Training 2023 Pre Season

[Joffaboy]

If we don't make finals we have failed - again.
Doesn't mean Ross Lyon's reappointment has failed, it is a four year contract after all.

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[Cairnsman]

I really rate gresh as a very important player so I hope it isn’t him. The only thing he has done wrong since being recruited is get injured. His form when okaying is very good.

is he midfielder?, his cross the body kicking action probably not good with a game style that is based on speed and quick and accurate delivery into the forward line. Is he better as a small forward?

 

[pebblesofsand]

I love and respect your opinion. Who do you think need to be turned over?
Might actually make an interesting new thread.

17 on our current list of players are OOC at the end of the year. Then there's about another 17 who would be "available" for trade if the price was right.

St Kilda
Player Status
Daniel McKenzie RFA
Hunter Clark NFA
Jack Bytel NFA
Jack Peris NFA
Jade Gresham RFA
Jimmy Webster UFA
Leo Connolly NFA
Liam Stocker NFA
Mason Wood NFA
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera NFA
Nicholas Coffield NFA
Oscar Adams NFA
Ryan Byrnes NFA
Sebastian Ross UFA
Tom Campbell NFA
Tom Highmore
Anthony Caminiti

 

[John2010362340]

Before Ryder came Marshall was one of the best rucks in the comp. I think we tend to forget that. He's still young for a ruck so if he can get back to dominating games our midfield will be significantly better.

The roles Marshall has played over the past three years have been really selfless. It just became what it was because Ryder was so good at tapping but I think in hindsight we didn't manage the situation that well.

If You look at his hitout numbers last year when Ryder was out, there was significant improvement in that area from when Ryder wasn’t at the club. His around the ground stuff is where he made his name, but back half of last year he started getting some great hitout numbers, which suggests to me he’s matured and ready to make a stamp on the competition.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Caminiti was fantastic on Friday, and given the deadline I don’t think the Club had any other option but too make him an offer asap. The better he played it was obvious some of the senior players were becoming more supportive by voice.

I reckon his performance was way beyond what the Club was expecting in his first hit out and seemingly much better than anything Eyre produced whist he was trialling.

I think it’s too much to expect him to be a senior player straight away but let’s hope once he becomes part of the group he works hard and can benefit from the facilities, coaching and full time environment.

Best of luck to him!

Cult figure already, "The Hammer"

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Doe's "The Hammer" get 24, 46 or 47 jumper???

 

[sammm]

Will there be an intra club this year ?

Friday 10am

 

[Saint_Dos]

Doe's "The Hammer" get 24, 46 or 47 jumper???

Someone said he was training in 47 but may get his choice now he is listed

 

[akaifu]

Friday 10am

Is the match gonna be live-streamed anywhere? Want to watch but can't make it to the ground.

 

[tomjoad]

I think the last time that Ross Lyon was at St Kilda the new game plan was a fundamental shift from how most AFL clubs played at the time. I don't think the new game plan this time around is as large an adjustment. There will still be teething issues, but I think the biggest issue that RtB will have is that he won't have the cattle to execute the roles that he wants each position to play. Some players will lack one (or a combination) of skill, footy intellegentia, and physical prowess.

I think at best we can be like a poor mans Melbourne, competing well in most aspects of the game but just lacking the firepower up front to convert possession and territory into goals.

I hope we finish 6-8, but unfortunately I think we're on track for a 8th -12th finish this season. For what its worth I just want us to 1) play with more consistency and 2) see a number of the kids take a significant step forward. We desperately need the youth like King, Higgins, Coffield, Clark, NWM, Windhager, Owens, Phillipou, Bytel, Byrnes, Stocker & Sharman to start carrying a bigger load.

If we get to the end of this year and we're still hoping RtB can take the 27 year old contingent like Marshall, Howard, Butler, McKenzie, Billings, Jones, Hayes and Cordy to "the next level" we're just kidding ourselves. They are probably all they're ever going to be now.

There was a comment by Ross in either an interview, or St.Kilda video, where he says that this year will be about seeing who in the list is up to it or not. Unfortunately I don't see us making finals either CF...but I do like the idea of the "comfortable, easy wicket...the middle is okay for us." Vibe being burnt at the stake.

 

[AirWinmar]

is he midfielder?, his cross the body kicking action probably not good with a game style that is based on speed and quick and accurate delivery into the forward line. Is he better as a small forward?

I think Gresh's rushed roost around the body is his main issue that sets him back as a mid. Really hoping that that will get coached out of him this year and think it is possible with a more disciplined coaching setup and structures.

 

[AirWinmar]

Some may laugh, however I still believe Jack Billings can be a very valuable player for us. It's all too easy to forget what injuries can do to a players confidence and fitness levels. Jack's had a pretty bad run these last few years, particularly with the foot. Fingers crossed he has a clear go at it this season, and with the boss hopefully developing system he's just the sort of player to benefit immensely. That high half forward role should suit him perfectly , he has some nice skills to deliver inside fifty and hopefully can put a few through too.

