Training 2023 Pre Season

[George]

He was all f%%ked up on cocaine and had lost the plot

Yep. I remember the interview he did with The Footy Show back in 2016/2017. Couldn't find it online but here's another interview where he explains his time at the club and the addictions he had at the same time.

 

[gringo2011]

No head coach can create miracles, but we have surrounded a very good coach (RTB) with excellent assistants - Corey, Harvey, Hayes, Goddard, Batchelor & Carroll.

We have significant holes in our list namely another dominant key forward and a versatile ruckman, 2 x elite midfielders and our kicking skills perpetually let us down. Football is a game of keepings off and until we can collectively improve our field kicking and can rely on our shots on goal skills, we are not going to be contenders.

We may already have some of those players to take us to the next level on the list, but they are going to take some time to become dominant in their positions eg King, Battle, Higgins, Gresham, Hayes, Keeler, Windhager, Owens, Phillipou, NWM, Sharman, Heath, Van Es & Hotton. The question is whether they can peak while we still have the more senior players firing is the Big If? If RTB and his coaches can transition these afore mentioned players before we lose the older core we will be a very good side and capable of anything. The issue is the age/experience gap between our core and the elite kids we have just brought in.Most GF winning teams can afford to have a few inexperienced players, but not as many as we will be relying on. So with the above in mind it might take a season or two before we really hit our straps, lets just hope it occurs before we lose some of our older players

Not too concerned about a second elite KPF or the age gap. Sydney were a much younger side than us and made a GF....actually they only had Franklin scoring a big tally last year too. We have a lot of players in their early to mid 20s and some seniors with a lot of development left. I feel like we have had a couple of years of a significant number of players underperforming.

 

[jh38]

Yeah I'm big on the quality of list makes the coach and not the other way around, I'm also not sure about this list putting a decent team in place, the list vulnerabilities are very sensitive to injury with a severe lack of depth, however if the players who debuted last year and also some established players can improve then obviously we have finally had some luck with list development. But I think Lyon will have to turn this list over a fair bit before he gets the type of players who can be standing in the dying minutes of a GF.

I think a champion team beats a team full of champions. If the last couple of years have shown us anything then its that a well drilled team with a good system will do a lot better than a team with lots of superstars. Sure its handy to have superstars in the team, but if the game plan is solid then we will be fine. Its just about having enough depth if we have injuries. The key forward problem doesn't really pose too much of a problem in my mind, we've seen plenty of teams operate with mid sized forwards as their main target for the past few years; if the ball comes in quick enough then it doesn't matter who is down there.

 

[Ads734]

Can someone just tell me if the Poo is injured and if so how bad is it?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm hearing that all our players are beating personal bests during pre-season training.
OK , if the list is the most important thing, surely a fitter list is a lot better than a list with no tank.
Maybe Ratten was a better strategist than Richo, but it seems that Richo was better at getting the most out of his players.

 

[gringo2011]

I think a champion team beats a team full of champions. If the last couple of years have shown us anything then its that a well drilled team with a good system will do a lot better than a team with lots of superstars. Sure its handy to have superstars in the team, but if the game plan is solid then we will be fine. Its just about having enough depth if we have injuries. The key forward problem doesn't really pose too much of a problem in my mind, we've seen plenty of teams operate with mid sized forwards as their main target for the past few years; if the ball comes in quick enough then it doesn't matter who is down there.

Last year Sydney had Franklin who scored 52 goals, Heeney 49, Hayward 34, Papley 32, Warmer 20, Reid 20, Gulden 18, McDonald 15 (for the year including finals).

Saints had King 52, Membrey 34, Higgins 30, Butler 19, Gresham 16, Wood 13, Ryder 11, Marshall 9, Crouch 7, Hill 6, Steele 5, Sinclair 4, DMac 3- we didn't play finals so had less games but to me we need more scores not necessarily from tall forwards. Developing another scoring option like Sharman or getting more scores from Gresham, Billings, Butler, Snags, Membrey etc will cover the holes.

 

[Cairnsman]

The key forward problem doesn't really pose too much of a problem in my mind, we've seen plenty of teams operate with mid sized forwards as their main target for the past few years; if the ball comes in quick enough then it doesn't matter who is down there.

Does the ball coming into the forward line need to be accurately delivered? I think at the AFL level turnovers in your forward line often ends in a shot on goal at the other end. Coming in quickly sounds fantastic in theory but I think skilful players who can execute under pressure are required.

 

[George]

Lol the problem with the list has never been their ability to be more athletic or run better time trials.

The problem with this list has always been mentality and leadership, and until that changes we will go nowhere.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Can someone just tell me if the Poo is injured and if so how bad is it?

