Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night

[Mr Meow]

I would think Tim English gets the ruck position? Hasn’t missed a game and has carried the Dogs ruck all season.

Disposals: 2nd (0.61 behind Marshall)
Marks. 1st
Goals: 8th
I50’s: 2nd
Hit outs : 6th (I don’t know about hit outs to adv)
SI’s: 3rd
Intercepts : 3rd

Marshall next in line and in the mix. Gawn missed games and shared too much with Grundy. Jackson also shared with Darcy and some average patches.



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Yeah English would be my pick. I actually think he's been a bit unlucky on the coaches votes. He's very consistently had strong games with just 2-3 shockers that some people have focused on.

Jackson has a chance as a utility off the bench but if it comes down to the crunch I'd see someone like Merrett or Serong as more deserving (spots for mids will be tight), or even Langford or C.Cameron.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Eye test tend to trust what I see and Gawn has been better more influential in a side that’s top4. It’s not by a lot but he’s ahead

Gawn has missed 4 x games (3 plus injured in first minutes of another) then when Grundy was playing was fairly mediocre. He only exploded to true AA form when sole ruck in Round 18.

He’s behind English, Marshall and even Jackson. People are getting seduced by his last 5 x weeks… Gawn was nothing special for games played up until R17 thanks to Grundy.


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[s_wd6]

Ok well I’m pretty sure we would be putting Jackson top of the bill yo smooth over trade value optics at least…

I wonder if the AFL select your AA team is anything to go by. If so its only Ryan and Serong from freo

 

[HarryBeef]

Don't teams have to nominate their players? I doubt people at freo are even considering Jacko

I very much doubt that, do you have a source?

I think you're thinking of the Leigh Matthews Trophy.

 

[s_wd6]

I very much doubt that, do you have a source?

I think you're thinking of the Leigh Matthews Trophy.

Nah the players for Leigh Matthews is nominated by their teammates.

I'm like 90% sure I saw somehwere that teams nominate their players. I'll try to dig to find it.

EDIT: Here you go

 

[HarryBeef]

Nah the players for Leigh Matthews is nominated by their teammates.

I'm like 90% sure I saw somehwere that teams nominate their players. I'll try to dig to find it.

EDIT: Here you go

Wow weird

 

[s_wd6]

And depending on when the nominations had to go through, I highly doubt Jackson was even in consideration from his own team.

 

[Danger in Texas]

B: Sicily - Moore - Stewart
HB: Sinclair - Weitering - Naicos
C: Jaicos - Bontempelli - Gulden
HF: Petracca - Curnow - Rozee
F: Greene - Walker - C Cameron
R: English - Butters - Dawson
I/C: Merrett - Liberatore - Serong - Neale

Gawn and Langford the two incredibly unlucky ones IMO

 

[Mr Meow]

Gawn has missed 4 x games (3 plus injured in first minutes of another) then when Grundy was playing was fairly mediocre. He only exploded to true AA form when sole ruck in Round 18.

He’s behind English, Marshall and even Jackson. People are getting seduced by his last 5 x weeks… Gawn was nothing special for games played up until R17 thanks to Grundy.


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Even the Demons supporters in here admitted that he needed 3 more dominant games to push his case.

Around the ground TDK had more of an impact so he fell at the first obstacle.

 

[Surkin]

Can’t believe there’s about 50 posts in here debating whether Jackson is All-Australian. He’ll be a star and finish his career with a handful of All-Australian but this year won’t be one of them. English is a lock for the team.

 

[sobrave]

Every time I've seen english he's been awful. What am I missing? I'd have Witts any day

 

[Mr Meow]

Every time I've seen english he's been awful. What am I missing? I'd have Witts any day

His bad games have been really bad so you might have caught the wrong games. His duo against Hawthorn, one against Freo, one against Port and one against Brisbane were forgettable.

Besides that he's been very good as essentially another midfielder that links up really well with his unit. Elite in his position for disposals, inside 50s, rebound 50s, intercepts, marks and tackles. No ruckman has more effective kicks per game and no best 22 ruckman has a higher disposal effciency. He's still pretty solid for hitouts and getting first use to Bont and Libba as well. If anything he's a blend of an outside midfielder and a ruckman and gets involved in a lot of transitions.

He's a little low on clearances, scoring metrics and contested footy. He struggles against some of the classic big bodied ruckmen.

I'd say he's worth his spot but wouldn't be if Gawn had put together a consistent season.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Wait, did i seriously see people putting Newcombe forward a few pages back?

Look i love the way he goes about it and he's a good footballer but he's not close to AA this year.

