Autopsy 2024 Elimination Final Blues blown away in first half. Never looked likely.

[BlueTongue]

This is a problem with such a poor seconds side. Playing in weak teams doenst help the case for individuals to push for selection.

Young has been more than serviceable these past few weeks, but was big average in the VFL. It actually makes selection hard

This is exactly the same thought I had about Moir. Hard to perform as a forward when the delivery is rubbish. He gets picked, instantly gets better service from the midfield, and takes his limited chances.

 

[Opium]

42 tackles for the game. Lowest pressure rating first half out of all the finalists. That's simply not good enough. That is on the players I'm afraid. Selections clearly didn't work as they weren't able to adjust to the finals tempo.

 

[YamandU]

and the most important point, our love for media attention had us pick an incredibly underdone Doc ahead of someone like Binns. It’s by no fault of Doc, he’s a legend, but hindsight hasn’t been favourable.

Can’t agree with this part. Docherty is senior enough to know he’s not ready. Team before yourself. Putting his hand up to play a final was selfish. Set himself a goal after he did his knee to play again this season and put his goal ahead of what was best for the team.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

42 tackles for the game. Lowest pressure rating first half out of all the finalists. That's simply not good enough. That is on the players I'm afraid. Selections clearly didn't work as they weren't able to adjust to the finals tempo.

We were also very fumbly in the first half - side looked nervous and intimidated.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

I still don't believe it was the difference

The Saints play a completely different brand of footy, one that suits our style and make up better

The Lions play more of a, win and to the outside as quickly as possible

Then you have the Eagles who are just a poor side

IMHO, the focus for Voss now, is who is fully committed to buy in, otherwise he and the club need to make tough calls

The saints were one of the best teams in scoring from defensive 50 and transition. This is our weakness. St Kilda is an awful match up for us. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

The sad reality, is that the lions aren’t that great. We were flogged by them.

 

[BlueTongue]

Nah, give me a normal injury list or by some miracle a better than normal injury list and this group has enough talent to be right at the pointy end.

The MC made some diabolical decisions on players that were not fit enough or had the form or touch required in a cut throat final, they need to stop worrying about the names on the magnets and start rewarding form and fitness.

If you’re returning from a long layoff it should be mandatory you find form and fitness in the twos, training blocks just does not imitate real world football in the slightest. Playing reserves helps to build your body up to the rigours of the game and also helps to make your feeder team more competitive which only helps the younger players reach their potential


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I think Lloyd has to go. When he was interviewed during the Hawthorn game and announced in an unphased matter of fact way that Charlie had been playing on a bad ankle for weeks, I near fell out of my chair.

Not like you need to get your best players right for finals or anything.

Surprise, surprise, he didn’t come up in time.

 

[Accidental genius]

Can’t agree with this part. Docherty is senior enough to know he’s not ready. Team before yourself. Putting his hand up to play a final was selfish. Set himself a goal after he did his knee to play again this season and put his goal ahead of what was best for the team.

Not that I think it had too much bearing on the game result but watching Doc with ball in hand when twisting and turning....

he was definitely doing wider turns...which made me think he is not 100% confident in his mind...which is totally fine but why put your hand up to play in the first place??

 

[BlueVision]

Lucky we dropped the kids like Lord, Moir & Binns so we could play a heap of underdone, out of form players & save being embarrassed

 

[Just Kreuzing]

I think Lloyd has to go. When he was interviewed during the Hawthorn game and announced in an unphased matter of fact way that Charlie had been playing on a bad ankle for weeks, I near fell out of my chair.

Not like you need to get your best players right for finals or anything.

Surprise, surprise, he didn’t come up in time.

The decision to play Charlie vs Hawthorn was mind boggling, should of had a weeks rest in hope he could play his part in the last 2 rounds to secure our finals spot.

Beating Hawthorn at the time was not imperative.

 

[The Dog]

Carlton tackles..
0 Tackles - Four
1 Tackle - Nine
2 Tackles - Three
3 Tackles - Three
4 Tackles - Two
5 Tackles - Two

Another perspective:

Four top Brisbane players - 26 tackles combined.

20 Carlton Players - 28 tackles combined.

20 Carlton players out tackled four Brisbane players by two tackles. That genuinely makes me feel sick.

Durdin & Motlop - absolutely not.

Cerra - we should have kept Carrol in.

TDK sub - no

Kennedy being subbed off after 1.5 quarters despite having an impact 36 hours after leaving his newborn and wife. Culture destroyer. This is Adelaide level of destroying team fabric.

I saw a group of the boys out on Lygon St for dinner on Father’s Day and after tonight’s performance and team selections I think the issue is actually culture. Voss has lost a group or two of the players

Exactly my thoughts re Kennedy and the impact that would have. Ultimately his decision to leave wife/bub and play, but jeez you’d have to have rocks in your head to then sit him on the pine for the majority of the game.

Putting aside the fact there were 6+ players you’d sub out before Kennedy, I find it incredibly difficult to fathom how this would not cross their mind when making the call.

Culture killer that will bubble away all summer.


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[TENACIOUS]

It would be great if these players got fair dinkum. They pretend to be serious. Look at the condition some of these guys turn up in. Williams. McGovern. They’re just not fair dinkum.

I would say this group needs to be turned over and just start again.

When you lose so often when it matters….you become a loser. We have too many losers.

Let’s be real. Everyone knew McKay would miss that goal before half time didn’t they? Where’s your brain mate?

We are so slow. They act like they fix speed with recruiting endurance runners.

Do something club. Do something.

Have an honest conversation. With the slow players. The injured ones. The recruiters. The coaches.

Make some ****ing changes.

