Training 2023 Pre Season

[seasonedsainter]

How is Steele going? Anyone remember how Ross played those type of players?

I've few doubts Steele will be living in the guts all year.

 

[AirWinmar]

Game plans aren't rocket surgery, I have every confidence Ross will be capable of nutting something out. A lack of talent on the list will be the same significant challenge for Ross as it has been for so many coaches before him.

It's more than gameplans. Our pre-season, drills and coaching is already looking way better that it has been. That is also going to make it more likely that you get the best out of players that will make your list look better.

In any event, the same list missed finals by only a game or so the last 2 years and our football department is the best it ever has been, so I'm bullish on us this season

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Every year apparently every club beats the previous year. One year we will start training and finish the year before we start.

There was nothing of the sort last year.
There were even comments that Ratten was letting them set their own pace.

 

[plugger66]

There was nothing of the sort last year.
There were even comments that Ratten was letting them set their own pace.

I bet the club said many players broke their best time in time trials last year. I’d be certain.

 

[seasonedsainter]

It's more than gameplans. Our pre-season, drills and coaching is already looking way better that it has been. That is also going to make it more likely that you get the best out of players that will make your list look better.

In any event, the same list missed finals by only a game or so the last 2 years and our football department is the best it ever has been, so I'm bullish on us this season

Also bullish. Will need more luck with injuries though if we're to be anywhere near serious. Pretty pumped to see how a few players progress - Clark, Sharman, Owens, Windy, NAS, Bytel to name a few - also very interested to see changes in how we go about it generally.

No reason to believe we can't be competitive in most games and grab ourselves a Finals appearance.

See you in the ECO thread in a few months.

 

[bergholt]

Lol the problem with the list has never been their ability to be more athletic or run better time trials.

The problem with this list has always been mentality and leadership, and until that changes we will go nowhere.

Yup agreed. The older players don’t have what it takes from a leadership perspective, including and especially those we’ve brought in from other sides. And unfortunately it's not clear the middle group are much better so we might be waiting a while.

31: Campbell
30:
29: Ross, Webster, Hill, Wood, Crouch
28: Membrey, Sinclair, Jones
27: Billings, Marshall, Steele, Wilkie, Howard
26: McKenzie, Butler, Cordy, Hayes
25: Gresham
24: Paton, Battle, Higgins, Clark
23: Coffield, Stocker, Bytel

• Ross dropped out the leadership group, presumably a reason for that
• Membrey is in the leadership group but I don't rate him as a leader
• Steele current captain but jury out on him in that role
• Wilkie seems a decent leader
• Howard thinks he's a leader but no-one else does
• Coffield might be a leader but needs to cement himself back in the side first
• Bytel was said to have leadership qualities but can't get a game
• The rest zero chance

The cupboard is pretty empty there imo.

So we seem to be relying on some of this mob to make it as players and as leaders:

22: King, Sharman
21: Byrnes, Connolly, Allison
20: Heath, Wanganeen-Milera
19: Windhager, Adams, Owens, Peris
18: Keeler, Van Es, McLennan, Hotton, Phillipou

• I guess King is an obvious possibility but not sure I've seen him really putting his hand up yet
• Windhager the obvious one here but it's his second year so who knows if he even makes it
• Phillipou has the personality but will he be a footballer?
• The rest don't seem like it at this early stage

Really don't see much of huge promise here, we're relying on a lot going right from a leadership perspective.

 

[seasonedsainter]

Yup agreed. The older players don’t have what it takes from a leadership perspective, including and especially those we’ve brought in from other sides. And unfortunately it's not clear the middle group are much better so we might be waiting a while.

31: Campbell
30:
29: Ross, Webster, Hill, Wood, Crouch
28: Membrey, Sinclair, Jones
27: Billings, Marshall, Steele, Wilkie, Howard
26: McKenzie, Butler, Cordy, Hayes
25: Gresham
24: Paton, Battle, Higgins, Clark
23: Coffield, Stocker, Bytel

• Ross dropped out the leadership group, presumably a reason for that
• Membrey is in the leadership group but I don't rate him as a leader
• Steele current captain but jury out on him in that role
• Wilkie seems a decent leader
• Howard thinks he's a leader but no-one else does
• Coffield might be a leader but needs to cement himself back in the side first
• Bytel was said to have leadership qualities but can't get a game
• The rest zero chance

The cupboard is pretty empty there imo.

