- Dec 8, 2007
- 4,521
- 8,346
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Chicago Bulls
It's done. We can't change it, so we move on
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Autopsy 2024 Elimination Final Blues blown away in first half. Never looked likely.
- Thread starter The Old Dark Navy's
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Ever seen Ross Lyon down 60-0 in a final? Wouldnt happen
Woke up this morning pissed off and not because we lost. I went into the game optimistic but knew we were unlikely to win.
I’m pissed off because we are a long way off in terms of having elite standards, integrity and processes that foster success and culture.
If we had such standards then our selection would have been completely different, in both last night’s game and during the year. Players would have been chosen on merit and their ability to execute finals football for 120 mins.
I’m not against taking a bit of a gamble but that needs to be measured and controlled. Bringing 6 underdone players with limited preparation into a final - in my opinion - is amateurish. We were basically guessing…elite organisations and processes do not rely on guesswork. Makes planning really difficult.
I understand the nice story behind Doc retuning but how confident were we that his output would outdo that of Binns. In no circumstance should he have played. If we had even basic standards, then no player after 5 months out of the game would come straight back into the 1s without at least 180 mins of actual match practice. Don’t care if it was Cripps or Charlie or Weiters…same rule applies. It’s called standards.
Same applies to Motlop and all our small forwards…if you won’t bring pressure and do all the hard unselfish efforts, then you don’t play. Simple.
As such my biggest concerns is this is an ongoing problem and I’m not sure how we turn this around without really tough questions being asked and desire to make change. We’re a mile off being an elite organisation.
Rant over.
I’m pissed off because we are a long way off in terms of having elite standards, integrity and processes that foster success and culture.
If we had such standards then our selection would have been completely different, in both last night’s game and during the year. Players would have been chosen on merit and their ability to execute finals football for 120 mins.
I’m not against taking a bit of a gamble but that needs to be measured and controlled. Bringing 6 underdone players with limited preparation into a final - in my opinion - is amateurish. We were basically guessing…elite organisations and processes do not rely on guesswork. Makes planning really difficult.
I understand the nice story behind Doc retuning but how confident were we that his output would outdo that of Binns. In no circumstance should he have played. If we had even basic standards, then no player after 5 months out of the game would come straight back into the 1s without at least 180 mins of actual match practice. Don’t care if it was Cripps or Charlie or Weiters…same rule applies. It’s called standards.
Same applies to Motlop and all our small forwards…if you won’t bring pressure and do all the hard unselfish efforts, then you don’t play. Simple.
As such my biggest concerns is this is an ongoing problem and I’m not sure how we turn this around without really tough questions being asked and desire to make change. We’re a mile off being an elite organisation.
Rant over.
Seen him win a flag? He MAY be better but would he change our culture, game style and lead us to a flag? I highly doubt it
- Nov 29, 2018
- 1,666
- 6,016
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Says a lot doesn’t it.
Maybe but just think it is a consideration when they target recruits also and their culture has that expectation as well.
All the coaches you mentioned spend time down on the sidelines!! Every other professional football code's coach/manager is on the sidelines!!!
Andypooh23
Team Captain
After a night to digest in a Brisbane hotel that was just so, so disappointing.
The effort and intensity was just not up to scratch when the game was on the line.
I’m glad they didn’t completely throw the towel in but what a waste to truly never be in the game in a knockout final.
The selections have certainly a massive spotlight on Voss and co. to start 2025.
I haven’t been as critical as others but with the selections earlier in the year but this week’s were truly baffling.
Starting TDK as sub… if he is cleared fit he starts, far too important for us to be sitting at the first bounce. Sub him off later if he runs out of gas.
Cerra and Doc came off too long a break if we’re already running with an underdone TDK.
Subbing Kennedy off was utterly ridiculous.
The first half looked like an early preseason game where one side is further along than the other.
We need a rethink of our forward structure and personnel. Motlop, Durdin and Fantasia are playing for their careers next year. I’ll be in the minority here but I’m not big fan of Owies either.
We need a good trade/draft period, some shuffling in the coaches box and let’s hope the new fitness boss is worth his salt.
