Position 2024 Fantasy Rucks

[Phar Ace]

Round 0 sees the clash of "MATES"...... well former team mates at least GRUNDY vs GAWN. The massive plan of tag teaming Grundy with Gawn was a much heralded fail.

From a Fantasy perspective, we don't care how much Collingwood was paying of Grundy's salary, or even if any of that goes to Sydney now. We just want a durable ruck who can give a viable alternative to English or Marshall at a fraction of the cost. We are bargain hunting here! So we look first at last season:



Then Grundy's output the season before (2022):


And for good measure, the season before that (2021):


It's not a particularly deep dive. Impacts the big Cox and Darcy Cameron

14

Darcy Cameron

Age

29

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

3.5

5star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.7

3star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

has had on his output could be looked at as well, but I doubt it will have a material effect on the following question:

If you are considering Brodie Grundy

4

Brodie Grundy

Age

30

Ht

202cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

HO

32.0

5star

D

16.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

9.6

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

34.6

5star

D

13.8

4star

K

5.2

2star

HB

8.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

20.6

5star

for your Fantasy side, what do you need to see from him in the Mates Showdown in Sydney between Grundy and Gawn on Thursday March 7th?

 

[Catastrophe!]

Geez the whole Gawn v English thing is tough. If Gawn gets 80%+ CBA’s I think he can return to a 105 average which is 10-12 points unders

But English is 115-120 and a walk up C

Not if that interview with Lobb is anything to go on...

Sounds pretty convinced that Bevo is going to give him more ruck time as it worked well in R24 against us.

We'll end up with a Cameron/Cox, Gawn/Grundy, Nank/Soldo, Xerri/Goldstein, Stanley/Blicavs situation.

If English goes at an average of 98, he'll drop 250K and no longer be a captain option.

Marshall is the only reasonable Uber premo ruck left, IMO. English has way too many doubts now.

 

[Cotchy9]

Yeah I guess if you’re paying that price you want 100% clarity on role and zero doubt. Bulldogs were underachievers again so something could change there for sure. English whilst a gun around the ground isn’t a particularly great tap ruck

 

[tigs2010]

Also if English doesn't re-sign they'll need to plan ahead.

 

[JDWCE]

Not if that interview with Lobb is anything to go on...

Sounds pretty convinced that Bevo is going to give him more ruck time as it worked well in R24 against us.

We'll end up with a Cameron/Cox, Gawn/Grundy, Nank/Soldo, Xerri/Goldstein, Stanley/Blicavs situation.

If English goes at an average of 98, he'll drop 250K and no longer be a captain option.

Marshall is the only reasonable Uber premo ruck left, IMO. English has way too many doubts now.

Just on this. Do saints look to play someone like Hayes who’s a capable forward and can chop out Marshall in the ruck. Only reason I ask is because we’ve seen how careful saints are with Marshall. I feel like as a team they’re screaming out for someone like Hayes who can take the load off him. King_Steele any light you can shed would be appreciated

 

[JDWCE]

Also if English doesn't re-sign they'll need to plan ahead.

If he doesn’t re-sign then they’ll be spewing they didn’t play Sweet more last year

 

[King_Steele]

Just on this. Do saints look to play someone like Hayes who’s a capable forward and can chop out Marshall in the ruck. Only reason I ask is because we’ve seen how careful saints are with Marshall. I feel like as a team they’re screaming out for someone like Hayes who can take the load off him. King_Steele any light you can shed would be appreciated

If Hayes body can hold up then yes I believe he will play as backup ruck I don’t think we want the likes of Owens/Caminitti as back up tbh

Also reports Caminitti is training down back this pre season. Makes sense if we want Hayes to play

 

[JDWCE]

If Hayes body can hold up then yes I believe he will play as backup ruck I don’t think we want the likes of Owens/Caminitti as back up tbh

Also reports Caminitti is training down back this pre season. Makes sense if we want Hayes to play

Good for my keeper league if Hayes plays

Not ruck related but what’s Owen’s role look like this season?

 

[King_Steele]

Good for my keeper league if Hayes plays

Not ruck related but what’s Owen’s role look like this season?

I’m gonna say fwd with stints on ball as he can be a bit of a bull for us

 

[Cotchy9]

Maybe Gawn and Grundy is the go. Both will be solo, both represent good value. Early byes annoying but can probably work around them, or upgrade one of them if not looking good. If it clicks for both might get close enough to the top of the line

 

[Tex Danger]

The other major difference is if English or Marshall get injured you can put in Gawn or Grundy or anyone you like but if Gawn or especially Grundy you cant get English or Marshall in as easy.