So we seem to be relying on some of this mob to make it as players and as leaders:

22: King, Sharman
21: Byrnes, Connolly, Allison
20: Heath, Wanganeen-Milera
19: Windhager, Adams, Owens, Peris
18: Keeler, Van Es, McLennan, Hotton, Phillipou

• I guess King is an obvious possibility but not sure I've seen him really putting his hand up yet
• Windhager the obvious one here but it's his second year so who knows if he even makes it
• Phillipou has the personality but will he be a footballer?
• The rest don't seem like it at this early stage

Really don't see much of huge promise here, we're relying on a lot going right from a leadership perspective.

"Howard thinks he's a leader but no-one else does"

 

[plugger66]

Yup agreed. The older players don’t have what it takes from a leadership perspective, including and especially those we’ve brought in from other sides. And unfortunately it's not clear the middle group are much better so we might be waiting a while.

31: Campbell
30:
29: Ross, Webster, Hill, Wood, Crouch
28: Membrey, Sinclair, Jones
27: Billings, Marshall, Steele, Wilkie, Howard
26: McKenzie, Butler, Cordy, Hayes
25: Gresham
24: Paton, Battle, Higgins, Clark
23: Coffield, Stocker, Bytel

• Ross dropped out the leadership group, presumably a reason for that
• Membrey is in the leadership group but I don't rate him as a leader
• Steele current captain but jury out on him in that role
• Wilkie seems a decent leader
• Howard thinks he's a leader but no-one else does
• Coffield might be a leader but needs to cement himself back in the side first
• Bytel was said to have leadership qualities but can't get a game
• The rest zero chance

The cupboard is pretty empty there imo.

So we seem to be relying on some of this mob to make it as players and as leaders:

22: King, Sharman
21: Byrnes, Connolly, Allison
20: Heath, Wanganeen-Milera
19: Windhager, Adams, Owens, Peris
18: Keeler, Van Es, McLennan, Hotton, Phillipou

• I guess King is an obvious possibility but not sure I've seen him really putting his hand up yet
• Windhager the obvious one here but it's his second year so who knows if he even makes it
• Phillipou has the personality but will he be a footballer?
• The rest don't seem like it at this early stage

Really don't see much of huge promise here, we're relying on a lot going right from a leadership perspective.

I like Howard as a leader down back. Nothing wrong with giving it to players as long as he can take it as well. No idea if he can. Our midfield is where we lack leadership and probably the forward line. I have no doubt hanners would be captain now had he been ready from day one.

 

[CursingFijian]

Sounds fair enough in theory but firstly we have to make a forward step to play finals. Secondly we have actually lost king and Marshall from our forward line and yes hayes hasn’t proved anything yet but he was the only real big body left. Also tge games they miss are real close to 50/50 games and if those outs make it a 1 3 start or even a zero 4 start then we are really behind the 8 ball. Obviously if we go 2 and 2 or better that really gives us great hope. But my big reason it maybe a tough year is Lyon and his coaching systems. Much better players than we have on our list now went backwards results wise in his first season with us last time. What they did do though I’d go forward in learning a system that with luck could have won us a grand final or two. Freo didn’t go backwards but they had a terrible year before he took over. That gives a little hope but the question is simple. How does that side kick enough goals early especially if we play attacking footy. I reckon we aren’t playing attacking footy early in the year and so we shouldn’t. Mentioning guys coming back from injury is a real myth. Said it for years on here because who knows what’s around the corner with injury. Anyway we were only mid table for games lost from injury. Geelong were way ahead of us and we know what they did.

I think the last time that Ross Lyon was at St Kilda the new game plan was a fundamental shift from how most AFL clubs played at the time. I don't think the new game plan this time around is as large an adjustment. There will still be teething issues, but I think the biggest issue that RtB will have is that he won't have the cattle to execute the roles that he wants each position to play. Some players will lack one (or a combination) of skill, footy intellegentia, and physical prowess.

I think at best we can be like a poor mans Melbourne, competing well in most aspects of the game but just lacking the firepower up front to convert possession and territory into goals.

I hope we finish 6-8, but unfortunately I think we're on track for a 8th -12th finish this season. For what its worth I just want us to 1) play with more consistency and 2) see a number of the kids take a significant step forward. We desperately need the youth like King, Higgins, Coffield, Clark, NWM, Windhager, Owens, Phillipou, Bytel, Byrnes, Stocker & Sharman to start carrying a bigger load.