The game plan, is the main driver that makes us slow..

Hawks don’t have a lot of leg speed in the midfield, they spread from the contest like no other and use their elite ball users (most of their side)

 

[Earls Smother]

To be fair we looked better around the ball when he was off - whether he should of been a permanent fwd is another question -

Voss has continually made one of Kennedy or Hewett sub when we have our full midfield available.

Hewett has finished the season well, so he was always playing in the 22. History would have suggested that if TDK started, MK would have been sub.

I'm not saying it's right, but all Voss did was swap the order around.

 

[myblueroan]

When the ball is bombed long to talls all the time and the opposition get numbers back to same spot and clog space it’s hard

Almost impossible to judge players when game plan/effort is so bad

I'm glad you see it that way Soapy.

 

[Soapy V]

Disagree

Look at Geelong. They looked like a midfield of Usain Bolts.

Its the ball movement and tactics that make our team look slow.

Look at our kick ins from the backline. 99% of the time we just take it to the wing and kick to a pack.

100% Agree

Look at Hawks midfield. It’s not that quick. Newcombe MacKenzie Day Worpel Nash etc aren’t quick. However, the way they play is quick and full of run in numbers

 

[Soapy V]

42 tackles for the game. Lowest pressure rating first half out of all the finalists. That's simply not good enough. That is on the players I'm afraid. Selections clearly didn't work as they weren't able to adjust to the finals tempo.

IMO selection was final straw. Picking so many doubtful players for a final that weren’t ready made the task impossible

Docherty should NEVER have been selected
TDK as good as he is, you don’t manage minutes in a final
Williams didn’t look ready
Acres shoulder is done
Cerra hasn’t been right all year
Durdins shoulder is cooked
McGovern couldn’t stretch out

Voss said over last 2 games he was impressed with effort and composure of younger players. Then he dropped them for players that weren’t ready

Playing unfit players in finals NEVER works

 

[Opium]

Not that I think it had too much bearing on the game result but watching Doc with ball in hand when twisting and turning....

he was definitely doing wider turns...which made me think he is not 100% confident in his mind...which is totally fine but why put your hand up to play in the first place??

As much as I love Doc I thought him putting his hand up to play was selfish. The MC needed to say to Doc we're taking in players who are able to play and apply pressure for 120 min. Lord should never have been dropped for his performance against the Saints and he would of got valuable finals experience to build on.

 

[ajb72]

Whoever made TDK the sub should be shot out of a cannon.
If he can’t play a full game either don’t play him, or start with him and play a runner as sub for when he is done.


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[skadoosh]

1. We are so poorly coached. What are our players first instincts? Long bomb.

2. Long bomb from D50 to the wing. Long bomb from wing into F50. It's instinctual for majority of our players.

3. Doesn't help that we have 0 composure when under pressure.

4. Did I mention we love a long bomb so much that our players actually find it difficult to chain handballs to move the ball up the field while other teams do this in their sleep?

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Our inability to exit the back half was our biggest fault all year

We lack marking targets outside of TDK, McKay and Curnow (and Curnow is not that tall, really)

JSOS would help, Lemmey would be better if he was ready.. Playing two rucks hamstrings us when Pitto isn’t a great marking option.

 

[T2B_]

Took us 57 minutes to score last night

Bush league stuff innit

 

[Soapy V]

As much as I love Doc I thought him putting his hand up to play was selfish. The MC needed to say to Doc we're taking in players who are able to play and apply pressure for 120 min. Lord should never have been dropped for his performance against the Saints and he would of got valuable finals experience to build on.

IMO players will always want to play. This is on the MC. They should have said NO. It’s that simple.

Lucky he didn’t hurt himself

Doc last night was off the pace, didn’t have leg strength and was a passenger. So much for bringing us more energy

It was sad for him and us

 

[Arr0w]

Arrow, I’m curious. How do you assess Carlton’s rebuild compared with Brisbane’s now, after a sufficient time period?

I believe the Lions have a better list balance. The likes of Lohmann, Morris, Rayner are better impact types

The saints were one of the best teams in scoring from defensive 50 and transition. This is our weakness. St Kilda is an awful match up for us. Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Saints want the game on the outside too, but their mid setup up is similar to ours, contested types trying to be spread types

The sad reality, is that the lions aren’t that great. We were flogged by them.

If the Lions, or any side get it on their terms, they are strong enough to beat good sides

But, suspect they will struggle against GWS

 

[Gethelred]

Can’t agree with this part. Docherty is senior enough to know he’s not ready. Team before yourself. Putting his hand up to play a final was selfish. Set himself a goal after he did his knee to play again this season and put his goal ahead of what was best for the team.

As much as I love Doc I thought him putting his hand up to play was selfish. The MC needed to say to Doc we're taking in players who are able to play and apply pressure for 120 min. Lord should never have been dropped for his performance against the Saints and he would of got valuable finals experience to build on.

Again: Docherty does not select himself. It might surprise you to know he doesn't play any role in selection, because - you know - he's not on the match committee.

Reconsider whether you want to call Sam Docherty selfish on this forum a third time.

 

[myblueroan]

IMO players will always want to play. This is on the MC. They should have said NO. It’s that simple.

Lucky he didn’t hurt himself

Doc last night and as off the pace, didn’t have leg strength and was a passenger. So much for bringing us more energy

It was sad for him and us

Love Doc to bits as we all do.
But yes.

 

[Soapy V]

Again: Docherty does not select himself. It might surprise you to know he doesn't play any role in selection, because - you know - he's not on the match committee.

Reconsider whether you want to call Sam Docherty selfish on this forum a third time.

A player will always want to play. Especially competitive types like Doc. I don’t blame him at all