Briztool
Even worse he'll be flagging my post with our own mods this very second
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
2023/2024 Gold Coast Draft & Trade periods
- Thread starter Big Red Machine
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Even worse he'll be flagging my post with our own mods this very second
- Mar 14, 2014
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Wish he would **** off back to his own board and pretend to be a draft expert there instead.
- Dec 7, 2019
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Yes I said that, take it as a compliment, because I know the Suns are coming.I possibly used wrong word as English is not my first languageI am sorry if that's the case. But I am pretty sure that beside Collingwood you said, "Please be it Suns too". I thought it was funny.
I did not go into reasons of Lions jumping up the ladder but beside great additions, I would add no injuries as another reason for sure.
I was just a bit surprised by your "ummm" comment regarding Suns 2024 prediction comment. You better not take away our hope
As far as Dew, let's see how we go next 1-2 years. FWIW, I probably value Dew coaching skills more than Fagan's who is obviously a great people person, but I have how some doubts about his coaching abilities.
Yes, no injuries was very good as well.
I believe if you canvassed most other supporter bases, very few fans would consider the Suns a top 4 possibility in 2024.
Thinking about 2024, Carlton is possibly the only team I might say, might be a top 4 team, and that relies on them being healthy.
If you’ve read much of our board at all, you’d know that a lot of us are critical of Fagan’s game day coaching, and often our style of play.
I don’t hate the Suns. I don’t hate any team. I dislike some supporter bases, or certain aspects or peculiarities of a supporter base, but the Suns aren’t one those either.
If you every read the Lions board, you’d know I defend the Suns as much as criticise them.
My (and many people’s) biggest criticism of the Suns has been your recent list management missteps.
That doesn’t mean someone hates the Suns, it’s just opposition supporters discussing other teams.
Probably little different to fans discussing an individual player. West Coast board discussing Sydney Stack and his latest run in with the law. Doesn’t mean they hate him.
- Oct 19, 2017
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Look saying the Suns list management has been bad historically is like saying the lions can’t win away from the Gabba and during the finals… both are factual.
Just for clarification, I wasn’t talking historically.
Generally I only refer to current administrations or coaches, when discussing a team. Because once a list manager changes, or head of football, they shouldn’t be held accountable for the previous peoples actions.
- Oct 19, 2017
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Well it’s too early to make that call… Yeah the Bowes thing was a balls up. But if you look big picture at how everything has played out I wouldn’t be too critical… Look at how things have gone since the year prior to assistance package announcement so the last 5 drafts:
2018: Lukosius, Rankine, King
2019: Rowell, Anderson, Flanders, Sharp, Farrar, Budarick, Rosas
2020: Hollands, Davies, Jeffrey
2021: Andrew
2022: Humphrey
Drafting whilst besides Rankine the issue of players leaving appears resolved. Big tick.
Could we have drafted better absolutely every team could have.
During this time we have started to attract players at more reasonable contract values whilst not as big names as the Lions the likes of Ben Long and Brandon Ellis have been wins for us.
It was never going to be a quick fix as 2017 our list was a disaster and VFL quality at best. I don’t think the Lions administration would be doing any better of a job with the rabble that Cameron, Dew, Evans and Co inherited from their predecessors
2018: Lukosius, Rankine, King
2019: Rowell, Anderson, Flanders, Sharp, Farrar, Budarick, Rosas
2020: Hollands, Davies, Jeffrey
2021: Andrew
2022: Humphrey
Drafting whilst besides Rankine the issue of players leaving appears resolved. Big tick.
Could we have drafted better absolutely every team could have.
During this time we have started to attract players at more reasonable contract values whilst not as big names as the Lions the likes of Ben Long and Brandon Ellis have been wins for us.
It was never going to be a quick fix as 2017 our list was a disaster and VFL quality at best. I don’t think the Lions administration would be doing any better of a job with the rabble that Cameron, Dew, Evans and Co inherited from their predecessors
I don’t believe I’ve ever been critical of your drafting.
If we hadn’t of traded for Neale, I hope we (the Lions) would have had the balls to draft King (word is we wouldn’t have).