I still believe in this list with some tweaks and fixes but Voss is on his last chance next year.
See y’all in trade week
The effort and intensity was just not up to scratch when the game was on the line.
I’m glad they didn’t completely throw the towel in but what a waste to truly never be in the game in a knockout final.
The selections have certainly a massive spotlight on Voss and co. to start 2025.
I haven’t been as critical as others but with the selections earlier in the year but this week’s were truly baffling.
Starting TDK as sub… if he is cleared fit he starts, far too important for us to be sitting at the first bounce. Sub him off later if he runs out of gas.
Cerra and Doc came off too long a break if we’re already running with an underdone TDK.
Subbing Kennedy off was utterly ridiculous.
The first half looked like an early preseason game where one side is further along than the other.
We need a rethink of our forward structure and personnel. Motlop, Durdin and Fantasia are playing for their careers next year. I’ll be in the minority here but I’m not big fan of Owies either.
We need a good trade/draft period, some shuffling in the coaches box and let’s hope the new fitness boss is worth his salt.
I still believe in this list with some tweaks and fixes but Voss is on his last chance next year.
See y’all in trade week
Insipid is the only way I can describe the first quarter and half.
Not only was there no intent, the execution of all basic skills was deplorable.
Combine those 2 and you get a soul destroying, embarrassing performance.
Really think we need to be as ruthless in the off season as we have ever been, to re-shape our list, our football department and game style.
Not only was there no intent, the execution of all basic skills was deplorable.
Combine those 2 and you get a soul destroying, embarrassing performance.
Really think we need to be as ruthless in the off season as we have ever been, to re-shape our list, our football department and game style.
- Oct 4, 2015
- 13,161
- 24,771
- AFL Club
- Carlton
It's how we move on that matters though...
People talk about lack of leg speed... would that have made a difference last night?
Lack of another KPD... Young actually did his job quite well last night... so that wasn't the problem...
Lack of small forwards... again, prime Eddie Betts wouldn't have made a difference...
If by some miracle we could make all these list changes, tidy up all these areas with high quality talent in this off season, where would that actually take this group?
Because the way I see it, they're a pack of pea hearted wimps. The only reason we didn't get done by 100+ was because the Lions put the cue in the rack once the score read SIXTY - ZERO... don't believe me? Go take a look at their pressure rating in the second half... it plummeted and that's the only reason we were able to peg the score back.
When the club blows sunshine up your arse with all this "Doc is a huge inspiration", "We're fired up", "Get down there and support us" and then dish that up, there's something fundamentally wrong at the core. The coach and players have been groomed to sell hope because they know our supporter base will lap it all up every single time...
But it's clear to all that they don't really believe in the message they're sending...
We need some serious changes or we'll be finding ourselves going through another rebuild in a couple of years without a flag to show for it.
dirty night had by lots
the dicey ins for the most part did what we expected. cerra almost ok-ish. docherty not much influence, disposal picked up where it left off, ie some real hairy moments. mcgovern dropping a few he should take as usual in between some silky moments. mckay competed hard but suffers for the long bombs or sluggishness up the ground. williams had one he'll want to forget. tdk that bit of spark. half of those have essentially made up the numbers.
didn't see the best of durdin of the last couple of weeks, or the motlop of last year. many of who we select as small forwards don't impact the game up the ground (think durdin against wc) or get on the end of anything in the forward line.
when they were amongst it up the ground, brisbane players were already on their hammer and they coughed it up, motlop especially badly.
with motlop out of form fantasia seems to have the most craft. owies is more workmanlike than brilliant, but that's fine. someone's gotta kick em somehow.
durdin's career will come to a screaming halt if he's being turned into a small forward. can he please train in the midfield group as a player with pace who showed, even though it was against west coast, what he could do? or do him a favour and move him on.
we have real issues getting it past intercept defenders on the wing, we still kick it their way though. we held firm to our gameplan which can seem to favour one too many dicey handballs over mongrels along the ground for territory which i was hoping to see more of in a high pressure final. lots of handball receives with someone on their tail already.
