List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading

[Interloperer]

The first point here is the fact if you're considering that we're in the same situation four years later (i.e. seemingly we haven't got ourselves trapped in rebuilding hell) with two elite talents we wouldn't have otherwise is not a success, your notions for what a successful rebuild look like is very unrealistic. After all, if you know this is the result of that decision four years in, you make the call to burn it down every day of the week. Elite talent (in Thilthorpe and Rachele) is just too valuable to be worried about things like "oh, there might have been less pain". The point of a rebuild is to make your list worse to hopefully build a premiership winning core and those two are what underpins any core we have in the next decade.

It's not just a matter of 'less pain' though. Not all players progress in struggling teams.

From their draft pick Fogarty and Jones for instance should be spoken of as 'elite talent' too. But they are only just progressing beyond what they showed in 2019 now.

For evidence that our current admin is better? We haven't shot ourselves in the foot for over the year with stupid stuff ups, and are starting to be a good football club. Unlike the Chapman and Trigg/Fagan era where they presided over a club where that occurred 2-3 times a season in a calm year. The bar to be better than those hacks is on the floor. So, yeah, by being competent, they're spectacularly better. The other indication is we're actually spending money on our off-field staff instead of being a cheaped out husk of a side. After all, Burgess, Rahilly, and Burns wouldn't be that cheap and they're all post-Olsen.

The transition of the new base of operations from "Thank goodness we aren't being screwed into moving to Thebarton by the SANFL like we would have been in the old days" to "Maybe if we're lucky, in 10 years we'll get a significant portion of what was originally promised at Thebarton" could be something straight out of the Trigg days.

 

[AFC979810]

Also, how many premierships did Walker and Sloane net us?

We will survive.

True. Its the best measure of a player. Nathan Buckley wasn't missed when he retired.

 

[Hate the pear]

Well telling Richard Douglas like 15 seconds before the cameras started rolling that we weren't here to announce he would go on another year but his retirement was one of the coldest moves I have seen in a long time

Did this actually happen?? Surely he didn't walk into a presser nor knowing he was retirin...

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Stephens was a regular in the norwood league side and playing well..thats why

Maybe

Never thought he was that good personally whereas Day you could project an elite player once he got into an afl environment

 

[maxlilly]

That's the frustrating thing, even non experts could see Day was going to be a good player but our recruiters couldn't

Maybe

Never thought he was that good personally whereas Day you could project an elite player once he got into an afl environment

 

[Mostyn]

That's the frustrating thing, even non experts could see Day was going to be a good player but our recruiters couldn't

Really?

Where were all the people saying to draft Day that high in the lead up to the draft? There might have been a few speculative things on here from South Australians, as there is every year about SA talent, but there was nothing being widely discussed that I can remember

Where he was taken was already much higher than even Will was expecting.

 

[Vader]

Well when i looked at the tape for the centre bounces Sloane featured heavily.

I can't find figures for centre bounce attendances, but his centre clearances are way down this year. From 2016-2022 (excluding 2020 due to shortened games), he averaged 2.17 centre clearances per game, varying from 1.9 (2018) to 2.6 (2017). In 2023, he's averaging 0.8 per game.

Yes, he's still attending centre bounces, but nowhere near as many as he did in the past. More & more responsibility is being handed to the younger mids, such as Soligo, Dawson & Rachele.

 

[WeeBlake]

Heavily invested at hawthorn , Mitchell getting best out of him in this midfield role and he knows it , he’s at the right club for him unfortunately

What if what if what if, Purple gets his way, and Hawks get a draft walloping for the racism fiasco, and young Will starts publicly demanding the club work out a path forward from that disadvantage…

 

[WeeBlake]

Really?

Where were all the people saying to draft Day that high in the lead up to the draft? There might have been a few speculative things on here from South Australians, as there is every year about SA talent, but there was nothing being widely discussed that I can remember

Where he was taken was already much higher than even Will was expecting.

Mostly true. Even on here (where SA players get talked up most) he wasn’t widely discussed as a viable option for our first pick. Stephens was, not Day.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Really?