If we hadn’t of traded in Neale, and had stuck to building through the draft, I always said that 2023 would have been the first year of us possibly making the top 8.
If we apply that same timeline to the Suns, that’s 2025 for you guys.
One thing that I always raise my eyebrows at, is when the AFL talk about they need to make it easier and faster for teams to make the top 8, and be competitive in finals.
It’s like they don’t understand list management in a competition sense.
If you put more levers in place, to enable teams to acquire talent faster, those same levers are available to everyone, and if you’re a good team with good list management, and are perceived as a destination club, then there’s less chance of that team dropping out of finals contention, and therefore less actual top 8 spots available for all other clubs.
If Geelong and Richmond can sort out their next lot of KPF’s going forward, there’s very little likelihood of them dropping out of the top 8 for the next 5 years, even when their current champion mids retire.
Look at last season’s top 8, who likely drops out?
Fremantle maybe, but they’re a young team still improving internally.
Bulldogs? Arguably last years big underachievers.
Collingwood? Last year’s over achiever’s, but to the fall that much back to the pack.
You also need luck. Like if I go back to Lions, Neale choosing Lions by himself. If Suns had no injuries last year like Lions had in 2019, there would very a good chance Suns making finals in 2022. But there are no ifs.
Progress is rarely linear. Some teams will probably jump up, some drop out. Most predictions by fans are just personal views and mean nothing.
It's so close competition. FWIW, for me there are top 3-4 teams - Lions, Cats, Melbourne and probably Tigers. 3 bottom teams - Hawks, North, Eagles and even Eagles could fight for finals with a dream run. From the rest any team can make finals with some luck and good run with injuries. Personally, I doubt GWS, Crows are a real chance but get on a roll like Collingwood did and anything can happen.
I’m pencilling in St Kilda for a bottom 6 finish.
I believe a team has a better chance of making finals if they can make their home ground a fortress and benefit from some home town umpiring.
TheGoldPersons
Ryan Davis #1 Fan
Bullet dodged with Sydney Stack
Don't think any of Walters, Rodgers or Read will be drafted within the draft ranges proposed here.
Thinking we will have close to enough points for all these players even if we had to put our 1st Rd pick into trading for a player.
Yeah, although I expect Saints to play harder under Lyon there will be some sorting happening there and list is not impressive, IMO.
Agree on umpiring. Unfortunately, Suns can only dream about hometown umpiring. Hopefully with more wins, crowds improve, and majority will be Suns fans. At the moment, especially Carlton, Essendon, Richmond have home crowds at Metricon.
And when Suns go to Melbourne they are automatically 2-3 goals down due to s**t umpiring.
- Dec 7, 2019
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Margins are fine now. Look how many close games Collingwood won last year. 10 or 11 under two goals or something like that?
I reckon Melbourne are vulnerable, a couple of key injuries with hurt them more than most of the top sides.
The Suns improved a lot in 2022, keep that going and get a little luck and who knows.
Yeah, 11 wins by 2 goals or less, I believe (including 9 wins by goal or less). Unbelievable. They also had a great injury run. Basically, just Grundy (on the way out), Kreuger (still just potential) and yes in finals Adams.
- Dec 7, 2019
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Hard to see that kind of luck holding.
The Kings Ransom
Premiership Player
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J
Simply, he’s a 25 year old who has never been consolidated in best 22 at a middle of the road team.
Obviously at a finer level he has some potential (and recently displayed this in the AFL) to be a good contributer in a position of need.
But whether he can do that in the short or medium term is still very much up in the air.
When given a 4 year deal, there is a bit of pressure on multiple parties to make sure this works
Edit: didn’t quite finish what I was intending to say the first time..
ow can you say that Ben Long is a win?
Simply, he’s a 25 year old who has never been consolidated in best 22 at a middle of the road team.
Obviously at a finer level he has some potential (and recently displayed this in the AFL) to be a good contributer in a position of need.
But whether he can do that in the short or medium term is still very much up in the air.