He arguably hasn't had a better year than Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

, yet Kelly is nowhere near it, both play for crap teams who are bottom 3 as well.

 

[Slysh]

His bad games have been really bad so you might have caught the wrong games. His duo against Hawthorn, one against Freo, one against Port and one against Brisbane were forgettable.

Besides that he's been very good as essentially another midfielder that links up really well with his unit. Elite in his position for disposals, inside 50s, rebound 50s, intercepts, marks and tackles. No ruckman has more effective kicks per game and no best 22 ruckman has a higher disposal effciency. He's still pretty solid for hitouts and getting first use to Bont and Libba as well. If anything he's a blend of an outside midfielder and a ruckman and gets involved in a lot of transitions.

He's a little low on clearances, scoring metrics and contested footy. He struggles against some of the classic big bodied ruckmen.

I'd say he's worth his spot but wouldn't be if Gawn had put together a consistent season.

I think he is a little overrated but it is not a strong year for rucks. Grundy no longer an elite player, Gawn had his season limited by Grundy, Darcy very good but missed games.

He probably makes the team but i don't think he is the best ruckmen in the AFL. I don't rate having a ruckmen leading in to the back pocket to get cheap uncontested marks from kick ins especially if they are not going to be more damaging by foot. His ruck craft is improving but as you pointed out he can get bullied at times.

Probably the most deserving but i think it is a pretty weak year for ruckmen.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Let me start by saying I do NOT think Shai Bolton should be in the AA team (he should make squad)… but here are season stats from guys playing similar roles (Bolton a little more forward):

Bolton / Rozee :

Disposals: 21.9 / 25.8
Goals: 1.2 / 0.9
GA: 0.9 / 0.7
Contested: 10.0 / 8.6
DE%: 68% / 70.2%
Clangers : 3.7 / 3.8
Clearances: 4.3 / 3.8
SI’s : 6.8 / 6.8
Metres: 451 / 504
Turnovers: 4.5 / 5.7
Tackles : 3.0 / 5.0
AFL player ratings: 15.55 / 15.81

So despite less midfield time Bolton gets more clearances and more contested possessions. And 2.1 goals + goal assists to 1.6 and the same SI’s in a team that has scored nearly 300 points less.

So I don’t think Bolton should or will make it. But statistically at least his year has been every bit as good as Rozee’s, if not better, and Rozee is considered a lock.


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Except Rozee is helping his team win games and is fourth on the AFLCA votes.

Sometimes stats don't tell the whole story

 

[SSSSSS]

Wait, did i seriously see people putting Newcombe forward a few pages back?

Look i love the way he goes about it and he's a good footballer but he's not close to AA this year.

He arguably hasn't had a better year than Tim Kelly, yet Kelly is nowhere near it, both play for crap teams who are bottom 3 as well.

14th in the coaches votes. Greene and Sinclair ahead of him aren't competing for midfield spots. Gulden likely on the wing.

He'd be in that top 10-15 midfielders for this year.

I also agree that he isn't AA level this year but I don't think it would be that surprising if he was thereabouts for a squad berth.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

So, I did the math.

Jackson has played 7 games in the ruck, for 35 coaches votes. 5 votes a game. His averages are 29 HO, 19 disposals, 4 clearances, and 4.5 marks.

English from 21 games has 35 coaches votes, 1.7 votes a game. His averages are 30.6 HO, 19 touches, 3.2 clearances, and 6.2 marks.

Gawn from 18 games has 42 coaches votes. 2.3 votes a game. His averages are 25.1 HO, 16 touches, 4 clearances, 4.6 marks.

Marshall from 21 games has 45 coaches votes. 2.1 votes a game. His averages are 27 HO, 19.7 touches, 4.8 clearances, 5 marks.

So from what I can see all these guys are putting up very similar numbers in the ruck. However one has more than double the amount of coaches votes a game than the next best. Which means he's impacting games as a ruck much more than any of the other rucks in the comp.

You can’t just pick and choose games to suit your argument. The AA is judged on 23 games and not Jackson’s best 7 in a specific role.

He is deserving of the squad, and I wouldn’t mind seeing him on a bench, but there is 0 chance he will be the AA ruckman as he hasn’t played there enough.

Play him for a full season in the ruck and he will get there. But you have Darcy for that, which is why Freo have been so criticised for the trade.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Wait, did i seriously see people putting Newcombe forward a few pages back?

Look i love the way he goes about it and he's a good footballer but he's not close to AA this year.

He arguably hasn't had a better year than Tim Kelly, yet Kelly is nowhere near it, both play for crap teams who are bottom 3 as well.

