Training 2023 Training - reports, pics etc

[teddy-hopkins]

I think at some point we need to stop with the excuses for Dow. Theres plenty of examples of top picks who dont make it.

Doesnt mean the club has dramatically stuffed up in developing him. Doesnt even mean he has dramatically stuffed up in developing himself. Maybe he just isnt that good. Completely one dimensional and that dimension isnt good enough to make up for his flaws. Simple as that.

I think most gun players become gun players regardless of their environment. Look at the environment Cripps was developed in and the player he has become. Maybe there is a universe where dow could have become solid but we will never know.

Agreed.

In Dows defence I'd say he couldn't have done much more at VFL level but sometimes the selectors look for ways to keep you out of the team rather than the opposite.

Not saying there aren't good reasons behind his continuing non selection but ultimately his form wasn't terrible and he was completely starved of chances to prove himself at AFL level.

I like the idea of him being part of the midfield group just because he is so different to the others. That burst / speed is something Kennedy, Cripps, Hewitt, etc. don't have and could complement really well.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I think at some point we need to stop with the excuses for Dow. Theres plenty of examples of top picks who dont make it.

Doesnt mean the club has dramatically stuffed up in developing him. Doesnt even mean he has dramatically stuffed up in developing himself. Maybe he just isnt that good. Completely one dimensional and that dimension isnt good enough to make up for his flaws. Simple as that.

I think most gun players become gun players regardless of their environment. Look at the environment Cripps was developed in and the player he has become. Maybe there is a universe where dow could have become solid but we will never know.

Unfortunately I think this line of thinking will only be proven right or wrong by Paddy moving to another club and us critics/supporters watching the outcome.
Same with Stocker, but I've never rated him as highly as Dow.

 

[thylacine60]

Unless Paddy goes full psycho midfielder this year.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

I thought he was 3/4 psycho last year, but was overlooked.

 

[thylacine60]

that pies game - never seen a bloke so under the microscope..........

 

[marcmurphy3]

In Dows defence I'd say he couldn't have done much more at VFL level but sometimes the selectors look for ways to keep you out of the team rather than the opposite.

Not saying there aren't good reasons behind his continuing non selection but ultimately his form wasn't terrible and he was completely starved of chances to prove himself at AFL level.

I like the idea of him being part of the midfield group just because he is so different to the others. That burst / speed is something Kennedy, Cripps, Hewitt, etc. don't have and could complement really well.

Thats true. He was not selected more based on the type of player he is rather than his performances. In addition, a lot of his flaws aren't tested as much at VFL level so it's harder for him to change the perception of him.

 

[katmanblue]

He kills 'em at VFL level amongst all the extra congestion. Finding and making space is Dow's specialty, it seems his defensive work is limiting his chances at Carlton.
If the Saints or another give him a decent crack, he'll prosper.

Finding space in congestion isn’t the issue. His problem is when he doesn’t haven’t have the ball. You know, the other 95% of the game.

Only way he prospers at another club is if he’s #1 or #2 midfielder. There’s no way he gets that opportunity with Carlton.

 

[katmanblue]

I think the days of trying to make Dow someone he’s not (gut runner) are over.

He’s a stoppage / burst player. Never will be a hard two way runner. The thing is, he doesn’t have to be. We should be playing to his strengths. If it means he can only manage 75mins then so be it.

Refer to how the Dogs use Treloar as an example. He’s surrounded by gut runners which allows Adam to play to his strengths at clearances.

At times Paddy’s shown he can be brilliantly effective at stoppage and clearances. Let him rip at this and this only.

If he can’t impact when given this license than it’s over for Paddy.

What do you do with the other Paddy? The one with the Brownlow.

 

[btdg]

I think at some point we need to stop with the excuses for Dow. Theres plenty of examples of top picks who dont make it.

Doesnt mean the club has dramatically stuffed up in developing him. Doesnt even mean he has dramatically stuffed up in developing himself. Maybe he just isnt that good. Completely one dimensional and that dimension isnt good enough to make up for his flaws. Simple as that.