If we get to the end of this year and we're still hoping RtB can take the 27 year old contingent like Marshall, Howard, Butler, McKenzie, Billings, Jones, Hayes and Cordy to "the next level" we're just kidding ourselves. They are probably all they're ever going to be now.

 

[Mindtraveller]

Yup agreed. The older players don’t have what it takes from a leadership perspective, including and especially those we’ve brought in from other sides. And unfortunately it's not clear the middle group are much better so we might be waiting a while.

31: Campbell
30:
29: Ross, Webster, Hill, Wood, Crouch
28: Membrey, Sinclair, Jones
27: Billings, Marshall, Steele, Wilkie, Howard
26: McKenzie, Butler, Cordy, Hayes
25: Gresham
24: Paton, Battle, Higgins, Clark
23: Coffield, Stocker, Bytel

• Ross dropped out the leadership group, presumably a reason for that
• Membrey is in the leadership group but I don't rate him as a leader
• Steele current captain but jury out on him in that role
• Wilkie seems a decent leader
• Howard thinks he's a leader but no-one else does
• Coffield might be a leader but needs to cement himself back in the side first
• Bytel was said to have leadership qualities but can't get a game
• The rest zero chance

The cupboard is pretty empty there imo.

So we seem to be relying on some of this mob to make it as players and as leaders:

22: King, Sharman
21: Byrnes, Connolly, Allison
20: Heath, Wanganeen-Milera
19: Windhager, Adams, Owens, Peris
18: Keeler, Van Es, McLennan, Hotton, Phillipou

• I guess King is an obvious possibility but not sure I've seen him really putting his hand up yet
• Windhager the obvious one here but it's his second year so who knows if he even makes it
• Phillipou has the personality but will he be a footballer?
• The rest don't seem like it at this early stage

Really don't see much of huge promise here, we're relying on a lot going right from a leadership perspective.

Should've given Webster a crack.

Might pump up the boys by putting someone into the fence, and stop him from doing it to team mates in preseason

 

[plugger66]

I think the last time that Ross Lyon was at St Kilda the new game plan was a fundamental shift from the most AFL clubs played at the time. I don't think the new game plan this time around is as large an adjustment. There will still be teething issues, but I think the biggest issue that RtB will have is that he won't have the cattle to execute the roles that he wants each position to play. Some players will lack one (or a combination) of skill, footy intellegentia, and physical prowess.

I think at best we can be like a poor mans Melbourne, competing well in most aspects of the game but just lacking the firepower up front to convert possession and territory into goals.

I hope we finish 6-8, but unfortunately I think we're on track for a 8th -12th finish this season. For what its worth I just want us to 1) play with more consistency and 2) see a number of the kids take a significant step forward. We desperately need the youth like King, Higgins, Coffield, Clark, NWM, Windhager, Owens, Phillipou, Bytel, Byrnes, Stocker & Sharman to start carrying a bigger load.

If we get to the end of this year and we're still hoping RtB can take the 27 year old contingent like Marshall, Howard, Butler, McKenzie, Billings, Jones, Hayes and Cordy to "the next level" we're just kidding ourselves. They are probably all they're ever going to be now.

I’m probably in fantasyland with a couple of older players but I still have high hopes for Marshall if he is the main ruck and probably ridiculous hope for billings that there is something there. The others are at their average best already. Maybe unfair on hayes because we don’t know his best but with injury it could be a tough season for him.

 

[BrutThough]

• Howard thinks he's a leader but no-one else does

Except everyone who voted him into a leadership position at 2 different football clubs.

 

[Saintbloke]

We wont go much further, unless we improve the quality of delivery out of the midfield, improve stoppage work and work on the forward structures. I think we have the cattle to reach finals, but we are still probably short of a quality ruck, and we can only hope RL can squeeze more out of those who are there.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Except everyone who voted him into a leadership position at 2 different football clubs.

Shhh....no room for facts here.

 

[gringo2011]

Not doubting that. Said for years Richmond have the best systems I’ve seen in footy. They also went and got another tall forward maybe because they thought one wasn’t enough. Dogs got Boyd and fluked 3 good games from him. Not sure about their systems. Never really noticed it. Also Richmond had maybe the best grand finals player ever. Dogs midfield kills our well the last few years. No tall forwards and an average midfield isn’t a great ingredient. Midfield must change personal this year and I’m sure it will.