Where were all the people saying to draft Day that high in the lead up to the draft? There might have been a few speculative things on here from South Australians, as there is every year about SA talent, but there was nothing being widely discussed that I can remember

Where he was taken was already much higher than even Will was expecting.

A few that had seen him in his draft year on here had him as the best SA kid ahead of Stephens and Pickett

Pickett is more the surprise packet in terms of how good he is in my book , rather than Day

 

[relapse]

I can't find figures for centre bounce attendances, but his centre clearances are way down this year. From 2016-2022 (excluding 2020 due to shortened games), he averaged 2.17 centre clearances per game, varying from 1.9 (2018) to 2.6 (2017). In 2023, he's averaging 0.8 per game.

Yes, he's still attending centre bounces, but nowhere near as many as he did in the past. More & more responsibility is being handed to the younger mids, such as Soligo, Dawson & Rachele.

Here's some stats I've been able to find for CBAs.

It doesn't have the number per game, but rather the percentage of how many they attended that game.

https://dfsaustralia.com/afl-cbas/

 

[Vader]

Here's some stats I've been able to find for CBAs.

It doesn't have the number per game, but rather the percentage of how many they attended that game.

https://dfsaustralia.com/afl-cbas/

Excellent, thanks.

So...
2020 - attended 56% of all CBs, 40% or more in 7 of 11 games, 80% or more in 4 of 11
2021 - attended 78% of all CBs, 60% or more in every game, 80% or more in 12 of 22
2022 - only played 3 full games before injury, 40% or more in all 3 games
2023 - attended 31% of all CBs, 40% or more in only 3 games, no games > 60%

I'd say those figures show a clear reduction in his CBAs in 2023...

 

[maxlilly]

Really?

Where were all the people saying to draft Day that high in the lead up to the draft? There might have been a few speculative things on here from South Australians, as there is every year about SA talent, but there was nothing being widely discussed that I can remember

Where he was taken was already much higher than even Will was expecting.

Will was clearly one of the best SA lads in the draft.
There was plenty of talk about him on the drafting thread that year

 

[Mutineer]

Will was clearly one of the best SA lads in the draft.
There was plenty of talk about him on the drafting thread that year

Correct he was highly rated on this boards Draft thread by quite a few.

 

[BunjiMac]

I can't find figures for centre bounce attendances, but his centre clearances are way down this year. From 2016-2022 (excluding 2020 due to shortened games), he averaged 2.17 centre clearances per game, varying from 1.9 (2018) to 2.6 (2017). In 2023, he's averaging 0.8 per game.

Yes, he's still attending centre bounces, but nowhere near as many as he did in the past. More & more responsibility is being handed to the younger mids, such as Soligo, Dawson & Rachele.

I don't have stats either I just rewatched the tape and Sloane was only behind Laird and Dawson for centre bounces.

Admittedly this was the Saints game I was watching. I wouldn't put myself through the Bulldogs game again.

 

[Vader]

I don't have stats either I just rewatched the tape and Sloane was only behind Laird and Dawson for centre bounces.

Admittedly this was the Saints game I was watching. I wouldn't put myself through the Bulldogs game again.

He was only at 25% of CBs for the doggies game. At 56%, the Saints game was his season high (to date). In 2022, he only had one game where he attended less than 56% of all CBs, so his maximum now is the minimum he was attending in 2022.

 

[Cap]

So do we have any inkling about the mind season draft ?

I assume we will have learnt from last year ?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

So do we have any inkling about the mid season draft ?

I assume we will have learnt from last year ?

Yep

Don't take on an injured mature age player on a 6 month contract during a rebuilding year where you won't make finals

Baffling that it's a lesson that needed to be learned but anyway, onward and upward

 

[Danger in Texas]

So do we have any inkling about the mind season draft ?

I assume we will have learnt from last year ?

Gut feel is we won't make a pick, I don't see us putting Taylor or Moose on the LTI list

 

[maxlilly]

So do we have any inkling about the mind season draft ?