He's just one of a number of slightly older players who could easily still go up a level or two. Now if that kinda thing happens with a few others in the same boat, this is where improvement can come a little faster than we might expect.

I'd say most of us would agree it seems a lack of system going forward has been a major issue for the team. As has been noted a number of times just going the bomb to Max all the time becomes easy to defend. We need new and differing angles, varied running patterns to create space and help a teammate be better. System. The boss eats this sh!t for breakfast. I have faith in the possibility that a few of these slightly older players could easily have career best seasons. Add in our exciting young crew and there's a lot to look forward to this season.

Obviously it's a huge bummer having early injuries to Hayesy and Max but the silver lining on that cloud is that we're downright forced to become less predictable, which can only be a good thing once the tall timber returns.

If we can grab a few early wins, at least roughly break even from the first five or six, anything is possible.

Completely agree with Billings. Has had some bad luck when injured and has stagnated the last 2 seasons, but peeps forget his first start to 2021 was looking great before the foot injury. Also think he will probably get played on hff where he can be a valuable player.

Tbh I think most can improve a lot, my view is that we didn't look well structured and drilled and I am confident this coaching group will have a massive improvement in that. Being well drilled and structured should make players look better

 

[CursingFijian]

I think Gresh's rushed roost around the body is his main issue that sets him back as a mid. Really hoping that that will get coached out of him this year and think it is possible with a more disciplined coaching setup and structures.

Agree, I think that's a bad habit that can be addressed. He also needs his teammates to work harder to present in space when he is clearing out of the middle.

 

[Max the great]

It must be the starting price and will come in as the money and form goes up.

That's how all betting works. Surely you know that?

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[Max the great]

Do you think he is a better coach then Ratts ?

Of course he is. RTB is a great coach. Ratts is VFL quality coach at absolute most.

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[stfan]

Great work sunny
I tried to articulate what I thought on Caminiti last Friday, however you have described him so much better.
Kicking at goal could improve, but if he was a dead eye he wouldn't be a supplementry list player taken with the last spot on the list 2 days before deadline.
A lot to work with, my description was that he looked like a natural footballer with lots of natural ability to get to the ball and stick the mark. He did himself no disservice with his match sim performance on Friday, so it is up to the kid to be a sponge, from the players around him and Ross.

.
Caminiti. Personally I think he is a great pick-up as SSP.

Earlier in this thread I kept advocating that our list was short one more genuine key forward and was howled down by most, So I am definitely pleased that we have picked up in Caminiti as a genuine key forward with lots of potential. I am definitely also most pleased that we are focussing on the future by going young, rather than just worrying about this season by say instead chasing an older one-year stop-gap.

He is a good contrast like Sunny posted to our medium talls like Sharman. But he is also nice contrast to Max King.

Then we also have Isaac Keeler.

This to me now gives us a very good blend on our list of three tall forwards in King 202, Keeler 198 and Caminiti 196, then the shorter Sharman 193 and Hayes 193 rounded out by the shorter again, but high vertical leaping Membrey at 188 and who still has many years left in the tank. All of them play differently.

Possibly Allison too, though I am still not convinced on his marking and general football nouse. Not all will make it, but there is good potential there, and possibly freakishly good too.

That marking group is then well supported by Phillipou and Owens both at 190 odd who bath can be HF-mid types who are forward marking threats.

This combined group has the raw talent to be moulded into a powerful forward line.

With Gresham, Higgins, Butler and Billings there is also a reasonable group of smalls to work with the above talls and mediums. Hotton impresses me greatly too, though is injury is going to limit him this year. It would be nice if Peris could come on as a player as his lightning pace could be a real asset, but football wise his kicking skills and play reading are sub-par at present.

 

[stavro#4]

Apparently last year Collingwood did a lot of training around game situations and a big part of why they were able to move to more set play stuff in red time. Good that we are modernising.

We do a heap of situational stuff.

Clock on the screen and the coaches set the scene and expectation.

I was more referring to how we practice our goal kicking now as opposed to previous years which felt more suburban football - with everyone kicking shots but not replicating even having a man on the mark.

Except for king. He always had roughy. Especially when he took his 100 shots from the goal square.

I’m sure others can support this. But the biggest takeaway from the improvement to our standards - is probably the level of education the boys get now.

Feedback immediately- sometimes it’s as small as the positioning of the guy 10m from the contest.

Other times it’s big as you would have seen from the training footage from fridays match sim. Calls an entire side in and literally educates them + challenges.

A number have already spoken about him pacing the outside of drills and then talking to boys individually.

What will disappoint people is that there hasn’t been to my knowledge a great focus on footskills. But I imagine they will weed the Clanger kings from the list at years end.

If I was to paint a picture of who we want to be.

Offensively- quick. Direct. Use of hand balls and corridor. Speed of ball is the emphasis. Chaos forward of the centre.

Defensively- pragmatic, dour. Happy to create Stoppages. Back 7 in open play. Physical. Smarter

 

[sammm]

We do a heap of situational stuff.

Clock on the screen and the coaches set the scene and expectation.