And that when it comes time to upgrade the stepping stone, mids are more likely to have an undervalued premo to trade into (ie bigger pool of potential options and therefore more choice to find value) than in rucks, so even if the player makes less money, they may get you to a better player for less

And Ive never been a set and forget guy in rucks, but I can see the reasons why it’s valid to treat rucks different to other lines

 

[Tex Danger]

It’s unfortunate marshall + english have last bye

If they had 1 before Gawn/grundy you could hope to make the switch at the bye and still only get 1 bye for the season from that position. As it stands your guaranteeing 2

It’s something that makes me lean to English + Grundy rather than Gawn + Grundy. (And Xerri even better for byes and my choice if Grundy goes <85-90 rd 1)

 

[Phar Ace]

I’m gonna say fwd with stints on ball as he can be a bit of a bull for us

Potentially your star player. He has so much upside.

 

[Phar Ace]

It’s unfortunate marshall + english have last bye

If they had 1 before Gawn/grundy you could hope to make the switch at the bye and still only get 1 bye for the season from that position. As it stands your guaranteeing 2

It’s something that makes me lean to English + Grundy rather than Gawn + Grundy. (And Xerri even better for byes and my choice if Grundy goes <85-90 rd 1)

That needs a little bit of perspective though. I see it as more a positive, with the only impact, albeit in unison, that they affect a team just once, AND they have the biggest run of not affecting scores negatively - 14 Round of scores - before they do. You will also have just had 9 trades in three weeks to develop a solution, if one has not been planned for previously.

Bevo talking up some shared Ruck responsible with Lobb is interesting but not alarming:



He's been there done that through the last season anyway. Will it damper English's scoring. Incrementally is
the answer. Rnd 24 Lobb won 15 HO's - English went 99. Round 20 Lobb had another double figure HO game and English scored 153. It's fair to say it is a bit spasmodic. Then you look and it was English's best season - maybe the support helps!

 

[Tex Danger]

That needs a little bit of perspective though. I see it as more a positive, with the only impact, albeit in unison, that they affect a team just once, AND they have the biggest run of not affecting scores negatively - 14 Round of scores - before they do. You will also have just had 9 trades in three weeks to develop a solution, if one has not been planned for previously.

Bevo talking up some shared Ruck responsible with Lobb is interesting but not alarming:

View attachment 1884448

He's been there done that through the last season anyway. Will it dampen English's scoring. Incrementally is
the answer. Rnd 24 Lobb won 15 HO's - English went 99. Round 20 Lobb had another double figure HO game and English scored 153. It's fair to say it is a bit spasmodic. Then you look and it was English's best season - maybe the support helps!

We’re on the same page

i mean it makes starting them more enticing. But if they say the 1st bye it would add weight to the gawn/Grundy options as could still end up with just 1 bye

 

[4tune8]

That needs a little bit of perspective though. I see it as more a positive, with the only impact, albeit in unison, that they affect a team just once, AND they have the biggest run of not affecting scores negatively - 14 Round of scores - before they do. You will also have just had 9 trades in three weeks to develop a solution, if one has not been planned for previously.

Bevo talking up some shared Ruck responsible with Lobb is interesting but not alarming:

View attachment 1884448

He's been there done that through the last season anyway. Will it damper English's scoring. Incrementally is
the answer. Rnd 24 Lobb won 15 HO's - English went 99. Round 20 Lobb had another double figure HO game and English scored 153. It's fair to say it is a bit spasmodic. Then you look and it was English's best season - maybe the support helps!

I don't think that those stats alone tell the full story.

Round 24 was the only time that the ruck duties were shared 50/50 with Lobb being named BOG. English went from an average 85% CBA's to 53% and Lobb went from an average 15% CBA's to 47%.

 

[Barrybran]

I don't think that those stats alone tell the full story.

Round 24 was the only time that the ruck duties were shared 50/50 with Lobb being named BOG. English went from an average 85% CBA's to 53% and Lobb went from an average 15% CBA's to 47%.

View attachment 1884668

Those last two games for English

 

[Catastrophe!]

I don't think that those stats alone tell the full story.

Round 24 was the only time that the ruck duties were shared 50/50 with Lobb being named BOG. English went from an average 85% CBA's to 53% and Lobb went from an average 15% CBA's to 47%.

View attachment 1884668

Beat me to it. Lobb had a lot of hit outs, yes, but not many CBA's prior to Round 24. Once he graduated into the middle, English's CBA's dropped massively - and as a result so did his Fantasy scoring.

1.07 MIL is one thing, but also a shaky captain option too and the obvious Bevo factor - it's just not the sure thing it was for most of last year.

Bottom line, 87% CBA's and 13% in Round 23, that's a chop-out. 53% and 47% in Round 24 - that's sharing the role.

 

[4tune8]

I won't be going there myself, can only afford one of Bont or English and have gone with Bont because of the value in the rucks, Lobb's interview and Bevo's weirdness combined with what happened in that last game solidifies that view.