No we cant
Not in this thread

This is the coaching ability thread

 

[jh38]

Last year Sydney had Franklin who scored 52 goals, Heeney 49, Hayward 34, Papley 32, Warmer 20, Reid 20, Gulden 18, McDonald 15 (for the year including finals).

Saints had King 52, Membrey 34, Higgins 30, Butler 19, Gresham 16, Wood 13, Ryder 11, Marshall 9, Crouch 7, Hill 6, Steele 5, Sinclair 4, DMac 3- we didn't play finals so had less games but to me we need more scores not necessarily from tall forwards. Developing another scoring option like Sharman or getting more scores from Gresham, Billings, Butler, Snags, Membrey etc will cover the holes.

I'd argue that the lack of scoring was a result of a game plan, we could barely get the ball into our forward 50 in the last 11 games. Yes I agree that we need to develop Sharman as he has definitely shown glimpses, but I also think scoring will naturally increase with a more attacking game plan.

 

[jh38]

Does the ball coming into the forward line need to be accurately delivered? I think at the AFL level turnovers in your forward line often ends in a shot on goal at the other end. Coming in quickly sounds fantastic in theory but I think skilful players who can execute under pressure are required.

I think we've got plenty of good ball users, we just didn't get the ball into their hands, and when we did they were behind centre. We've got enough talent by foot, its just about getting it to them in good positions.

 

[gringo2011]

I'd argue that the lack of scoring was a result of a game plan, we could barely get the ball into our forward 50 in the last 11 games. Yes I agree that we need to develop Sharman as he has definitely shown glimpses, but I also think scoring will naturally increase with a more attacking game plan.

I was happy to argue that all year. We looked dysfunctional in our attacking forward structure. We dropped every ball on King and had very little else. Once Ratts lost his over the back game plan from 2020 scoring dried up.

 

[jh38]

I was happy to argue that all year. We looked dysfunctional in our attacking forward structure. We dropped every ball on King and had very little else. Once Ratts lost his over the back game plan from 2020 scoring dried up.

100% agree with you on that. I don't understand how it went on for so long. The ball movement slowed, and eventually no one would create space in the forwardline anymore. When it came in slow we just bombed it. If you look at Geelong's forwardline, they also use the chip kick to 40m out with a key forward coming up on a very small lead. We never had a get out of jail free card to get a set shot inside 50, no one ever created lanes for others to run into either.

 

[plugger66]

I think a champion team beats a team full of champions. If the last couple of years have shown us anything then its that a well drilled team with a good system will do a lot better than a team with lots of superstars. Sure its handy to have superstars in the team, but if the game plan is solid then we will be fine. Its just about having enough depth if we have injuries. The key forward problem doesn't really pose too much of a problem in my mind, we've seen plenty of teams operate with mid sized forwards as their main target for the past few years; if the ball comes in quick enough then it doesn't matter who is down there.

What teams in the last 5 years have done that? Some mightn’t be great y’all forwards but they have still been there.

 

[plugger66]

I'm hearing that all our players are beating personal bests during pre-season training.
OK , if the list is the most important thing, surely a fitter list is a lot better than a list with no tank.
Maybe Ratten was a better strategist than Richo, but it seems that Richo was better at getting the most out of his players.

Every year apparently every club beats the previous year. One year we will start training and finish the year before we start.

 

[plugger66]

I was happy to argue that all year. We looked dysfunctional in our attacking forward structure. We dropped every ball on King and had very little else. Once Ratts lost his over the back game plan from 2020 scoring dried up.

Except for the first 11 games last year. With time difference it was only 3 points a game. 2020 is still a strange year for many reasons.

 

[Oh When the Saints]

Mate I love Ross the Boss but doing 5 minute segments on Footy Classifieds ain't going to be setting him up to be a better coach.

Having said that there's no doubt he will have been watching lots of tape this off-season and will have an intricate idea of how each team is playing.

RTB was also doing special comments for MMM so was watching at least one full game per round - he would have seen most teams play live at least a couple of times during the year. Everyone he worked with in the media says the guy was still razor sharp on tactics and game plan.

Agree with the earlier comment that the biggest issue this St Kilda list has had for the last 6-7 years is mental. We are soft and we lack leadership. The unrelenting commitment has not been there. We have been the furthest possible thing from an 'anywhere, anytime' football team.

That's RTB's biggest challenge. Game plan is just a few % around the edges. This is not an elite list c. 2004/05 but it is good enough to finish top 6 and after that it mostly comes down to a bit of luck, injuries, fixture etc. as to whether you go deep in September.

RTB has told the Board to give him 12-18 months before we start to see some results. I reckon if he can get the mental side right then the rest will start to follow quickly.