I was more referring to how we practice our goal kicking now as opposed to previous years which felt more suburban football - with everyone kicking shots but not replicating even having a man on the mark.

Except for king. He always had roughy. Especially when he took his 100 shots from the goal square.

I’m sure others can support this. But the biggest takeaway from the improvement to our standards - is probably the level of education the boys get now.

Feedback immediately- sometimes it’s as small as the positioning of the guy 10m from the contest.

Other times it’s big as you would have seen from the training footage from fridays match sim. Calls an entire side in and literally educates them + challenges.

A number have already spoken about him pacing the outside of drills and then talking to boys individually.

What will disappoint people is that there hasn’t been to my knowledge a great focus on footskills. But I imagine they will weed the Clanger kings from the list at years end.

If I was to paint a picture of who we want to be.

Offensively- quick. Direct. Use of hand balls and corridor. Speed of ball is the emphasis. Chaos forward of the centre.

Defensively- pragmatic, dour. Happy to create Stoppages. Back 7 in open play. Physical. Smarter

i believe it was one of Ross's ealirer comments, that he was not going to emphasise footskills i also vaguely remember, this was also mentioned at from a Freo perspective. Its a pity, but it would be nice if all new draftees get increased education on footskills. i doubt that you can change the experienced guys and i doubt that you can change the draftees too much as they would have learnt their kicking skills from age 5 or so.

 

[gringo2011]

I think Gresh's rushed roost around the body is his main issue that sets him back as a mid. Really hoping that that will get coached out of him this year and think it is possible with a more disciplined coaching setup and structures.

I reckon that Gresham is a gun. Probably the closest thing to a Dusty or DeGoey on our list. Injury has wrecked his last few years but when he plays he's one of our few game changers.

 

[gringo2011]

We do a heap of situational stuff.

Clock on the screen and the coaches set the scene and expectation.

I was more referring to how we practice our goal kicking now as opposed to previous years which felt more suburban football - with everyone kicking shots but not replicating even having a man on the mark.

Except for king. He always had roughy. Especially when he took his 100 shots from the goal square.

I’m sure others can support this. But the biggest takeaway from the improvement to our standards - is probably the level of education the boys get now.

Feedback immediately- sometimes it’s as small as the positioning of the guy 10m from the contest.

Other times it’s big as you would have seen from the training footage from fridays match sim. Calls an entire side in and literally educates them + challenges.

A number have already spoken about him pacing the outside of drills and then talking to boys individually.

What will disappoint people is that there hasn’t been to my knowledge a great focus on footskills. But I imagine they will weed the Clanger kings from the list at years end.

If I was to paint a picture of who we want to be.

Offensively- quick. Direct. Use of hand balls and corridor. Speed of ball is the emphasis. Chaos forward of the centre.

Defensively- pragmatic, dour. Happy to create Stoppages. Back 7 in open play. Physical. Smarter

Or do a Richmond and work with the poor foot skills to make it less of a deficiency.


I like both of those pictures. That again is very Tigers. Stingy defence, fast counter attack and chaos forward.

 

[saintmike65]

is he midfielder?, his cross the body kicking action probably not good with a game style that is based on speed and quick and accurate delivery into the forward line. Is he better as a small forward?

He should be used predominantly as a small forward with short stints on ball..maybe a 80/20 split!

 

[saintmike65]

Or do a Richmond and work with the poor foot skills to make it less of a deficiency.


I like both of those pictures. That again is very Tigers. Stingy defence, fast counter attack and chaos forward.

The foot skills were better yesterday but there’s still a few that are a bit lazy with their kicking, these include Hill, Nas & Webster, who on occasions bite off more than they can chew with their execution.
I thought Stocker used it very well on both sides yesterday, as much as I love Windhager, he has a tendency to over kick with his short passing.

 

[bergholt]

What will disappoint people is that there hasn’t been to my knowledge a great focus on footskills. But I imagine they will weed the Clanger kings from the list at years end.

RTB was very happy with CJ and Blake and Gilbo and Rob Eddy and Bakes and Raph amongst others who had poor footskills. Not sure it's core to his philosophy to have only great kicks in the side.

 

[saintmike65]

I don’t think he means 25 and under. I loved the recruitment of jones but his career suggests he he is nothing more than than an average player who can play about 2 above average games a year. I’d say butler had hit his best and it’s downhill from here. Agree on Marshall. The others are younger and I’m not sure that was his point

I think you’ll find both Jones & Butler will be different players under the boss..for one thing they’ll now be accountable!!
Both look extremely fit & hungry.

 

[longlivelenny]

I reckon that Gresham is a gun. Probably the closest thing to a Dusty or DeGoey on our list. Injury has wrecked his last few years but when he plays he's one of our few game changers.

Personally I think he's just an ok player.
He doesn't have the size to be a dusty or degoey. Doesn't have the skills to do a lot of damage.
His best asset is that he is great at getting out of congestion with side steps which can open the game up a bit. Unfortunately when he opens the game up, he then kicks it like a spaz.

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