Training 2023 Training - reports, pics etc

[macky99]

WTF... Cotterel, Boyd and Philp.
That equals 3 no? You want to split hairs over the type of foot fracture and argue my point for me that Philp is exactly the type of player whose body cant stand up to an over the top preseason - yet they gave it to him anyway?

Happy to be wrong on this but the numbers don't lie. Heads should roll as a result of this preseason program. We got it fundamentally wrong.

Seriously what a load of rubbish, Philp has been injured since day 1 he arrived at the club, Boyd has had ongoing concerns for a period of time, maybe you look a little deeper into this that rather the training workload, we have a list with 5-8 players who have question marks on their durability at this level.

I am sure the conditioning team are looking at the long term benefits which we should wait for, many people on here jumping the gun before the season has even began.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Seriously what a load of rubbish, Philp has been injured since day 1 he arrived at the club, Boyd has had ongoing concerns for a period of time, maybe you look a little deeper into this that rather the training workload, we have a list with 5-8 players who have question marks on their durability at this level.

I am sure the conditioning team are looking at the long term benefits which we should wait for, many people on here jumping the gun before the season has even began.

14 unavailable is not necessarily a sign of a well managed preseason.

So I may be overstating the issue but certainly a long way from a "load of rubbish".

 

[JJBagger]

14 unavailable is not necessarily a sign of a well managed preseason.

So I may be overstating the issue but certainly a long way from a "load of rubbish".

Just because they’re being managed, doesn’t mean they’re unavailable. The ones that were genuinely unavailable were Walsh, Marchbank, Cottrell, Cuningham, Philp, Fogarty, Williams and Boyd. The rest were managed

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Just because they’re being managed, doesn’t mean they’re unavailable. The ones that were genuinely unavailable were Walsh, Marchbank, Cottrell, Cuningham, Philp, Fogarty, Williams and Boyd. The rest were managed

I'd add Martin, Durdin and Gov to that list. Did Kemp play this week (didn't play VFL last week)? Are we sure Newman isn't injured. Cripps and McKay definitely rested but I'm not sure this was planned so probably carrying some sort of niggle. We'll see who fronts up Thursday week.

 

[macky99]

14 unavailable is not necessarily a sign of a well managed preseason.

So I may be overstating the issue but certainly a long way from a "load of rubbish".

TH are you privy to how some of our list is being managed in the lead up to the season.
It is well known we have up to 6 players who may not be there beyond this season if they cannot play consistently this season.

Again like some on here a massive overreaction before the season has even commenced.

 

[JJBagger]

I'd add Martin, Durdin and Gov to that list. Did Kemp play this week (didn't play VFL last week)? Are we sure Newman isn't injured. Cripps and McKay definitely rested but I'm not sure this was planned so probably carrying some sort of niggle. We'll see who fronts up Thursday week.

Gov’s partner gave birth on Thursday, Martin has been in full training, and Durdin is managing hamstring tightness. They all could’ve played, but the club decided it wasn’t worth it for a practice game

 

[Aphrodite]

Error page

tradablebits.com

 

[marcmurphy3]

Apparently VFL reserves play a practice game against Port Melbourne on Thursday night at Ikon Park. I wonder if any of our senior boys suit up?

 

[SurreyBlue]

Apparently VFL reserves play a practice game against Port Melbourne on Thursday night at Ikon Park. I wonder if any of our senior boys suit up?

I just don't know how they approved these lights at PP and surely the residents are kicking up a stink with all these night games PP. I guess the train station being built across the road is also not wanted........

 

[Healer]

I'd add Martin, Durdin and Gov to that list. Did Kemp play this week (didn't play VFL last week)? Are we sure Newman isn't injured. Cripps and McKay definitely rested but I'm not sure this was planned so probably carrying some sort of niggle. We'll see who fronts up Thursday week.

yea- nah.... nothing like a bit of negatively slanted rumour mongering to get a conversation going..... or not.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Gov’s partner gave birth on Thursday, Martin has been in full training, and Durdin is managing hamstring tightness. They all could’ve played, but the club decided it wasn’t worth it for a practice game

Knowing McGov's body - that was the safest and smartest thing to do.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

yea- nah.... nothing like a bit of negatively slanted rumour mongering to get a conversation going..... or not.

We have a lot of injuries prior to round 1. Not really a rumour.

 

[Gethelred]

I must admit I dont really get the lure of playing O'Brien over Cottrell, looking at last years stats they are very similar with Cottrell being better in average goals a game, tackles, contested possessions and disposal efficency. I feel as though his running capcaity would have to be very close to O'Briens but yet has a slightly harder edge. I know im going to go against the grain here but I think Cottrell is a better kick as well.

