which implies that the players have the skills but not the mental approach to finish top 4. Unless that can be fixed, we don't have a list capable of top 4.
 
BrutThough said:
I don't think we are much different than Richmond. The are as mid-table as us despite the hype around them.

Give us their fixture where the only top 8 side they had to play twice is Carlton, and we would be in the 8 too.
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Gringo said Neither were Richmond, Melbourne and Collingwood which to me implies he is talking about the past in premiership years , of course Richmond are not a top 4 team or list ATM but i will bet that they will be back in the top 4 before we are .
No idea why you brought up the top 8 as the post Gringo made was saying we have a top 4 list , Which we don't
 
pebblesofsand said:
Forgive me but I find these comments that we don't have a list capable of top 4 absolutely hilarious.

8/3 at the bye having already lost one or two games we should have won, then a string of substandard performances against teams where we should have won at one or two more, would have gave us 13 or 14 wins which would have put us where exactly?

Top 4 !!!!

QED.
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Coulda Woulda Shoulda , We always seem to find a reason to sh1t the bed and then blame everyone else , the draw , Ups , Cairns , Travel ect ect ect
 
CaptainRisky said:
If you're putting our list in the same group as above i would have one word for you, delusional
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Which is what people were saying about both the year before they came good. Dees had had a dozen guns but then a really ordinary list and none of their forwards could convert. They did a few patch up jobs and bought in some youth and were away. The Tigers were middlers for years, they grabbed some good but not exceptional types in Caddy and Prestia and all of a sudden made a quantum leap from about exactly were we are.

The bulk of players have stepped up. It happened at Brisbane when they stepped up too. The players start to improve and then hopefully get some playing cohesion. Good coaching could straighten us right up and a couple of good pieces and we are away.

Not saying I think we have a premiership list. I don't think we even tried to build that. We are all beach muscles made to look good enough. Nothing about what we do as a club aims high. We are serial snake oil salesmen but the list is good enough to be in that 3rd to 8th range with some tweaks and some coaching. They remind me of the Scott North list. Just off the peloton type side.
 
BrutThough said:
I don't think we are much different than Richmond. The are as mid-table as us despite the hype around them.

Give us their fixture where the only top 8 side they had to play twice is Carlton, and we would be in the 8 too.
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Richmond have a terrible patchy list and much worse than ours. They are the 2012 Saints. Still able to knock over sides but a bit of a wobble starting to creep in.
 
bergholt said:
If my aunty won a few more games then she'd be my uncle.

I think the point is that losing games we should win seems to be a trait of this playing group, which implies that the players have the skills but not the mental approach to finish top 4. Unless that can be fixed, we don't have a list capable of top 4.
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CaptainRisky said:
Coulda Woulda Shoulda , We always seem to find a reason to sh1t the bed and then blame everyone else , the draw , Ups , Cairns , Travel ect ect ect
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So you both agree that we have a list CAPABLE of Top 4 and we all agree that we're just not executing it properly.

So now we've established the list is capable enough can we focus on the problem - coaching.

Given we've just signed Ratten again, which assistants shoyld we get rid of and who realistically can we get in.
 
pebblesofsand said:
So you both agree that we have a list CAPABLE of Top 4 and we all agree that we're just not executing it properly.

So now we've established the list is capable enough can we focus on the problem - coaching.

Given we've just signed Ratten again, which assistants shoyld we get rid of and who realistically can we get in.
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Nah i still don't think we are anywhere near a top 4 team - List , Was more just pointing out we are mentally weak and not talented enough
 

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