It was actually started by a couple of journalists before any Hawthorn supporter even considered it a reality. Doubt he makes it, but the media raising his name certainly lit a fire under a lot of us who suddenly realised you could actually make a case for inclusion (in the squad at the very least).

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Can’t believe there’s about 50 posts in here debating whether Jackson is All-Australian. He’ll be a star and finish his career with a handful of All-Australian but this year won’t be one of them. English is a lock for the team.

I dont think any Freo supporter thinks Jackson should be starting ruck, s_wd6 is just using performances as a ruck to show the impact he's had in the role and through the year. He's definitely not getting a gig ahead of English but there is a legitimate claim to a bench spot

 

[theasian]

The only contenders from Brisbane are likely to be C Cameron, Daniher , Andrews and Neale.

Neale's form has dropped in the past few weeks and AA selectors such as Cornes and Buckley have questioned his impact on the game this year.

Charlie's form also tapered off for large chunks in the latter half in the season and if the selectors chose Rozee and Petracca on the flanks.

Daniher 's selection depends on whether Selctors will chose a Third Tall who can pinch hit the Ruck and he's up against Hawkins for a spot.

That leaves Andrews as the most likely selection from the Lions and would probably be competing with Sam taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

25

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

and Weitering for a kPD slection.

Or would none of the Lions players be selected? it is highly unusual for a Top 4 team to have zero selections.

 

[267Hacksaw]

The jungle drums beating around Gryan making it are embarrassing. You can't make a team of the year as a forward with 6 ****ing goals. Yeh, goal assists are great but hell, majority of those the forward has to do the work still. Boot off with that

 

[Mr Meow]

The only contenders from Brisbane are likely to be C Cameron, Daniher , Andrews and Neale.

Neale's form has dropped in the past few weeks and AA selectors such as Cornes and Buckley have questioned his impact on the game this year.

Charlie's form also tapered off for large chunks in the latter half in the season and if the selectors chose Rozee and Petracca on the flanks.

Daniher 's selection depends on whether Selctors will chose a Third Tall who can pinch hit the Ruck and he's up against Hawkins for a spot.

That leaves Andrews as the most likely selection from the Lions and would probably be competing with Sam taylor and Weitering for a kPD slection.

Or would none of the Lions players be selected? it is highly unusual for a Top 4 team to have zero selections.

I just can't see that happening so at the very least I think Andrews, who has had a fine season, will make it.

Will C.Cameron be rewarded for many consistent seasons, where he definitely should've had more than one AA selection? I'm just about leaning "yes" and think one of my favourite smokies, Langford, will be the one to pay the price.

Neale I can see missing for the reason you stated and they will pick a Serong or Merrett (or both) instead.

 

[Greenswan]

Interesting that so many here are taking the coaches votes as absolute gospel. I wonder if these are the same people who scream and shout every Thursday night because player X can’t get a game or player Y is getting yet another opportunity. “They know best” though.

I think a lot of coaches spend way less time on placing their votes than we realise.

 

[cosmicwinduptoy]

Interesting that so many here are taking the coaches votes as absolute gospel. I wonder if these are the same people who scream and shout every Thursday night because player X can’t get a game or player Y is getting yet another opportunity. “They know best” though.

I think a lot of coaches spend way less time on placing their votes than we realise.

Historically coaches votes have been a very good guide to AA selections.

Have a look at last year. How many in the top ten made AA?

 

[sobrave]

Let me start by saying I do NOT think Shai Bolton should be in the AA team (he should make squad)… but here are season stats from guys playing similar roles (Bolton a little more forward):

Bolton / Rozee :

Disposals: 21.9 / 25.8
Goals: 1.2 / 0.9
GA: 0.9 / 0.7
Contested: 10.0 / 8.6
DE%: 68% / 70.2%
Clangers : 3.7 / 3.8
Clearances: 4.3 / 3.8
SI’s : 6.8 / 6.8
Metres: 451 / 504
Turnovers: 4.5 / 5.7
Tackles : 3.0 / 5.0
AFL player ratings: 15.55 / 15.81

So despite less midfield time Bolton gets more clearances and more contested possessions. And 2.1 goals + goal assists to 1.6 and the same SI’s in a team that has scored nearly 300 points less.

So I don’t think Bolton should or will make it. But statistically at least his year has been every bit as good as Rozee’s, if not better, and Rozee is considered a lock.


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Have you watched rozee's games or are you going off stats? Rozee strengths are being able to make space where there isnt much and get off a clean possession - he'd be close to the best in the comp at doing that and barely gets tackled this year. He's not an enormous possession getter but his touches are very impactful. There's a reason he's pretty much considered a lock which you'd see if you'd watch the games instead