Lachie O – 17.74 disposals a game, 0.26 goals, 1.42 tackles, 3.47 contested possessions and 1.11 1%ers. Avg Disposal Efficiency 68.1

Cotts – 14.83 disps, 0.5 goals, 1.78 tackles, 4.72 contested possessions and 0.72 1%ers. Avg Disposal Efficiency 77.5

For mine when fit its his and Acres as our first options. The sad simple reality is we used a pick 10 in LOB and pick 23 in the rookie draft on Cottrell so I think people want to persist more with O'Brien

Cotts also started 3-4 games a sub. If you reduce his averages to games in which he played 4 quarters, it's around 18 possessions.

 

[Healer]

We have a lot of injuries prior to round 1. Not really a rumour.

Your speculations and queries were not rumours, true

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Your speculations and queries were not rumours, true

I think we're in agreement. Not rumours.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Cotts also started 3-4 games a sub. If you reduce his averages to games in which he played 4 quarters, it's around 18 possessions.

May wanna check the math on that.

222 possies from 14 starts is a little under 16 a game.

Going back to the stats though, cause it's a reasonable discussion to have:

Lachie O – 17.74 disposals a game, 0.26 goals, 1.42 tackles, 3.47 contested possessions and 1.11 1%ers. Avg Disposal Efficiency 68.1
Cotts – 14.83 disps, 0.5 goals, 1.78 tackles, 4.72 contested possessions and 0.72 1%ers. Avg Disposal Efficiency 77.5

Disposals - LOB slightly ahead. Not a heap in it.
Goals - Cottrell slight ahead. Difference being one goal every fourth game, maybe 5 goals for the season. Can probably chalk it up to role though, with Cotters spending some minutes as a defensive forward.
Tackles/1%ers - reckon these cancel out with each player being slightly ahead in one. Difference is minimal in either case though, one per 3 games.
Contested possessions - Cottrell slightly ahead. Unsurprising, but ultimately not a major consideration for a wing spot.
Disposal efficiency - Cottrell ahead. Bears consideration, but I think this probably comes down to role and instructions (also see kick/handball ratio below).

Think a few stats have been selectively missed though.

Marks - LOB ahead by more than one a game (5.2 vs 3.9). Despite being less gifted aerially. Indicates he makes good position a little more often and is looked for by teammates.
Kick/handball ratio - LOB well ahead (12:5 vs. 8:6). Reckon you'll find that this explains the disposal efficiency stat.
Behinds - LOB ahead. Not a good thing as such, but combined with the goals it shows LOB was actually getting more shots on goal on a per game basis despite Cottrell spending time forward. Read this as Cotters being a better finisher, but neither getting enough opportunity to make it particularly relevant.
Metres gained - LOB well ahead (364m vs 235m). Once again, explained by the kick/handball ratio.


Personally, I'd have LOB ahead of Cotters most days. But I'd also be relatively confident of Cotters giving something close to similar output if LOB missed and he had to step in. It's not a massive gulf between them, but it's enough to make the selection choice pretty clear.

 

[Gethelred]

May wanna check the math on that.

222 possies from 14 starts is a little under 16 a game.

Going back to the stats though, cause it's a reasonable discussion to have:

Lachie O – 17.74 disposals a game, 0.26 goals, 1.42 tackles, 3.47 contested possessions and 1.11 1%ers. Avg Disposal Efficiency 68.1
Cotts – 14.83 disps, 0.5 goals, 1.78 tackles, 4.72 contested possessions and 0.72 1%ers. Avg Disposal Efficiency 77.5

Disposals - LOB slightly ahead. Not a heap in it.
Goals - Cottrell slight ahead. Difference being one goal every fourth game, maybe 5 goals for the season. Can probably chalk it up to role though, with Cotters spending some minutes as a defensive forward.
Tackles/1%ers - reckon these cancel out with each player being slightly ahead in one. Difference is minimal in either case though, one per 3 games.
Contested possessions - Cottrell slightly ahead. Unsurprising, but ultimately not a major consideration for a wing spot.
Disposal efficiency - Cottrell ahead. Bears consideration, but I think this probably comes down to role and instructions (also see kick/handball ratio below).

Think a few stats have been selectively missed though.

Marks - LOB ahead by more than one a game (5.2 vs 3.9). Despite being less gifted aerially. Indicates he makes good position a little more often and is looked for by teammates.
Kick/handball ratio - LOB well ahead (12:5 vs. 8:6). Reckon you'll find that this explains the disposal efficiency stat.
Behinds - LOB ahead. Not a good thing as such, but combined with the goals it actually shows LOB was actually getting more shots on goal on a per game basis despite Cottrell spending time forward. Read this as Cotters being a better finisher, but neither getting enough opportunity to make it particularly relevant.
Metres gained - LOB well ahead (364m vs 235m). Once again, explained by the kick/handball ratio.