I assume we will have learnt from last year ?

Hopefully the club is thinking along these lines this year
'Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. ..'

 

[Cap]

Yep

Don't take on an injured mature age player on a 6 month contract during a rebuilding year where you won't make finals

Baffling that it's a lesson that needed to be learned but anyway, onward and upward

Now I'm worried.

I believe the club thinks it can makes finals....so does that mean we need to do the same thing this year to learn a new lesson?

 

[GreyCrow]

Excellent, thanks.

So...
2020 - attended 56% of all CBs, 40% or more in 7 of 11 games, 80% or more in 4 of 11
2021 - attended 78% of all CBs, 60% or more in every game, 80% or more in 12 of 22
2022 - only played 3 full games before injury, 40% or more in all 3 games
2023 - attended 31% of all CBs, 40% or more in only 3 games, no games > 60%

I'd say those figures show a clear reduction in his CBAs in 2023...

I think there is more to this - certainly the raw data needs further analysis

Of the numbers who attended ALL CBAs in a game (excluding RoB , EH and RT)

Round 1 - 9 players used RS 3 (even Tyler Brown got more) - Sloane played wing
Round 2 - 8 players attended RS 0 ( the only game he has not attended CBA ie NOT 60%
Round 3 - 8 players attended RS 26 - that from memory was the last quarter and some of the 3rd
Round 4 - 7 players attended RS 36
Round 5 - 7 players attended RS 32
Round 6 - 6 players attended RS 46 (Keays 0 )
Round 7 - 6 players attended RS 37 (Keays 63)
Round 8 - 6 players attended RS 55 (Crouch 38 )
Round 9 - 9 players attended RS 56 (season high)
Round 10 - 8 players attended RS 25

Reilly O'Brien	233	83%	77	84	91	96	71	81	89	79	75	90
Rory Laird	215	77%	71	81	79	71	87	77	74	79	69	75
Jordan Dawson	164	58%	0	3	62	57	90	77	74	76	84	75
Sam Berry	65	56%	71	68	38							45
Matt Crouch	11	38%								38
Josh Rachele	97	35%	29	35	53	36	58	69	21	17	9	5
Harry Schoenberg	36	33%	39	48		32			0
Rory Sloane	88	31%	3	0	26	36	32	46	37	55	56	25
Jake Soligo	82	29%	39	35	18	21	23	27	32	34	44	15
Tyler Brown	7	23%	23
Ben Keays	48	17%	13	19	21	46	6	0	63	0	3	15
Riley Thilthorpe	39	17%		16	9	4	29	19	11	21	25
Elliott Himmelberg	8	10%	19	0								10
Luke Pedlar	12	5%	0	0	0		3	0	0	0	19	25
Izak Rankine	11	4%	13	10	0	0	0	0	0	0	13	0
Chayce Jones	6	3%			3	0	0	4	0	0	0	20
Ned McHenry	1	1%				0	0	0			3
Taylor Walker	1	0%	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

Total Team CBAs			31	31	34	28	31	26	19	29	32	20

 

[GreyCrow]

Good to see Soligos numbers
I hope they persist with Pedlar
Keays getting more than 30% is concerning
Racheles numbers dropping off
Hope Jones numbers slowly increase

 

[Rankine2Thilthorpe]

What if what if what if, Purple gets his way, and Hawks get a draft walloping for the racism fiasco, and young Will starts publicly demanding the club work out a path forward from that disadvantage…

No way the AFL hits a Victorian club with draft sanctions over this. If it were the Crows on the other hand, we’d be without a first rounder until 2028

 

[MRB37]

Good to see Soligos numbers
I hope they persist with Pedlar
Keays getting more than 30% is concerning
Racheles numbers dropping off
Hope Jones numbers slowly increase

He's going to be used at times, but he's had 8 of his 10 games under 25% and he averaged 69% last year, so his use is way way down. in 2021 outside of the Carlton game where he tagged Saad and Port Adelaide at the end of the year 65% was the lowest he attended and he had 9 games above 70% and 8 games above 80%.