I think most gun players become gun players regardless of their environment. Look at the environment Cripps was developed in and the player he has become. Maybe there is a universe where dow could have become solid but we will never know.

I agree overall with the sentiments, but I also think we played a big role in Dow's issues. Even looking at his stats you can see it:
2018 (age 18) = 14.2 disposals, 0.7 shots on goal, 3.2 tackles per game in 20 matches
2019 (age 19) under Bolton = 17.5 disposals, 0.9 shots on goal, 2.9 tackles per game in 11 matches
2019 under Teague (shifted forward) = 9.9 disposals, 0.9 shots on goal, 2.7 tackles per game in 8 matches
2020 (age 20, bubble year) = played only 3 matches for 9 disposals, 0.33 shots on goal, 1 tackle per game
2021 (age 21) = 15 disposals, 0.3 shots on goal, 2.4 tackles in 16 matches
2022 (age 22) = 17 disposals, 0.5 shots on goal, 3 tackles in 2 matches

He basically started ok, improved, then when Teague came in and shuffled everything around he completely dropped off and fell away. The 2020 season was then the worst possible thing (isolated in the bubble, not playing, but also not training). The latter part of that isn't our fault, just the worst possible timing for Dow (and all our young midfielders TBH - SPS, O'Brien, Kennedy all got screwed by the bubble)

2021 - it was like he was starting from scratch again, and he put up stats similar to his rookie year, then in 2022 put up stats similar to his second season. Only now he's been in the league 5 years and running out of chances.

My long held belief is that you can only be a long-term AFL player if you either a) get lots of disposals, b) have a major scoreboard impact, or c) have elite disposal. C) is never going to happen for Paddy, he has shown nothing as a forward, which leaves a). He has to get up to 25+ touches per game minimum as a midfielder or he simply isn't doing enough. And the problem is he hasn't hit 25 disposals ever in 63 AFL games (as a comparison, Cerra had worse averages than Dow in year 1 and early year 2, but hit 25 touches 4x in his first 3 years, and did so 9x last year alone).

 

[Stefchook]

He can't play forward. Has no idea about spacing, leading patterns etc. Just generally where to be when. This come from one of the senior forwards who told me they have to keep directing him constantly, making it harder for them to perform personally.

I have no doubt this is true. I just think he's decent overhead, and he's quick. If he could be somehow reprogrammed into a Brad Pearce uber quick leading forward, maybe he's a chance. His lack of engine has me doubting he'll ever make it in midfield. And it has been done on occasions with clearance players. Bulldogs did it with Clay Smith and Mitch Wallis. Looks like they might succeed also with Rhylee West.

 

[Nugget 83]

Hey folks. Are all training sessions open? I'd like to come down and take some photos if possible.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Hey folks. Are all training sessions open? I'd like to come down and take some photos if possible.

Generally the club will announce if there is an open session. Has been one every week or so this preseason. They are on the sunshine coast this week but imagine more will be announced soon.

 

[Chookaradley]

Would Dow still be on the list if he was Pick 30 instead if Pick 3??.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Would Dow still be on the list if he was Pick 30 instead if Pick 3??.

Probably not though his burst out of traffic may have been enough of a point of difference to get him a few extra years.

Cunners was pick 23 and has survived 8 years despite achieving arguably less then dow. His explosiveness is probably the reason why.

 

[Arr0w]

Would Dow still be on the list if he was Pick 30 instead if Pick 3??.

Yes, but how he is viewed by most supporters would be different and it shouldn't. I suspect, by the end of this year, Dow will likely depart, unless there is a dramatic change

I will share my thoughts on each player regarding the last open session, but this is how I viewed Dow on the day

While he had a few touches in the match sim, the majority were ineffective. His disposal by foot was poor and generally contrived, not natural, let's call it manufactured

On a couple of occasions he had a the opportunity to release by hand to a teammate on his right, essentially running beside him.