When given a 4 year deal, there is a bit of pressure on multiple parties to make sure this works
Edit: didn’t quite finish what I was intending to say the first time..
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Probably not but I was trying to account for what I saw as a worst case scenario from a point perspective and it would appear we still have enough point to deal with the situation.
We actually had access to Beams at the end of 2008 and offered him a three year deal just like Rory Thompson. Beams turned us down and Rory accepted the offer. If our recruiting team were more forward thinking then we would have drafted another GC junior Claye Beams at the end of 2010 in the hopes of dramatically increasing our chances of landing Dayne later down the track (which would have eventuated as we now know). I know that was a big reason we recruited guys like Joel Tippett and Nathan Ablett but for some reason our recruiters didn't consider Claye Beams, despite having unrestricted access to him at the time. I don't think we would have been any worse off having a local guy like Claye Beams on our list in our inaugural years when compared to some of the other players we chose to give a list spot to like Jesse Haberfield, Jack Stanlake, Rex Liddy or Joey Daye. Another guy we had access to that I felt was a missed opportunity was Josh Thomas, who actually played with us in our TAC Cup year but once again (just like the Beams situation) we allowed Collingwood to swoop in and take a guy from us who had a pretty good AFL career at the Pies and certainly could have helped us in our inaugural AFL years.
Losing Will Ashcroft was most likely our fault as well because we decided to sack his old man and the Ashcroft family moved to Victoria a year later which removed any academy access we had to Will. If we had just given Marcus another role for a few years until Will became draft eligible then I'd say there was extremely high chance he would have nominated us instead of Brisbane. Think Nick Blakey nominating Sydney because his father was working there at the time, despite being father-son eligible for two other clubs. People can say it's easy to suggest that in retrospect and we don't know what kind of player Will Ashcroft would have become but this kid was always destined for the AFL IMO because he was already an AA as an bottom ager at the U15s level in his last year with us so it's not like he suddenly became top class when he moved to Victoria. He was already one of the best in his age group when he played for us. Adding insult to injury, it appears Will's younger brother, Levi, is also a standout in his age group and would have been a part of our academy pathway had we not sacked Marcus. The two brothers have made it clear they want to play together and that could have been for the Suns if we had put more forethought into Marcus' role at the club.
No real point in commenting on Zorko because we all know he was on our list and we chose to trade him away. I know people will say we didn't want someone like that on our list anyway but purely from a list management perspective it was clearly the wrong decision to trade him and Zorko continues to prove that year after year by adding more games and accolades to his name.
We never had access to Nick Riewoldt so I wouldn't ever criticise our recruiting team for not landing him. Same goes for other Gold Coast juniors who were in the AFL but came along before we existed like Kurt Tippett, Daniel Merrett, Dale Hale, Sam Gilbert etc. We simply can't keep losing our best academy talent to other clubs and I hope the club understands this as we enter what seems to be a golden period in our academy's existence to date.
You're acting like jumping into the top four a year or two after not qualifying for the finals is unheard of...Ummmm.
2020 Sydney - 16th
2021 Sydney - 6th
2022 Sydney - 3rd
2021 Collingwood - 17th
2022 Collingwood - 4th
2019 Port Adelaide - 10th
2020 Port Adelaide - 1st
2018 Brisbane - 15th
2019 Brisbane - 2nd
2016 Richmond - 13th
2017 Richmond - 3rd
2015 GWS - 11th
2016 GWS - 4th
That's just a few example over the last decade and as a Brisbane fan I would have thought you'd be well aware of how quickly team can jump into the top four but evidently that isn't the case. Many teams have made the jump from outside the top 8 to inside the top 4 in just one season and I was suggesting after finishing 12th last year, we may finish in the 5-8th range this year before entering the top 4 next year. This is a plausible suggestion IMO.
This seems like a contradiction to me. You claim you're a proud Queenslander, which I assume would mean you want the best for Queensland footy, but then in the same breath you say you want us to get belted. Then you try to justify it further by saying we're "coming" which is why you want the belting to occur...