often we have many players tracking the ball handler. the free players behind them eventually receive the ball.
the team reminds me of my junior cricket days. the top 4 batsmen were also the opening bowlers, first change and wicketkeeper. we've got players we need to do everything and others are there because we need to pick 18 on the ground. durdin is a small forward because he's fast and shaped like a small forward. cripps is midfield king, has to do ruck and we need him to drift forward and kick goals too.
do some of our players like motlop, durdin, fantasia not get involved because they're asked to be opportunistic, or we actively avoid giving them possession? player or coach. or they're unable to get into ball-winning position, or not good enough to get the ball.
filthy night for kemp. will probably benefit from a preseason of forward training if that's where he's playing 2025.
he's going to outpace most defenders who can outmark him, is the sort of player that could be leading up to receive the switch kick between midfield possession and forward set up, and get creative with it if he can.
young played the sort of game we hoped he had in him, might give him the confidence he needs. room for improvement still but flaky hipwood a good matchup.
lots of things have gone wrong at the pointy end, and all departments in the footy club have had some hand in that.
if i had to end on a positive note, i'd have to say it's hard to envisage us being so out of form and injured again in 2025 but that's hopeful thinking.
the dicey ins for the most part did what we expected. cerra almost ok-ish. docherty not much influence, disposal picked up where it left off, ie some real hairy moments. mcgovern dropping a few he should take as usual in between some silky moments. mckay competed hard but suffers for the long bombs or sluggishness up the ground. williams had one he'll want to forget. tdk that bit of spark. half of those have essentially made up the numbers.
didn't see the best of durdin of the last couple of weeks, or the motlop of last year. many of who we select as small forwards don't impact the game up the ground (think durdin against wc) or get on the end of anything in the forward line.
when they were amongst it up the ground, brisbane players were already on their hammer and they coughed it up, motlop especially badly.
with motlop out of form fantasia seems to have the most craft. owies is more workmanlike than brilliant, but that's fine. someone's gotta kick em somehow.
durdin's career will come to a screaming halt if he's being turned into a small forward. can he please train in the midfield group as a player with pace who showed, even though it was against west coast, what he could do? or do him a favour and move him on.
we have real issues getting it past intercept defenders on the wing, we still kick it their way though. we held firm to our gameplan which can seem to favour one too many dicey handballs over mongrels along the ground for territory which i was hoping to see more of in a high pressure final. lots of handball receives with someone on their tail already.
often we have many players tracking the ball handler. the free players behind them eventually receive the ball.
the team reminds me of my junior cricket days. the top 4 batsmen were also the opening bowlers, first change and wicketkeeper. we've got players we need to do everything and others are there because we need to pick 18 on the ground. durdin is a small forward because he's fast and shaped like a small forward. cripps is midfield king, has to do ruck and we need him to drift forward and kick goals too.
do some of our players like motlop, durdin, fantasia not get involved because they're asked to be opportunistic, or we actively avoid giving them possession? player or coach. or they're unable to get into ball-winning position, or not good enough to get the ball.
filthy night for kemp. will probably benefit from a preseason of forward training if that's where he's playing 2025.
he's going to outpace most defenders who can outmark him, is the sort of player that could be leading up to receive the switch kick between midfield possession and forward set up, and get creative with it if he can.
young played the sort of game we hoped he had in him, might give him the confidence he needs. room for improvement still but flaky hipwood a good matchup.
lots of things have gone wrong at the pointy end, and all departments in the footy club have had some hand in that.
if i had to end on a positive note, i'd have to say it's hard to envisage us being so out of form and injured again in 2025 but that's hopeful thinking.
You look at the teams that are left none of them have 2 ‘power’ forwards,it’s the smalls that the modern game has evolved into.
Hawks/Cats especially.
Swans main forwards hardly score.
Giants have Hogan surrounded by quality smalls whilst lions have Joe and the same.
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Hawks/Cats especially.
Swans main forwards hardly score.
Giants have Hogan surrounded by quality smalls whilst lions have Joe and the same.