Those last two games for English

View attachment 1884671

Beat me to it. Lobb had a lot of hit outs, yes, but not many CBA's prior to Round 24. Once he graduated into the middle, English's CBA's dropped massively - and as a result so did his Fantasy scoring.

1.07 MIL is one thing, but also a shaky captain option too and the obvious Bevo factor - it's just not the sure thing it was for most of last year.

Bottom line, 87% CBA's and 13% in Round 23, that's a chop-out. 53% and 47% in Round 24 - that's sharing the role.

 

[Phar Ace]

I don't think that those stats alone tell the full story.

Round 24 was the only time that the ruck duties were shared 50/50 with Lobb being named BOG. English went from an average 85% CBA's to 53% and Lobb went from an average 15% CBA's to 47%.

View attachment 1884668

That's a good deep dive. The main point I was trying to make is every game is different and will likely be so going forward, even with a Bevo prognostication or was it a Lobb-ying.

That said, that was a very good game by Lobb against Geelong where he also had an eq game high 5 centre clearances (English 1) and an eq team high 8 score involvements (English 4). They won at Kardinia Park.

Do we put is down to a little bit of holiday mode and Bevo trying something, or will this become a more regular outcome do you think? Would not surprise me if it is a bit of a Bevoing - ie putting a small rocket up English on the cusp of an English contract negotiation after that massive contract Doggies gave out recently.

 

[Barrybran]

That's a good deep dive. The main point I was trying to make is every game is different and will likely be so going forward, even with a Bevo prognostication or was it a Lobb-ying.

That said, that was a very good game by Lobb against Geelong where he also had an eq game high 5 centre clearances (English 1) and an eq team high 8 score involvements (English 4). They won at Kardinia Park.

Do we put is down to a little bit of holiday mode and Bevo trying something, or will this become a more regular outcome do you think? Would not surprise me if it is a bit of a Bevoing - ie putting a small rocket up English on the cusp of an English contract negotiation after that massive contract Doggies gave out recently.

Bevo is going to want to win. English's contact is the last of his worries.

 

[4tune8]

That's a good deep dive. The main point I was trying to make is every game is different and will likely be so going forward, even with a Bevo prognostication. That said, that was a very good game by Lobb against Geelong where he also had an eq game high 5 centre clearances (English 1) and an eq team high 8 score involvements (English 4). They won at Kardinia Park.

Do we put is down to a little bit of holiday mode and Bevo trying something, or will this become a more regular outcome do you think? Would not surprise me if it is a bit of a Bevoing - ie putting a small rocket up English on the cusp of an English contract negotiation after that massive contract Doggies gave out recently.

100% agree, every game is different, that's the trouble, when is Bevo likely to pull that 50/50 move? Or could it be 60/40 or a 70/30 split? I think that last game was definitely Bevo trying something, and it worked, he's not completely stupid and would see the merit of that strategy being successful, maybe dependent on matchups, but the simple fact of the matter is that it will more than likely happen again, particularly given Lobb's comments in that last interview. That level of uncertainty is a huge red flag for a player priced at $1.07M and takes away the ability to use him as a C option with confidence.

 

[Balsam]

100% agree, every game is different, that's the trouble, when is Bevo likely to pull that 50/50 move? Or could it be 60/40 or a 70/30 split? I think that last game was definitely Bevo trying something, and it worked, he's not completely stupid and would see the merit of that strategy being successful, maybe dependent on matchups, but the simple fact of the matter is that it will more than likely happen again, particularly given Lobb's comments in that last interview. That level of uncertainty is a huge red flag for a player priced at $1.07M and takes away the ability to use him as a C option with confidence.

The other point was that FA stat for English in R24...4 FA when he averaged under 1.5 for the rest of the season. Was that just an aberration, or could it have been because he wasn't in the ruck, and therefore wasn't as sure of what he was doing?

 

[Phar Ace]

Bevo is going to want to win. English's contact is the last of his worries.

Any sort of falling out with Bevo is a wild and dangerous thing, no matter how minor it may first appear.

 

[Coasters7]

Maybe Gawn and Grundy is the go. Both will be solo, both represent good value. Early byes annoying but can probably work around them, or upgrade one of them if not looking good. If it clicks for both might get close enough to the top of the line

Told myself I wouldn’t take risks in the ruck after not starting English last year but Gawn/Grundy is too tempting and opens up the rest of the field. For 2 players that were the clear R1 and R2 only two seasons ago, when playing solo, it’s hard to pass up

 

[happy_eagle]

I think its okay to take a risk in the rucks, but as soon as it doesnt come off you just need to go straight to the top.

For example those that started with Xerri last year, should have traded him to Marshall/English after R1 when he got injured (even if it meant culling a premium in another line). Where the ruck strategy becomes dangerous is if you go mid price hopping when one mid pricer fails.