I understand you want Brisbane to beat Gold Coast and we would also like to beat Brisbane in the QClash each year but why would you want it to be a belting if you truly cared about the best interest of Queensland footy? Surely the best outcome for a "parochial Queenslander" would be a close Brisbane win in every QClash, right? Trying to hide behind the 'they are coming, let's belt them while we can' notion just shows your hand even more IMO because it means you actively want to stop any kind of momentum we're currently building and that seems counteractive to the goal we're trying to achieve with football in Queensland.
Do you actually remember what it was like back when Brisbane was getting belted on a regular basis or have you become so accustomed to finals footy that you've wiped those dark days from your memory? If you do remember then I would be absolutely shocked if you thought it was in the best interests of Queensland footy for one of our teams to get belted. The best outcome for Queensland footy is to have two strong teams in the national competition and tightly contested QClashes serves as a way of increasing local interest in the rivalry we're trying to build with each other, which is once again in the best interests of Queensland footy IMO. As a fan of either Queensland team, you want to be able to go to the footy and genuinely believe your team can win the QClash in any given year at either venue. We see that in the South Australian Showdowns each year and they arguably have the best local rivalry in the league. This domination from Brisbane over the last few years has done nothing to help the QClash rivalry and that's reflected in the crowd numbers/tv viewership.
For the record I don't want Brisbane to get belted in any game, even against us. We've seen how much our sport has grown in Queensland over the last five years with a strong Brisbane side and I'd like that to continue. In fact, I'd like us to compliment that growth by also playing finals alongside the Lions. Maybe that's just me but that's what I think is best for our sport in this state.
We're fighting for the same cup but you don't win premierships based on percentage. A 1 point victory vs a 100 point victory in the Grand Final is still the same end result. The only thing that comes with a 100 point loss is humiliation and sorrow. I don't see the logic...
IMO the best outcome for Queensland football is to have both teams competing in the finals each year and for each QClash to be a close encounter.
Probably not but I was trying to account for what I saw as a worst case scenario from a points perspective and it would appear we still have enough points to deal with the situation.
We actually had access to Beams at the end of 2008 and offered him a three year deal just like Rory Thompson. Beams turned us down and Rory accepted the offer. If our recruiting team were more forward thinking then we would have drafted another GC junior Claye Beams at the end of 2010 in the hopes of dramatically increasing our chances of landing Dayne later down the track (which would have eventuated as we now know). I know that was a big reason we recruited guys like Joel Tippett and Nathan Ablett but for some reason our recruiters didn't consider Claye Beams, despite having unrestricted access to him at the time. I don't think we would have been any worse off having a local guy like Claye Beams on our list in our inaugural years when compared to some of the other players we chose to give a list spot to like Jesse Haberfield, Jack Stanlake, Rex Liddy or Joey Daye. Another guy we had access to that I felt was a missed opportunity was Josh Thomas, who actually played with us in our TAC Cup year but once again (just like the Beams situation) we allowed Collingwood to swoop in and take a guy from us who had a pretty good AFL career at the Pies and certainly could have helped us in our inaugural AFL years.
Losing Will Ashcroft was most likely our fault as well because we decided to sack his old man and the Ashcroft family moved to Victoria a year later which removed any academy access we had to Will. If we had just given Marcus another role for a few years until Will became draft eligible then I'd say there was extremely high chance he would have nominated us instead of Brisbane. Think Nick Blakey nominating Sydney because his father was working there at the time, despite being father-son eligible for two other clubs. People can say it's easy to suggest that in retrospect and we don't know what kind of player Will Ashcroft would have become but this kid was always destined for the AFL IMO because he was already an AA as an bottom ager at the U15s level in his last year with us so it's not like he suddenly became top class when he moved to Victoria. He was already one of the best in his age group when he played for us. Adding insult to injury, it appears Will's younger brother, Levi, is also a standout in his age group and would have been a part of our academy pathway had we not sacked Marcus. The two brothers have made it clear they want to play together and that could have been for the Suns if we had put more forethought into Marcus' role at the club.