The midfield is good enough but we need the wings and half forwards/flanks etc to improve. The Cats get the ball out to the guys outside, we need more of that and to move the ball fast and lock it in. Getting Hill on a wing and players like Billings and DMac fit will help. It sounds like Byrnes is burning up the track and Jones is back as well. Both offer a bit of pace. Geelong and Collingwood played with very minimalist inside midfields but both topped up.

 

[snails13]

Me personally, I thought he talked a lot of crap on footy classified. I used to fast forward through that segment or mute the sound.

Why did you watch it then

 

[saintmike65]

I bet the club said many players broke their best time in time trials last year. I’d be certain.

There wouldn’t have been 32 players that broke their time trial PB like they did this year!

 

[sammm]

lets hope it was not a cameo performance. but you would assume the coaches would have looked at him in this context of his 8 hours a day at the club for a few days.

 

[AirWinmar]

The midfield is good enough but we need the wings and half forwards/flanks etc to improve. The Cats get the ball out to the guys outside, we need more of that and to move the ball fast and lock it in. Getting Hill on a wing and players like Billings and DMac fit will help. It sounds like Byrnes is burning up the track and Jones is back as well. Both offer a bit of pace. Geelong and Collingwood played with very minimalist inside midfields but both topped up.

I think with a combination of Hill /Wood/DMack and a better gameplan we will have a good wing setup. I'm also hoping RTB can get the best out of Billings and think he can be a very good hff - if we could get him back to how he was in 2017 we'd be rapt. On the other flank Owens/Windy/Butler would should be ok

 

[SaintsSeptember]

lets hope it was not a cameo performance. but you would assume the coaches would have looked at him in this context of his 8 hours a day at the club for a few days.

When you take a player in the rookie draft you just call them out cold.
When there is only a week or so until the close off date of this thing, the train with can only really be viewed as an extended interview.

 

[The Cobra]

lets hope it was not a cameo performance. but you would assume the coaches would have looked at him in this context of his 8 hours a day at the club for a few days.

Caminiti was fantastic on Friday, and given the deadline I don’t think the Club had any other option but too make him an offer asap. The better he played it was obvious some of the senior players were becoming more supportive by voice.

I reckon his performance was way beyond what the Club was expecting in his first hit out and seemingly much better than anything Eyre produced whist he was trialling.

I think it’s too much to expect him to be a senior player straight away but let’s hope once he becomes part of the group he works hard and can benefit from the facilities, coaching and full time environment.

Best of luck to him!

 

[Joffaboy]

There was nothing of the sort last year.
There were even comments that Ratten was letting them set their own pace.

Not last year, that was the year before. The players were fit when Lyon took over.

 

[bergholt]

Except everyone who voted him into a leadership position at 2 different football clubs.

Sure, I mean that was mostly tongue in cheek but if you're asking me to defend it I will.

Leadership positions at most footy clubs are like a tallest dwarf contest. Someone has to get voted in. Given there are minimal options at the Saints, I'm not surprised he's in there, so I don't consider that much info.

I can't find any proof he was in the leadership group at Port. He captained them in one game against Gold Coast when Wines and Jonas were out, and Hinkley is quoted as saying his pre-game speech was a bit funny. Doesn't seem like he had much more official role than that.

I'm sure he's fine but seems like a leader the same way Membrey is. A good-natured guy, not super switched-on, wants the best for the team but doesn't necessarily have any insight into how to get the group performing.

 

[The Boar]

Sure, I mean that was mostly tongue in cheek but if you're asking me to defend it I will.

Leadership positions at most footy clubs are like a tallest dwarf contest. Someone has to get voted in. Given there are minimal options at the Saints, I'm not surprised he's in there, so I don't consider that much info.

I can't find any proof he was in the leadership group at Port. He captained them in one game against Gold Coast when Wines and Jonas were out, and Hinkley is quoted as saying his pre-game speech was a bit funny. Doesn't seem like he had much more official role than that.

I'm sure he's fine but seems like a leader the same way Membrey is. A good-natured guy, not super switched-on, wants the best for the team but doesn't necessarily have any insight into how to get the group performing.

How can you have any opinions on a leader if you haven't directly trained/worked/been led by them?

Shooting from the hip

 

[jwikked]

How can you have any opinions on a leader if you haven't directly trained/worked/been led by them?

Shooting from the hip

We haven't had decent leadership at the club for near 10 years. Don't need to be in the system to know that for a fact.