 

[plugger66]

RTB was also doing special comments for MMM so was watching at least one full game per round - he would have seen most teams play live at least a couple of times during the year. Everyone he worked with in the media says the guy was still razor sharp on tactics and game plan.

Agree with the earlier comment that the biggest issue this St Kilda list has had for the last 6-7 years is mental. We are soft and we lack leadership. The unrelenting commitment has not been there. We have been the furthest possible thing from an 'anywhere, anytime' football team.

That's RTB's biggest challenge. Game plan is just a few % around the edges. This is not an elite list c. 2004/05 but it is good enough to finish top 6 and after that it mostly comes down to a bit of luck, injuries, fixture etc. as to whether you go deep in September.

RTB has told the Board to give him 12-18 months before we start to see some results. I reckon if he can get the mental side right then the rest will start to follow quickly.

Unfortunately about 14 sides have a list good enough to finish around 6th. The first couple of things we need to get right is a great system and get away from the same same midfield. That has killed us the last few years. That means we needs mids that are better than average when playing another position. Our best 3 mids who are very similar can only be average at best elsewhere.

 

[jh38]

What teams in the last 5 years have done that? Some mightn’t be great y’all forwards but they have still been there.

Richmond were a team of role players, so were the 2016 and 2021 Dogs, as were the 2021 Dees. Sure they all had a few superstars, but it was more about the system and the players playing a role.

 

[BEEG]

How is Steele going? Anyone remember how Ross played those type of players?

 

[plugger66]

Richmond were a team of role players, so were the 2016 and 2021 Dogs, as were the 2021 Dees. Sure they all had a few superstars, but it was more about the system and the players playing a role.

Not doubting that. Said for years Richmond have the best systems I’ve seen in footy. They also went and got another tall forward maybe because they thought one wasn’t enough. Dogs got Boyd and fluked 3 good games from him. Not sure about their systems. Never really noticed it. Also Richmond had maybe the best grand finals player ever. Dogs midfield kills our well the last few years. No tall forwards and an average midfield isn’t a great ingredient. Midfield must change personal this year and I’m sure it will.

 

[SaintersUnite]

Lol the problem with the list has never been their ability to be more athletic or run better time trials.

The problem with this list has always been mentality and leadership, and until that changes we will go nowhere.

And the fact that our basic skills are woeful.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[George]

And the fact that our basic skills are woeful.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We were only a game out of the 8 so the skills are good enough to play finals, we just faded badly in a lot of games last season.

 

[jh38]

Not doubting that. Said for years Richmond have the best systems I’ve seen in footy. They also went and got another tall forward maybe because they thought one wasn’t enough. Dogs got Boyd and fluked 3 good games from him. Not sure about their systems. Never really noticed it. Also Richmond had maybe the best grand finals player ever. Dogs midfield kills our well the last few years. No tall forwards and an average midfield isn’t a great ingredient. Midfield must change personal this year and I’m sure it will.

I reckon we need to give the system a chance, we've been killed in the midfield for years now, but hopefully the coaches can change that. We've got 2 very good inside midfielders in Crouch and Steele. They're also 2 of the best tacklers in the league. All we need is a linebreaker who can burst away from stoppages. Seb has shown glimpses of that throughout his career, but the obvious candidate for that role is Windy. We've got a very good litmus test in our first 5 games and I think that by the end of that stretch we'll know where our midfield stands, but I'm sure the coaches and players will back themselves in.

 

[Parkysp]

Just for reference, this was an article explaining the dip that occured at the start of 2016 for Freo (0-9) after being 9-0 and with a percentage of 150% to start

.
Good to see that someone else went where I did for some historical reference rather than the emotive of A+B=C from a season 7 years ago. I got to the same article earlier.

It's interesting that across the other side of the world a legendary manager is having a shocker of a season (Jurgen Klopp) after 6 years of glory.

Perhaps that's all you get from these men who are manic and take a group with them until they flame out. A drag race for a few years. How glorious though that those years are. As a Liverpool supporter the Klopp years have been magnificent. As a Stkilda supporter 07-11 was fantastic in the RTB years apart from the ultimate result of a premiership of course.

I'd be happy for us if we are the 2007 St Kilda and 2012 Freo starting on the journey right about now as what a ride they both went on. We've been on the starting line for 11 long years. Fire her up and explode it down towards the finish line I say. I'm stick of being stuck in neutral.

Oh and as always. If we do make it, could the footy gods please give us a Port Adelaide of 2007, GWS of 2019 or Sydney of 2022 on Grand Final Day rather than a Geelong of 2009, a Collingwood of 2010 or a Freo getting a Hawthorn of 2013. Ross bloody deserves it and so do we!