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
gab213
Premium Platinum
- Aug 29, 2013
- 8,815
- 38,080
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Ophidian Old Boys SFA
I think that the word we are looking for is cohesion rather than continuity and i wouldn't even look at that in terms of individuals, its things like building a line such as our back 6 which plays together almost week in week out, eventually they come to know what to expect each time somebody gets the ball. Look at what happened this year and there were players ,in and out due to injuries. We rarely had anything close to what we could consider our best 22 available.
I know people keep mentioning the 'next man up' mantra , that's ok when you're missing 3-4 players, doesn't really work when at times missing 10-12.
I'm not saying that this is the only issue we have but it's a huge one.
Last edited:
I blame the away room air conditioning.
gab213
Premium Platinum
- Aug 29, 2013
- 8,815
- 38,080
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Ophidian Old Boys SFA
No, it'd be more like 60-40 at full time
Never seen Ross lift a premiership cup either, glad we didn't get him.
gab213
Premium Platinum
- Aug 29, 2013
- 8,815
- 38,080
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Ophidian Old Boys SFA
I wanted Brad Scott when Bolton was sacked, wasn't a popular opinion but I think he's a good coach and over achieved at North with the rubbish list and resources he had.
2024 at a glance.
Positives:
1.Got to see a couple of kids late
2.Cripps and TDK year
Negatives:
1.Injuries
2.Poor match committee
3.Poor coaching
4.Outdated game plan
5.Players regressed
2025 needs:
1.Speed
2.Small forwards
3.Fresh renewed game plan
4.Better coaching group
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Positives:
1.Got to see a couple of kids late
2.Cripps and TDK year
Negatives:
1.Injuries
2.Poor match committee
3.Poor coaching
4.Outdated game plan
5.Players regressed
2025 needs:
1.Speed
2.Small forwards
3.Fresh renewed game plan
4.Better coaching group
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
You know people are just belching out their pain when pining for Ross Lyon 
.
The worst of football ever and they nearly lost to our team with half of our talent out and playing their grand final, so hardly travelling well.
As for us we need to take stock, incrementally improve the list with astute trades and picks and set up a healthy squad.
We have some finals experience now and despite a very inconsistent season we saw some diversity in the way we could win and play without solely relying on contested ball dominance.
Let’s not kid ourselves, the health of the list is absolutely the core of consistent, winning football.
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
.The worst of football ever and they nearly lost to our team with half of our talent out and playing their grand final, so hardly travelling well.
As for us we need to take stock, incrementally improve the list with astute trades and picks and set up a healthy squad.
We have some finals experience now and despite a very inconsistent season we saw some diversity in the way we could win and play without solely relying on contested ball dominance.
Let’s not kid ourselves, the health of the list is absolutely the core of consistent, winning football.
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
RPCB
Community Leader
- Moderator
- #720
Sadly after I had watched the first 2 minutes of the game last night, I knew it just didn’t look right. We looked lethargic already and second to the ball for the first few passages of play of the game. I was expecting Brisbane to jump us.
It’s going to be so disappointing if Austin has another trade/FA period where he is only adding one player. If that happens, nothing will be different next year.
It’s going to be so disappointing if Austin has another trade/FA period where he is only adding one player. If that happens, nothing will be different next year.
Bletch
Premium Platinum
- Dec 8, 2020
- 3,785
- 12,001
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Swans: McDonald/Amartey/McLean
Cats: Cameron/Neale
Bris: Daniher/Hipwood
GWS: Hogan/Cadman/Keeffe
Haw: Chol/Dear/Gunston
Port: Dixon/Georgiades/Ratugolea
My point is that the preparation by the coaches (with selection being a massive part of our preparation this week) filters down to the playing group, and effects their mentality.
The coaches prepared very poorly for last night’s game. I think that is a huge factor in the players not being switched on for a final.
Great guns though Vossy.
- Oct 11, 2019
- 1,624
- 4,870
- AFL Club
- Carlton
I think most of us on here were worried about the Doc inclusion. Perhaps if he had have been made sub, then it would have
been more understandable. MC deserve criticism and imo have done a pretty poor job this year.
Similar threads
- Locked