No real point in commenting on Zorko because we all know he was on our list and we chose to trade him away. I know people will say we didn't want someone like that on our list anyway but purely from a list management perspective it was clearly the wrong decision to trade him and Zorko continues to prove that year after year by adding more games and accolades to his name.
We never had access to Nick Riewoldt so I wouldn't ever criticise our recruiting team for not landing him. Same goes for other Gold Coast juniors who were in the AFL but came along before we existed like Kurt Tippett, Daniel Merrett, Dale Hale, Sam Gilbert etc. We simply can't keep losing our best academy talent to other clubs and I hope the club understands this as we enter what seems to be a golden period in our academy's existence to date.
You're acting like jumping into the top four a year or two after not qualifying for the finals is unheard of...Ummmm.
2020 Sydney - 16th
2021 Sydney - 6th
2022 Sydney - 3rd
2021 Collingwood - 17th
2022 Collingwood - 4th
2019 Port Adelaide - 10th
2020 Port Adelaide - 1st
2018 Brisbane - 15th
2019 Brisbane - 2nd
2016 Richmond - 13th
2017 Richmond - 3rd
2015 GWS - 11th
2016 GWS - 4th
That's just a few example over the last decade and as a Brisbane fan I would have thought you'd be well aware of how quickly team can jump into the top four but evidently that isn't the case. Many teams have made the jump from outside the top 8 to inside the top 4 in just one season and I was suggesting after finishing 12th last year, we may finish in the 5-8th range this year before entering the top 4 next year. This is a plausible suggestion IMO.
This seems like a contradiction to me. You claim you're a proud Queenslander, which I assume would mean you want the best for Queensland footy, but then in the same breath you say you want us to get belted. Then you try to justify it further by saying we're "coming" which is why you want the belting to occur...
I understand you want Brisbane to beat Gold Coast and we would also like to beat Brisbane in the QClash each year but why would you want it to be a belting if you truly cared about the best interest of Queensland footy? Surely the best outcome for a "parochial Queenslander" would be a close Brisbane win in every QClash, right? Trying to hide behind the 'they are coming, let's belt them while we can' notion just shows your hand even more IMO because it means you actively want to stop any kind of momentum we're currently building and that seems counteractive to the goal we're trying to achieve with football in Queensland.
Do you actually remember what it was like back when Brisbane was getting belted on a regular basis or have you become so accustomed to finals footy that you've wiped those dark days from your memory? If you do remember then I would be absolutely shocked if you thought it was in the best interests of Queensland footy for one of our teams to get belted. The best outcome for Queensland footy is to have two strong teams in the national competition and tightly contested QClashes serves as a way of increasing local interest in the rivalry we're trying to build with each other, which is once again in the best interests of Queensland footy IMO. As a fan of either Queensland team, you want to be able to go to the footy and genuinely believe your team can win the QClash in any given year at either venue. We see that in the South Australian Showdowns each year and they arguably have the best local rivalry in the league. This domination from Brisbane over the last few years has done nothing to help the QClash rivalry and that's reflected in the crowd numbers/tv viewership.
For the record I don't want Brisbane to get belted in any game, even against us. We've seen how much our sport has grown in Queensland over the last five years with a strong Brisbane side and I'd like that to continue. In fact, I'd like us to compliment that growth by also playing finals alongside the Lions. Maybe that's just me but that's what I think is best for our sport in this state.
We're fighting for the same cup but you don't win premierships based on percentage. A 1 point victory vs a 100 point victory in the Grand Final is still the same end result. The only thing that comes with a 100 point loss is humiliation and sorrow. I don't see the logic...
IMO the best outcome for Queensland football is to have both teams competing in the finals each year and for each QClash to be a close encounter.
I'm not so sure about that. This isn't the first time you've posted on our board and shared your opinion that you don't think we're good enough.
I actually find Briztoon's posts quite interesting - and not always negative. I enjoy reading opposition comment. I'd like to think the Suns will be Top 4 in 2024 but doubt it - hopefully I'm wrong. I'd like us to make top 8 in 2023 before jumping too far ahead.
Draft retention will be under some level of stability once Anderson and Hollands commit. Still nervous until that happens.
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