Normally you would dispose the ball with a left hand handball, instead, Paddy stifled ball movement by twisting his body to release it with his right hand, which was too telegraphed, again not natural

When running defensively, he lagged behind all opposition mids, and never made up ground to cover an opponent

Stated a while back, that it seems the club is endeavouring to conjure a precise, manufactured footballer, which doesn't play to his strengths and further exposes his weaknesses

Unfortunately for Dow, the modern game requires team oriented zones, gameplans and tactics, even from highly talented xfactor types. So it's difficult to allow one player of his ilk to just hunt the footy

He can't play on a wing due to his poor tank, this also hampers him playing as a receiving mid, it's also why he isn't involved in multiple chains during attacking movements and doesn't have the footy IQ to play as a forward.

The only way Paddy survives at Carlton, is by playing as the number 1 extractor and to just let him hunt the pill, but he will never displace any of our starting 4-5 midfield options and would struggle to do the same at any other club

 

[Blue1980]

If Dow stays the same or regresses no other club will want him. If he improves he’ll be best 22 and want to hang around.

This year was his chance to leave. Carlton or bust for Paddy imo

No one wanted him last trade period, so that says something.

As others have said, he’s too one dimensional and we have better options than him in the role he could do.

 

[Blue1980]

I think at some point we need to stop with the excuses for Dow. Theres plenty of examples of top picks who dont make it.

Doesnt mean the club has dramatically stuffed up in developing him. Doesnt even mean he has dramatically stuffed up in developing himself. Maybe he just isnt that good. Completely one dimensional and that dimension isnt good enough to make up for his flaws. Simple as that.

I think most gun players become gun players regardless of their environment. Look at the environment Cripps was developed in and the player he has become. Maybe there is a universe where dow could have become solid but we will never know.

Exactly, he isn’t the first or last high pick to not develop.

 

[Blue1980]

Would Dow still be on the list if he was Pick 30 instead if Pick 3??.

No

 

[thylacine60]

No imo.

 

[Blue Flame]

No Chooka

Responding to Chooka, not Imogen as far as I can see thy.

 

[BrownDog20]

Probably not though his burst out of traffic may have been enough of a point of difference to get him a few extra years.

Cunners was pick 23 and has survived 8 years despite achieving arguably less then dow. His explosiveness is probably the reason why.

Completely different situations, Cunners injuries have held him back and has been best 22 when not injured. Dow is not in our best 22.

 

[Coona Blues]

No one wanted him last trade period, so that says something.

As others have said, he’s too one dimensional and we have better options than him in the role he could do.

Not sure no one wanted him. More accurate would be no one wanted him at the price. Depending on who we listen to he is on $4-500k thanks to our zealous former CEO.

May survive when some reality enters the equation.

 

[Coona Blues]

On a different note, old Coona is sitting in car overlooking Maroochydore oval. Drove almost 4 hours on spec for a likely am training session. Got a bit excited when staff started pulling out post padding etc. Total confusion when Ben King and a car load of Suns got out. Currently seven only Suns players doing some light interval running. King, Touk, pretty sure Anderson(his partner in crime not there) think it is Weller in the blue, assume non contact vest.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

On a different note, old Coona is sitting in car overlooking Maroochydore oval. Drove almost 4 hours on spec for a likely am training session. Got a bit excited when staff started pulling out post padding etc. Total confusion when Ben King and a car load of Suns got out. Currently seven only Suns players doing some light interval running. King, Touk, pretty sure Anderson(his partner in crime not there) think it is Weller in the blue, assure non contact vest.

Looking forward to another detailed training report.
It's a pretty hot day again, not expecting too much intensity.

 

[Coona Blues]

Looking forward to another detailed training report.
It's a pretty hot day again, not expecting too much intensity.

Another big bloke with the 7. Probably Witts, although King as tall. Thinking leadership group. Plenty of other lads rolling in now, some by foot. Not going to be any Blues here for a while, if at all today. Que sera sera.