Personally, I'd have LOB ahead of Cotters most days. But I'd also be relatively confident of Cotters giving something close to similar output if LOB missed and he had to step in. It's not a massive gulf between them, but it's enough to make the selection choice pretty clear.

Admittedly, was remembering from when I last looked at the stats; averaged 17 disposals last season when correcting for full games.

I think it's genuinely down to form and metres gained as to who they'd pick.

 

[Healer]

14 unavailable is not necessarily a sign of a well managed preseason.

So I may be overstating the issue but certainly a long way from a "load of rubbish".

again with the overstating...... did somebody say kfc

 

[teddy-hopkins]

again with the overstating...... did somebody say kfc

So there weren't 14 unavailable for the preseason game against Sydney?

You can check this if you like:

MOCK TEAMS: Who's in your club's best 22 for round one?

Recruits, draftees, bolters ... we pick the team that's running out for your club's season-opener

www.afl.com.au

At least 9 unavailable for round 1. That's a well managed preseason in your mind. Second worst in the comp.

Geelong have 3 and half their team is over 30. We get them round 2.

I'm just comparing strategies. I know where I'd rather be. Your opinion is different- and you are entitled to it.

 

[Blue__Balls]

So there weren't 14 unavailable for the preseason game against Sydney?

You can check this if you like:

MOCK TEAMS: Who's in your club's best 22 for round one?

Recruits, draftees, bolters ... we pick the team that's running out for your club's season-opener

www.afl.com.au

At least 9 unavailable for round 1. That's a well managed preseason in your mind. Second worst in the comp.

Geelong have 3 and half their team is over 30. We get them round 2.

I'm just comparing strategies. I know where I'd rather be. Your opinion is different- and you are entitled to it.

I'd argue at this stage that it's less an issue of pre-season management and more an issue of list management.

You can only turn over so many players in a year, but at some point we're gonna need to bite the bullet and cut the blokes who are permanently rehabbing. Philp, Fogarty, Cunners and Marchy gone at year's end unless something miraculous happens.

Take out those blokes and the injury list is:

Walsh (back - on track for an early return)
Durdin (hamstring - unclear but would have to assume it's just a matter of weeks now, not months)
Boyd (foot - unlucky, mid-season return)
Cottrell (foot - unlucky, mid-season return)
Williams (ACL - unlucky, season done)

3 best 22 players out (Walsh, Durdin, Williams) but only one of them for any great length of time.
2 fringe players out (Boyd, Cottrell), both due back mid-season.

The only one there that you could genuinely fault the "pre-season intensity" for is Durdin, and by all accounts they flagged the hammy early and are playing it very safe, which if anything is a sign of a well-run preseason. Walsh is a lingering issue from last year that resulted in surgery, Boyd had his foot stepped on, not sure on the circumstances of Cottrell's injury, and ACL's are notoriously innocuous injuries that just happen to have a lengthy recovery time.

 

[LOGAN HAWK]

I'd argue at this stage that it's less an issue of pre-season management and more an issue of list management.

You can only turn over so many players in a year, but at some point we're gonna need to bite the bullet and cut the blokes who are permanently rehabbing. Philp, Fogarty, Cunners and Marchy gone at year's end unless something miraculous happens.

Take out those blokes and the injury list is:

Walsh (back - on track for an early return)
Durdin (hamstring - unclear but would have to assume it's just a matter of weeks now, not months)
Boyd (foot - unlucky, mid-season return)
Cottrell (foot - unlucky, mid-season return)
Williams (ACL - unlucky, season done)

3 best 22 players out (Walsh, Durdin, Williams) but only one of them for any great length of time.
2 fringe players out (Boyd, Cottrell), both due back mid-season.

The only one there that you could genuinely fault the "pre-season intensity" for is Durdin, and by all accounts they flagged the hammy early and are playing it very safe, which if anything is a sign of a well-run preseason. Walsh is a lingering issue from last year that resulted in surgery, Boyd had his foot stepped on, not sure on the circumstances of Cottrell's injury, and ACL's are notoriously innocuous injuries that just happen to have a lengthy recovery time.

Anyone with even half a footy brain has Cottrell ahead of O'Brien

 

[Jeremias]

Anyone with even half a footy brain has Cottrell ahead of O'Brien

LOB played more than Cottrell in 2022 so I’m quite certain that’s not correct.

 

[FRUMPY]

Anyone with even half a footy brain has Cottrell ahead of O'Brien

so many arguments for very average players who in all likelihood have already been overtaken by Acres and Hollands and will be on the scrapheap within 2 years.....

 

[Blue__Balls]

Anyone with even half a footy brain has Cottrell ahead of O'Brien

Welcome to the ignore list...

 

[Leeway]

Anyone with even half a footy brain has Cottrell ahead of O'Brien

I guess our collective coaching committee were operating with half a brain for the majority of last year. Makes me wonder how we improved at all last year...